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Discussion in 'Gen 6 Side Metagames' started by sulcata, Jun 24, 2014.
Just need to mention Mega Eye is banned, but I agree that Mandibuzz is a must in a good monodark
non mega sableye is still good in the core I mentioned, as with prankster taunt and willo its still good (why its S rank) it can even run confide to help with special attackers.
There are certain points to ponder before you start posting in the viability rankings. I don't suppose you have the gone through the rankings as a whole.
MegaZardY is banned, so is Mega Sableye.
Mega Sableye was suspected a few months ago and ZardY has been banned ever since Drought and Drizzle got banned since the start of Gen 6.
For Gallade [from B to A] I think it's possible IMO. It can run SD+LUM, AV, bulk up variants and the band version which is pretty cool. It also saves you mega slot at times. And is a very good fighting type Mon for destroying dark/steel types when you have Mega Garde as the mega. IMO it should get A rank mostly because of it's AV set e.e but I'll leave more to discussing this.
Luxray? Irdk :v
@Joyverse I have a few replays of the guy who persuaded me luxray was good on electric.
I know this is PS with a different banlist and such, but the meta is largely the same, and I believe luxray to be good on PS and PO.
Mega Aggron is actually much better on Steel than I thought.
Aggron (M) @ Aggronite
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Heavy Slam
- Low Kick
It just fills in all the gaps Skarmory couldn't on my team. Dealing with things like mixed Garchomp, Taunt Gliscor, etc. It's so much less passive than Skarm was on my team, actually threatening things out. Roar isn't used very often admittedly, but it's a nice second look to DD users like SubDD Mega Gyarados. I couldn't find any particular threats that were worth investing attack or defense differently, but that doesn't mean the EV spread is ideal.
I think this should move up to A rank at least.
I haven't really seen any good Steel teams with Klefki. Move it down to B rank maybe?
I'm still not convinced on moving Clefable. It seems way to passive for the most common Fairy archetype, Screens&Drum. Rocks aren't that important to Fairy, or at least I don't think they are. It just seems to concede way too much momentum to the opponent. Also, it should never be 6-0'ing any half decent Steel team played by anyone who knows what they're doing :v
I agree with Mandibuzz to S on Dark. I disagree with moving Mega Absol and Mega Houndoom down. They're pretty viable mixed attackers on Dark.
I think saying Mew can run every set in the game as reason to move it up is a bit silly. It only runs 1-2 sets. With that said I think its defensive sets are good enough to justify moving it to S. As for gallade, idk.
Luxray, yes. Better than Electivire lol. There's usually an awkward spot on Electric teams where adding anything else feels redundant. Trick isn't super reliable for getting rid of Chansey and Blissey, so Luxray can be a pretty solid option. For things like Porygon2 I'd much rather rely on SubCM Raikou though.
Mega aggron in A is fine for me, seen you playing it and it can be a good mega since no Megagross, good bulk and good ability
Klefki never been that useful on Steel as you have much better to cover weaknesses, much better to hazard stack with semi recovery ( Ferro )
I agree with the rest
Now that Volcanion is usable, I was thinking where to put it.
I believe that A Rank in Fire sounds nice, even though it has the dumb sr weakness, given that it has water absorb and a very good move in the form of Steam Eruption.
As for Water, I am not really sure. Having Fire STAB versus Grass types is a boon but grass is not a very common type to maybe B or C?
I still haven't tested it in both Mono so i'm not gonna add it in any rank yet. Water resist means a lot for Monofire, as it pairs well with Talonflame to reduce some Keldeo demolition, although it will find issues with the likes of Mega Gyarados. I guess it's very viable in Water since scarf Flamethrower deals pretty much with most Monograss, which was at the moment a big issue for Monowater, it has the power to burn Venusaur and I've been testing a Rest Talk set that can pretty much counter Mega Gardevoir and Mega Venusaur
232 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 136+ SpD Volcanion: 97-114 (26.6 - 31.3%) -- 22.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
232 SpA Mega Gardevoir Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 116 Def Volcanion: 120-142 (32.9 - 39%) -- 11.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 136+ SpD Volcanion: 133-157 (36.5 - 43.1%) -- 98.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Volcanion Steam Eruption vs. 16 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gardevoir: 115-136 (40.9 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Volcanion Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 372-444 (105.6 - 126.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 116 Def Volcanion: 260-308 (71.4 - 84.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Volcanion Steam Eruption vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Excadrill: 420-494 (116.3 - 136.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 116 Def Volcanion: 276-326 (75.8 - 89.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Volcanion Steam Eruption vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 356-422 (111.5 - 132.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
It is possible to run both fire blast or Flamthrower but I personally dislike when I miss all Fire blast so i went with Flamethrower. Despite the fact it's Ground and Rock Weak, you can pair it with a lot of nice Pokemon in Monowater such as Keldeo, Gyarados so you can some offensive pressure on the opponent team. Given that, in theory, I think that Volcanion can fit very nicely in Monowater. Alternatively, Roar and Toxic are decent options but with Mono being very offensive oriented you'll be very limited in time to actually use them. Personally, I can imagine Volcanion sit in A rank in Monowater.
I have no idea for Fire how it will work, will it run scarf/specs/LO/Defensive sets (?) so i'll abstain for now
Here is my set
Volcanion @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 116 Def / 136 SDef / 8 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Steam Eruption
- Sleep Talk
No, Defensive Volcan is pretty ass in MonoFire, however both specs and scarf are good options. I mostly run Overheat/Steam/Sludge (for Azu)/Focus Blast or Sleep Talk (fuck sleep) LO might be good too but haven't really tried it. As for scarf, there also comes the slight problem that you can't outspeed Aerodactyl which sucks :/ (393 at timid vs. 394 ) But A is where is should be.
I'll soon make these as tables. If you want to move Volcanion into a tier or you believe something should move say now and why ~
Volcanion for a rank in fire. Check against water types, has sludge wave for azu, hp grass/sbeam for waters otherwise. Specs Steam/Fire blast just cripples any given team with sheer force+burns. LO is also fun to use given the low speed. IDK for water :x
- Ground: Mega Camerupt is far better than D. Deserves at least B Rank.
- Electric: Zapdos(B) and Galvantula(S) need to swap ranks. Mega Ampharos/Magnezone need a bump to A Rank.
- Ice: Avalugg is a staple, S Rank. Walrein and Lapras both need a bump +1(Wal->A, Lapras->B). Weavile or Mamo bump to S Rank.
- Dragon: Flygon/Noivern drop to C/D. Dragalge bump to B.
- Dark: Mandibuzz is pretty much staple, bump to S Rank.
Other less notable change's I'd make in there, but nothing as important as the above listed.
I agree, will also finish to turn everything into tables it's just a bit long :v
who put galv in S lol
I fail to see how Avalugg actually does anything for ice aside from "spin good, hazard bad". Keeping rocks and hazards off is a losing battle for most types, let alone ice. Avalugg in general just seems to fall completely flat in my experience, meshing awkwardly with the more offensive members of ice.
Galv was S because for a long moment Web electric was the best strategy: galv+defiant thundy+mane etc which pushed it back in the time to be S rank. Not that it's bad but I agree with B
it was never a good strategy, people just insisted insist on using it :(
Avalugg is a staple defensive wall/pivot, and ice just doesn't win if dealing with SR.
I personally also dislike Avalugg because of its spe def and speed. I found that Articuno did more job as it has defog and thus you won't fear the Spin Blocker. Avalugg will get hard walled by so many spin blocker such as Aegislash, Jellicent, Sableye, Spiritomb that it will a lot of time fail to spin or lose too many hp to the point it can't do its job. Not to mention it's set up bait to many pokemons and will rely on some gimmick sets such as Custap Berry to try spinning.
I really can't see Avalugg being a good pokemon for these reasons
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