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Genesect Test-Ban / Vote + Ladder Reset

Discussion in 'Gen 6 Discussion' started by Finchinator, Jul 2, 2014.

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  1. Finchinator

    Finchinator Addicted and just can't get enough

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    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    If you wish to partake in this vote, I advise reading the entire post from top to bottom as missing out on a little detail could mislead you or provoke a mistake in submission of a vote in some way, shape, or form. In order to keep this process going strong, your cooperation and effort is necessary.

    Salutations everyone. After having a discussion with my colleagues, @Sinclair and @Hannah, it's became increasingly evident that Genesect is still a controversial pokemon in the Pokemon Online Overused metagame. Furthermore, in order to not have another Genesect Suspect Discussion, which would be contradictory and wasteful, we are going to take a different approach on the matter this time around. The following will occur:
    • The XY Overused Ladder will be reset (all ladder players that currently have high peaks should take screenshots before it's too late)
    • Users interested in partaking in a vote will have approximately ten days to reach a ranking of 1450 (all subject to change as time passes)
    • People with a sufficient ranking will be able to vote on banning or not banning Genesect from OU, but every vote must be accompanied with a paragraph justifying their vote that will be sent to all of the tier leaders. HOWEVER, there will be a post (or entirely separate thread) for voting and submitting votes when the time comes; this will be explaining the entire process, so don't do anything until the time is up, you have the required ladder score, and that post and/or thread is up
    • The three tier leaders will go through the votes we received and accept ones that have sufficient reasoning. The side (ban or no ban) with the majority will dictate what is done to Genesect in the future of PO's XY OU tier.

    A couple extra things that I shall note here are:
    • It would be appreciated if @Crystal Moogle (or another owner) could reset the XY OU ladder some point during July Third as I'd like to give everyone one last day to screenshot or do whatever they wish on the old ladder (thanks in advanced)
    • Anything enumerated above is subject to change by myself or any other tier leader
    • The likely deadline for laddering to the required amount is the 13th of July
    • Any questions should be directed to any tier leader of XY OU, including myself, via Forum or Server PM
    • Having a forum account is mandatory to partake. In addition, you may not be banned with any account of yours on the Pokemon Online Server or Forums
    • Special Application being a method of voting or not is still being discussed among the auth in a private forum and I will update this or another post when that decision is made

    That is all for now~
     
  2. Finchinator

    Finchinator Addicted and just can't get enough

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    Update time.

    First and foremost, the ladder score needed to vote will be: 1400. It was discussed briefly and based on the ladder's current state, it was deemed that 1400 would be sufficient.

    Secondly, special applications for votes will be allowed. However, they, like all other votes, will need to have sufficient justification of their vote that the tier leaders need to approve.

    Third of all, the ladder will be screened at around 11pm EST on Sunday the 13th of July. You'll have had 10-11 days since the reset and this is enough time, so I expect no complaints on this and with special applications now being allowed, it shouldn't matter regardless as long as you can give good reasoning.

    Finally, note that votes will not be accepted until I or another tier leader post the ladder screenshots; this includes special applications. Once the screenshot is posted, the following procedure will be followed for non-special applicant (regular) votes: First, claim your alt in the appropriate thread (probably this one) and then, PM (start a conversation with) all tier leaders stating your vote on Genesect (Ban/No ban) alongside a paragraph of logical and acceptable reasoning (this is where some voters may get weeded out for insufficient justification of their vote). For special applicants, they have to PM the tier leaders stating that it's a special app, saying why they couldn't get reqs, and then say their vote alongside a paragraph of logical and acceptable reasoning.

    Other miscellaneous information
    • All votes must be sent in with-in three days of when the ladder screenshot is posted (giving you until roughly 11pm EST on Wednesday July 16th to send in your vote).
    • Your "paragraph" on Genesect should be about four to six sentences long, but it's ok to run slightly longer or shorter as long as you get your point across and don't BS it too badly.
    • Ask any tier leader questions on this entire process via forum PM (or server PM if you see them there).
    • You need a forum account to partake in this vote.
    • Do NOT hassle Hanah, Sinclair, or myself for the result of the vote else your vote will be disqualified and you may face punishments. Trust me, we will be working on reading all of your paragraphs and accepting / rejecting them while tallying up the accepted votes.
    • Genesect needs a majority vote for either side to go through (in the result of a tie, the tier leaders will discuss it).
    • USE COMMON SENSE PLEASE
     
    Liarliarpantsonfire likes this.
  3. Finchinator

    Finchinator Addicted and just can't get enough

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    Salutations once again. It is finally time for the vote to occur.

    The following procedure must be followed for regular applicants:
    • Claim any and all alts you have above 1400 on the ladder which will be screened below. If you don't have any alts above 1400 and you aren't a moderator, but you post, you will be infracted.
    • Do not post your vote in this thread, nor your paragraph. However, send your vote to @Finchinator (me), @Hannah, and @Sinclair alongside a paragraph of reasoning behind your vote via forum PM (or conversation). To make it entirely clear, you can vote the following options: Ban Genesect or Do Not Ban Genesect. For information on the paragraphs and anything else on this step, read the last two posts (specifically post #2).
    • You have from when I post this until three days after (giving you until late Wednesday, July 16th EST).
    • Paragraphs with insufficient reasoning may be rejected.
    The following procedure must be followed for special applicants:
    • Send a forum PM (or conversation) to @Finchinator (me), @Hannah, and @Sinclair with your vote (Ban or No Ban), a paragraph of reasoning (see above posts for information on that), and a brief explanation of why you weren't able to obtain reqs on the ladder ("I was lazy" will not suffice).
    • You have from when I post until three days after (giving you until late Wednesday, July 16th EST).
    • Paragraphs and explanations with insufficient reasoning may be rejected.
    • Be sure to make reference to any alts you had on this ladder or the old ladder that were decently high in your explanation that can be used to attest for your level of play and make up for not reaching reqs now.
    • Note that the reasoning for this must be well thought out and of higher quality than reasoning for non-special apps as they had to ladder high enough while you haven't, so we'll expect more now to compensate.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Claiming alts can be done by simply posting which alts belong to you (we will have them IP checked). Posting the numerical and ladder ranking alongside this is optional.
     
  4. Finchinator

    Finchinator Addicted and just can't get enough

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    Claiming Faye Reagan (#15, 1452 points)
     
  5. meeps

    meeps Well-Known Member

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    meeps
    i am none other than legendary CASEDVICTORYSLAYER71 (#30, 1408 points)
     
    sulcata and Finchinator like this.
  6. - Lucario -

    - Lucario - Member

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    Claiming - Lucari0 - (#47, 1400 points)
     
  7. Sinclair

    Sinclair Call me the Pokemon Demigod

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    Claiming Sasquatch (#22, 1429)
     
  8. Plaguemaw

    Plaguemaw New Member

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    Claiming Alogranola (#13, 1457 points)
     
  9. Splashified

    Splashified New Member

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    Claiming Crafty (#11, 1463 points)
     
  10. Diz

    Diz God Left Me Unfinished

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    Claiming Diz (#36, 1403 points)
     
  11. Zamrock

    Zamrock - OUTL

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    Claiming [IMP]Master (#35, 1403 ptz)
     
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  12. MUMU

    MUMU Just a random Haxer nOOb

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    Claiming Keep Genesect (#24, 1426 points)
     
  13. MetalGross

    MetalGross gems…

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    claiming GERM17NY (#10, 1465), Enjoy The Ride (#37, 1402)and MetalGross (#33, 1404)
     
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  14. Luck>Skill

    Luck>Skill Well-Known Member

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    #34 Aurostox 1407 points
     
  15. Lord Outrage

    Lord Outrage Banned

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    Claiming #43 [TR]Executive Archer
     
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  16. ZodiaK

    ZodiaK Get the fuck off my porch

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    #5 | .ZodiaK | 1503
     
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  17. Metta World Peace

    Metta World Peace Member

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    #44 Airman 1400 points
     
  18. 龙啸九天

    龙啸九天 New Member

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    数独, #34
     
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  19. Arvind

    Arvind New Member

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    Claiming [IMP]Arvind (#29, 1408)
     
  20. Sinclair

    Sinclair Call me the Pokemon Demigod

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    Reminder to send in your paragraphs!
    You have the rest of today and tomorrow to finish up.
     
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  21. Just Do It

    Just Do It No one cares

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    Claiming [TR]Superior. (#32, 1406 points)
     
  22. J0RIS

    J0RIS New Member

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    J0RIS(1468) [IMP]J0RIS(1465)
     
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  23. hiphiphooray

    hiphiphooray New Member

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    Claiming [TR]Hiphiphooray (#39, 1401 points).
     
  24. Vioner

    Vioner New Member

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    Claiming 「WM」√ionєя (#27, 1413) and 「WM」Wtf is Stall? (#16, 1451)
     
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  25. Finchinator

    Finchinator Addicted and just can't get enough

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    Hi.

    Remember, today is the last day to submit your vote AND you have to send your vote to all three tier leaders (Hannah, Sinclair, and I). I have received three votes that were only addressed to myself over the past couple days and these won't be accepted if you don't send then to my two colleagues prior to the deadline.
     
    Liarliarpantsonfire likes this.
  26. Sinclair

    Sinclair Call me the Pokemon Demigod

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    The voting phase is now over.
    Do not send us anymore paragraphs as they will be ignored.
     
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  27. Finchinator

    Finchinator Addicted and just can't get enough

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    After reviewing the votes submitted with Hanah and Sinclair, the amount of pro-ban votes accepted was higher than the amount of anti-ban votes accepted. Furthermore, Genesect is now banned from XY Overused.

    Expect a post in the near future that has all of the paragraphs for the votes, but here is the ending tally of accepted votes: Ban - 7 (Valentine, Meeps, Luck>Skill, Finch, Sinclair, Metalgross, MewtwoHidden) / No Ban - 3 (MUMU, Pokemoniseasy, Diz)

     
  28. Finchinator

    Finchinator Addicted and just can't get enough

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    Accepted Votes
    Pro-Ban

    Valentine
    Hey, i didn't meet reqs, but I think I should be able to vote. I've been busy with wcop over on Smogon, getting things together for POCL, and IRL work. Anyways, Gene is really unhealthy for the meta, there's really no reason not to run it, the Band set can clean up offense so well it's ridiculous. The combination of it's versatility and power make it very hard to play around, and over centralizes the meta. It has no real counters, and I'd like to include my vote to do what I can do ban it.
    Meepsvictory
    the main selling points of genesect's impact on the metagame is its coverage along with access to u-turn, and how dangerous it is with an appropriate download boost. genesect's coverage allows it to run a multitude of sets notably band, special scarf, and mixed lo/ebelt, allowing it to damage most of the tier with the proper set bar heatran. obviously genesect cant run all these sets and moves at the same time, but its coverage coupled with u-turn (a staple on all genesect sets) makes it extremely unpredictable, mispredicting the set genesect may be running or the move it may use may easily result in the loss of a pokemon. u-turn also helps gain momentum on the pokemon which may check/counter the set genesect is running as genesect forces switches easily luring in checks/counters and switching into a pokemon which does handle genesect's checks/counters. while getting the appropriate download boost may seem situational, it really isnt. band genesect can gain attack boost from pokemon like tyranitar, greninja, zard-y, dragonite, azumarill, assault vest azumarill, mega gyarados, latios, etc and threaten to ohko all of them with either u-turn, iron head, or extremespeed after rocks damage, more specially oriented sets gain special attack boost from pokemon like scizor, mawile, phys def ferrothorn, gliscor, mandibuzz, lando-t, pinsir, etc and threaten to ohko with appropriate coverage moves, and mixed sets can take advantage of either boost and harm opposing teams. overall genesect's unpredictability allowing it to threaten nearly all of the tier with the appropriate set makes me vote ban
    Luck>Skill
    hello frens, here's my paragraph about Gene, I posted plenty into the suspect thread so I'll just try to keep it as short as possible

    I firmly believe that Genesect should be banned from the XY OU tier, its combination of speed, power and typing is too much for it to be an healthy force of the metagame

    Steel + Bug offensively isn't that bad of a typing, hitting a lot of pokes for neutral damage in the OU tier, only steel and fire resist both iirc, + random combos like water flying and others, the Dark typing buff of this gen didn't really "nerf" genesect as much, sure, it can't come into dark types as easly as it used to, but the increased amount of dark typed mons in OU due to the buff actually helped Genesect, giving him more targets to use U-Turn on

    Specs, CB (or LO, but its basically the same, except I find CB superior), Belt are the sets I'd look into if I had to find a reason for Gene to be overpowered for the OU tier, the Scarf set doesn't have much to do with its brokeness outside of its decent speed, since its outclassed by a lot of stuff

    CB / LO physical sets are hard to deal with: U-Turn coupled with SR generally means you can only switch into it so much before your mons gets worn down, so basically it's either "Heatran, Skarmory or bust" since Heatran is the only mon that can come in on U-Turns without taking way too much damage, but Skarmory isn't that safe of a switchin because of Gene's incredible mixed offensive capabilities, while HP Ground is seldom used, and it doesn't even KO Tran so I wouldn't even consider it

    Heatran being the only switch-in to all 3 of the sets, coupled with Genesect's incredible offensive stats (+Download which is actually fucking amazing), and Heatran being super easy to wear down because of no recovery makes Genesect one hell of a force to be reckoned with

    Heatran is easy to wear down with Tbolt btw, also generally Heatran has more to do on a team other than just walling Genesect
    Sinclair
    Genesect has very high unpredictability because it can run so many sets effectively; BandSect, Mix Life Orb or Ebelt, Scarf, Sash, and one could even argue that Specs is viable(Shift Gear is an option as well as Rock Polish, but they aren't very effective in the metagame). Being able to run about 4-5 different sets effectively combined with base 120 att/spatt, decent speed tier, and overlooked bulk with 95 base defenses. Also, with its amazing movepool as well as having a new move to abuse with the sash/band/mix lo sets in ExtremeSpeed, Genesect becomes very dangerous and can be very difficult to prepare for unless you have a sure fire counter usually in Heatran. However even using HP Ground is a viable option because at +1 with a life orb/expert belt it can ohko Sp.Def Heatran after rocks. With all of this being said, Genesect should be banned from XY OU.
    Finchinator
    Genesect is a monster in XY OU. Although it has a universal check in Heatran and a couple more checks that vary by set, the tier's overall inability to switch-into and/or check Genesect is noteworthy, specifically before the set is revealed. The reasons for Genesect's achieving the aforementioned status in the metagame would have to be that its sets aren't exactly similar - the only constant being u-turn and Genesect can run all of these different sets effectively (Band, Phys/Spec Scarf, LO Phys/Spec Based, etc.). While the standard CB set has a massive attack and can be walled only by some of the better physical walls, Heatran, and another pokemon or two that have the appropriate typing, the special oriented sets defeat all of these pokemon bar Heatran, the one consistent counter. To look at it from the other side of the spectrum, a special based set, such as special based scarf gene, can be walled by a special wall like Chansey easily, but switch it into a CB U-turn or Iron head and it's taking significant damage, especially if you add on hazards/residuals and the fact that u-turn then allows you to go out to another pokemon to finish Chansey. Furthermore, due to the effect it has on the metagame (that can be summed up as unpredictability, versatility, etc.), Genesect only has one true counter in Heatran and is broken in XY OU.
    MetalGross
    Genesect is broken -> Ban

    Genesect is incredibly powerful. It's Choice Band and LO set are incredibly hard to stop, even if you don't get the 'right' boost. There are also some other sets (Scarf, Rock Polish) but those are not the problem, even though they help Genesect's unpredictability. It has a great typing, allowing it to switch into many offensive and defensive pokemon and get all the momentum to your side with a strong Banded U-Turn or it can just go on a rampage with its Mixed LO set, which most of the time still carries U-Turn! Another crucial factor to Genesect being broken is that it gets ExtremeSpeed now, making even revenge killing (if you get the shot because it'll be U-Turning most of the time) nigh impossible. Overall, using Genesect gives you a clear advantage and gives you a chance to turn a game around because of its ability to grab momentum, and no other pokemon is even close to be as good as it as Genesect, which leads me to believe it is broken.
    MewtwoHidden
    Genesect is indeed a controversial Pokemon for both this generation and the last generation. It has a great degree of versatility, being able to run many different sets to great effect; such as Choice Banded, Life Orb, Sashed, and Physically and Specially based Choice Scarfed sets. Along with a correct Download boost, hardly anything can safelyswitch in on it, even if its set is revealed. The only Pokemon used commonly in the XY OU tier that can generally switch in is Heatran, but even the (rare) Hidden Power [Ground] can 2hko Heatran. This is bad enough, but it doesnt end there; Genesect can abuse the lack of safe switch-ins and U-Turn to gain momentum as the person facing it has to choose whether to risk losing a Pokemon, or risk allowing to put themself in a difficult position. New additions to Genesect's movepool make it even more threatening than last generation are: Extremespeed, a big threat from the Choice Band or Life Orb sets, and Blaze Kick, a thorn in the side of Steel types not named Heatran. My stance, due to restricting play (and teambuilding), lack of counters, and that a metagame without genesect is healthier in my opinion (test-banned gene meta and smogons meta) is to ban genesect.

    didnt get reqs because ive been trying to learn Italian as well as reading for a summer reading school project and uucl/mafia work.

    Anti-Ban

    MUMU
    My Vote on Genesect is Do Not Ban Genesect.

    Its ability Download can easily be manipulated by simple ev ing, and is somewhat unreliable anyway. The common fire types in the Metagame such as Heatran, Charizard etc can check it fairly well if not countering it quite solidly. Its bulk is average, allowing it to be knocked out quite easily by strong attacks and prevents it from switching in, sometimes even on resisted attacks. It has decent speed, however, it fails to out-speed a considerable amount of offensive Pokemon such as Landorus-I, Garchomp and everything faster, with most easily taking an Extreme Speed,allowing it to be out sped and knocked out easily. It also suffers from four move slot syndrome, always preventing it from covering certain Pokemon, thus allowing the bulkier teams that it can out speed to cover all of its common sets fairly comfortably. Lastly, it lacks recovery, making it easy to wear out by passive damage such as hazards.
    Pokemoniseasy
    Hi, so my alt decayed when Finchinator took the screenshot at 11 pm EST July 13th so I had to ladder to get rid of the decay, however my battle lasted a bit longer than 11 pm EST and was not included in the screenshot.http://puu.sh/ac2Vs/e3a38b4bf2.png Also I have gotten 1560 in XY OU earlier only having the screenshot of 1516 http://puu.sh/a42OB/f0c9d6a3f4.png and also getting 1610 in BW2 having the screenshot of 1571.http://puu.sh/acQqY/d07569cd14.png

    Genesect Paragraph

    Genesect is not at all broken this metagame unlike it was in BW2 due to the fact this metagame has changed drastically. This metagame is mostly hazard base and since Genesect is a prominent U-Turn user it wear's Genesect very easily. Many top tier threats keep Genesect in check such as Talonflame, Heatran, Charizard X, Aegislash, Venusaur as well as not commonly used threats such as Zapdos, Chandelure,and, Volcarona. Due to the presence of HO as well as stall this generation Genesect is not as strong as it used to be it gets worn down easier. Also with the steel nerf Genesect is now weak to Ghost and Dark moves and with Priority becoming a staple in the metagame Genesect doesn't appreciate taking hit's with 71 hp / 95 defenses. Overall Genesect is not ban worthy due to the hazard based metagame, threats keeping Genesect at bay and also the huge Steel nerf that Genesect received in this new generation.
    Genesect Vote:UnBan
    Diz
    I dont think Genesect should be banned from the ou tier

    While Genesect is truly a threat in the tier, it does have its drawbacks, plenty of checks and counters, and is limited to offensive roles, reducing its versatility. All of these factors making Genesect not broken in the ou metagame. Checks and counters for Genesect include, but is not limited to: Aegislash, Charizard x/y, Keldeo, Heatran, Thundurus, Talonflame, Skarmory, Scizor, Rotom-H, Jellicent and Volcarona. These pokemon listed are also not limited to one playstyle, and are completely viable, meaning genesect has a plethora of viable checks and counters. Genesect also has some drawbacks, mainly its 99 base speed. This means it can get outrun by anything with 100 base speed or more. this includes Gengar, Greninja, Garchomp, Keldeo, Latios and Latias, and Landorus. This means they have to run either a choice scarf or a choice band with extreme speed to compensate for its speed. Its other drawback is its ability download, which is unreliable in the way that it is in control of the opponent and how they assigned their evs. It is also susceptible to wear down throughout the match since it is effected by Stealth Rocks and Spikes. It also has lackluster bulk, and a typing that is able to be dealt with, especially since the 6th gen steel nerf. Lastly, it lacks playstyle versatility. It is used offensively, and cant run a defensive set or support set like other threats in the tier like Aegislash, Charizard X, Scizor, Gyarados and Landorus T. Now while Genesect is a threat in the OU tier, it does not mean it is in any way broken due to its many checks and counters, its lack of versatility and its drawbacks due to its speed, typing, and ability. I say keep Genesect in OU.

    He then sent this as a follow-up PM:
    "I dont think Genesect should be banned from the ou tier

    While Genesect is truly a threat in the tier, it does have its drawbacks, plenty of checks and counters. All of these factors making Genesect not broken in the ou metagame. Checks and counters for Genesect include, but is not limited to: Aegislash, Charizard x, Charizard y, Keldeo, Heatran, Thundurus, Talonflame, Skarmory, Scizor, Rotom-H, Jellicent and Volcarona. Genesect also has some drawbacks, mainly its 99 base speed. This means it can get outrun by anything with 100 base speed or more. Its other drawback is its ability download, which is unreliable in the way that it is in control of the opponent and how they assigned their evs. It is also susceptible to wear down throughout the match since it is effected by Stealth Rocks and Spikes. Now while Genesect is a threat in the OU tier, it does not mean it is in any way broken due to its many checks and counters and its drawbacks due to its speed, and ability. I say keep Genesect in OU.

    (Edited version) just to hit the key points"

    Rejected Votes
    Pro-Ban

    Zamrock
    Ban
    I just don't like the fact that this mon gets a +1 boost everytime it comes in, for instance if it's a banded set, the atk of this monster reaches to above 700, making STAB U-turn and Iron Head incredibly dangerous for teams w/o Heatrans or any lack of Fire types, while also breaking stall as if they're useless. The part where it's scarf set can outspeed anything w/ a less Based Power 100 Speed stat makes teambuilding more complex than it should be (running scarf mew w/ fire blast, scarf celebi w/ HP fire, etc.), no need to run stuff like this to hurt your team. The coverage of BoltBeamFire, STAB Bug Buzz to go thru Subs, U-turning momentum, and Banded Xspeed makes it a different opponent to deal w/, mainly because you have to try and coverage EVERY set this mechanical bug obtains.

    No need to bitch about it, I can still beat it whether banned or not. This is just my opinion I believe made Genesect suspect. Too strong, send it to ubers plz.
    - Lucario -
    Ban Genesect
    Genesect should be banned this generation for the same reason it was banned last generation: its ability to get a free boost to one of its offenses just for switching in, and it's hard to know the moveset from turn one. It also gained powerful priority with Extremespeed which does a ton of damage with a choice band and a Download boost. It also gained one of the best boosting moves in the game with Shift Gear which allows Genesect to get to +2 attack and speed in just one turn with a Download boost. The only viable hard counters are Heatran and Rotom-H ( although max defense Rotom-H is 2HKOed by +1 choice band Extremespeed ) and checking it is very hard since it can boost its speed with choice scarf and Shift Gear and it can escape with a powerful U-turn. Using U-Turn also gives the battle momentum allowing the side with Genesect to have a major advantage. Because of all of these traits, Genesect is over-centralizing and should be banned from OU.
    Executive Archer
    I favor a genesect BAN because:
    1)Amazing move pool special and physical:energy ball/giga drain,ice beam,flamethrower,thunderbolt,bug buzz,... and U turn,extreme speed,iron head... So you are really never safe when you switch on it unless you have heatran(expert belt HP ground?),rotom-H(best counter not very ou viable),bulky char-x(to a certain point).
    2)Download ability if used well by a decent player can finish teams.specially the banded set with 778 attack if it gets a +1,it's Extreme speed is even more powerful than life orb arceus normal in ubers so it can clean teams even with pokes at 80 and 90% without being able to touch it since extreme speed has a +2 priority.
    3)each set of genesect has different counters but sometimes till you find out if its choiced or EB or whatever you might lose a poke to its amazing movepool and coverage as well as the most powerful priority to clean up.
    龙啸九天
    Genesect is known for its flexible usages, traditional scarf ut+3 special moves, choice band physical set, etc. Its relatively high base atk & spa stats, along with download ability, enables genesect to produce strong damage output in the current OU tier. Despite its apparent flaw in speed, genesect has moves such as Shift Gear and rock polish to outspeed most high speed offensive pm; what’s more, with a choice band extreme speed set, genesect can easily finish a sweep against common offensive team. Given that any type of genesect has its blind spot in coverage, as mentioned in the beginning, however, it is very difficult counter genesect due to its flexibility. Take heatran for example, which counters most common genesects, genesect can still break through heatran with water techno blast. To sum up, I consider genesect too strong for OU tier due to its capability to produce high damage and its flexibility in usages. Therefore, I vote for banning genesect from XY OU tier.
    Metta World Peace
    Honestly I've went back and forth on my vote, but in the end I think banning Genesect is what's best for the tier. Genesect's greatest strength lies in its unrivaled ability to generate momentum for its team. It is able to come in, force a mon out, and spam U-Turn with impunity. On top of this, Genesect has a myriad of viable sets available (Scarf, CB, Exp. Belt, Rock Polish LO, Shift Gear, etc) and, against a well-played Genesect, it is difficult to determine the opposing set without losing a mon or at least taking heavy damage. Even after you know what set Genesect is running, it's not as if any of them are gimmicks. While Genesect does have "counters," nothing counters U-Turn, and Genesect can also easily could be running a coverage move to beat almost every mon. At the very least, Genesect's ability to spam U-Turn without consequence is extremely toxic for the metagame. It is mindless and eliminates a lot of prediction. In the hands of a skilled player, Genesect is simply too good for OU and deserves to be banned.

    Anti-Ban

    Rage.
    Whydidn't I reach 1400: idk, i concentrated mostly on UU instead of OU, so i didn't ladder much in OU.
    Why should I be able to vote: Because I peaked high on XY OU earlier (april 2014):http://www.directupload.net/file/d/3684/lxkevazi_gif.htm
    My vote: Genesect should stay in XY OU, because there are many bug resists in OU, taking multiple U-turns easily. Keldeo, Aegislash, Talonflame, Heatran and Azumarill are just some examples. Genesect can't afford to overpredict the switches too often, like against Keldeo, going for Thunderbolt and running into Charizard X after the kill, but also against other U-turn switchins, e.g. Aegislash, Thunderbolt doesn't deal much damage and even gives the opponent the complete momentum. Even for the Banded Set, this is a problem, because a well-prepared OU team won't let Genesect sweep with Extremespeed. There are many things surviving two +1 bandspeeds easily by resisting them and abusing Gene for free momentum. U-turn Genesect really suffers from Stealth Rock because it switches in and out pretty often. If there are Spikes up, too, it is like instant death for it, since DeoSharp is quite common (usage goes back due to the Deo-D+S ban on smogon, but still a very strong playstyle). Unpredictability is an overrated aspect in my opinion, because Aegislash is a solid check against almost every set (barring +1 LO/Specs Flamethrower), Keldeo, Charizards, Heatran, Talonflame and many others have a good advantage against it. And after once switching on it, you mostly know Genesect's set. Specs Genesect isn't broken; its a bit a Charizard Y 2.0, while Banded Genesects are comparable to Zard X related on (un)predictability. Like someone once said, Genesect is annoying to face, but definitely not that hard to manage and not broken. So, I vote NO BAN.
    APimpNamedSlickeback
    Howdy.
    I'd like to request a special application to be able to vote in the Genesect Ban Vote.
    First of all, I feel like I deserve to vote. I didn't get my reqs in time because 1) I didn't know much about this meta as I got into it a week ago, 2) I kinda did get them, just not in time. I was just 1402 this morning, I messaged Finchinator when it happened, so he can confirm. However, I still feel like I should be able to vote.
    I vote for KEEPING GENESECT WHERE HE IS.
    With Pokemon like Azumarill, Aegislash, M-Mawile, Bisharp, Aegislash, Talonflame, M-Charizard, etc. running around, Genesect is not broken whatsoever. He's a good offensive mon, sure, but all the Pokemon listed above can easily beat him. His role is very predictable. He can't be used offensively and defensively like a lot of the mons you see in this meta. Since Steel doesn't resist Ghost anymore, and with the introduction of the fairy type, Genesect's typing is no longer a reason to ban him because he gets hit hard with a lot of move typings. Also, with the addition of a lot of tanky mons into the meta, his offensive movepool isn't as effective as it was in other generations becuase a lot of mons like Mega Tar, Azumarill, etc, can tank a hit and hit him back hard. Let's not forget one of the most popular and prominent offensive mons, Specs Keldeo, who can take any hit from any Genesect set and OHKO in return with Hydro Pump. These are just a few reasons, I think that Genesect should stay where it is, and i'm sure other voters have provided you with other reasons.
    Thanks,
    APimpNamedSlickback
    HipHipHooray
    Genesect is not as strong this generation as it was in Gen 5. It lost a few key resistances and gained a few new checks and counters. Genesect's weakness lies in it's sub-par speed, which means it is suspect to revenge killing. In order to function effectively it must sacrifice offensive ability for speed. Using a choice scarf, Genesect is still suspect to the abundance of priority attacks in this generation, as well as focus sash users. Utilizing priority, Genesect is limited to non-STAB espeed, which needs a Choice Band to ensure KO's against common hyper offensive threats. Choice locked into a physically normal move then allows for many Pokemon to set up on Genesect. Lastly, Genesect can utilize Shift Gear in order to achieve power and speed. This set has difficulty setting up and is much more predictable due to it's physical dependence. Even after reaching plus two attack, physical Genesect is still entirely walled by Heatran and even King's Shield Aegislash.

    DO NOT BAN GENESECT: The bottom line is that Genesect's speed is sub-par, it is suspect to revenge killing and is still able to be walled entirely by common OU pokemon like Heatran. While unpredictable, it suffers from 4MSS and cannot beat the entire meta.
    Jennifer Lopez
    So it is a little late but it's still 11:30 pm Tuesday where I live. Just recently got reqs for the vote. Here's a screenshot to prove:
    http://imgur.com/iksxMcE

    My vote is to not ban Genesect.

    Genesect is a great Pokemon with great typing, however it is reliant upon a choice item. Choice band is in my opinion its best option by guaranteeing a +1 attack. However this alone does not make it amazing due to its low base power options. Iron head at 80 (120 stab), e speed at 80 and u turn 70 bp (105 stab), are all powerful at +1 but handlable. Because Genesect is locked into a move it is easy to force the switch. The most dangerous thing is the effective +2 when switched in on a speciallt defensive poke. However, it is easy to revenge kill if it is not locked into e speed due to its non scarfed 90 base speed. With e speed lock, Aegi and Gengar can force the switch and do massive damage to whatever comes in. Iron head can be handled by many of the bulky waters available. If a player wishes to alleviate this lack of speed, then Genesect loses a lot of power.

    Overall Genesect is powerful but not broken, especially after the steel nerf and the knock off boost. Both of those things combined make it much easier to either kill or severely weaken Genesect. Because of all of these things, Genesect should, in my opinion, remain in OU.
    Arvind
    Well my choice is to unban genesect
    I would like to put forward a few points why I felt so

    1.it hads a diversity to the meta and makes it atleast better than boring . its one of a few pokes that can check talon , thundy , fairies , latias/os and stuff and since there are not many checks to these pokes gene will be useful to fill it up in teams which need it .
    2.in sixth gen , as far as im concerned u need a good lead in order to gain momentum and cb gene does that well .. otherwise balanced teams lose momentum and op pokes take them down easily
    3.stall is used everywhere and its broken cause its just too annoying and gene is one of the very few pokes that can handle chansey/M venu cores and get u much needed momentum
    4. there are many checks to gene also , heatran counters it and most stall and balanced teams and even some ho teams have tran . aegi , skarm , zards , chomp ,lando t basically most bulky grounds check it
    If it’s the special version then its countered by chansey , tran fire types and bulky waters
    There are also many pokes that can take a hit and kill it like keldeo , conk , most fight types , gengar , exca in sand , azumaril , char x and y , pinsir , gyara , rotom w (burn) etc and all of these pokes are in top 30 usage .. so every good team does have more than one way to check it
    ZodiaK
    Genesect should not be banned from the OU tier.

    Genesect is an overall good offensive pokemon but it has counters, drawbacks, and a lack of versatility. Genesect's commonly seen viable checks and counters include Aegislash, Charizard-x/y, Excadrill with sand, Gyarados, Heatran, Keldeo, Scizor, Skarmory, Talonflame, Thundurus, and Zapdos, and to a less commonly seen extent Chandelure, Jellicent, Magnezone, Rotom-H, Shedinja, and Volcarona in which of all these pokemon listed there are many options for offensive/balance/stall teams. Genesect has it's drawbacks in which the metagame will punish him for, some of these drawbacks include a base 99 speed meaning it will be outpaced by every base 100 pokemon including a lot of new mega's this gen and anything faster including Landorus, Garchomp, Keldeo, [email protected], Gengar, Thundurus, Greninja and so forth which often means Genesect must either run a Choice Scarf to remedy for this deterrence or run a Choice Band with Extreme Speed Priority and in both cases you will have to lock yourself into a move if not using U-Turn to kill (attempt to kill) something. Other drawbacks include it's ability download which is very unreliable because your opponent controls how they give you boosts and lastly Genesect has mediocre bulk and gets hit very hard and it cannot come into many sorts of attacks punishmen-free especially given the rebalancing this generation to steel types. Genesect also lacks versatility as a pokemon because when you choose to use it you are only using it in an offensive role because that is all it is capable of doing compared to some other metagame threats that can either function as a defensive role or an offensive one such examples can be seen in Charizard-x, Aegislash, Gyarados, Scizor and many others. Genesect's presence in the OU tier does not go un-noticed but like many other serious threats of any meta but due to its plethora of checks and counters, the drawbacks it has, and through a lack of versatility it should not be banned from the tier.
    GeorgiaLed
    Hello you guys so umm mainly my [WM]Georgia account is not up there due to tilting, yet I would still like to share my opinion on Genesect being a suspect in OU.

    To begin with I would like to say that in my opinion genesect is another OU pokemon, its stats are mediocre especially its low speed compared to the rest of the threats in the OU tier. Besides that I believe genesect's excellent movepool and many variants of sets can make it really useful in the OU tier but still with a big space for counterplay since most of its moves are not stab and switching out can shut a choiced set down easily. Besides all that I believe genesect's ability can be used to finally have a more effective way to deal with stall due to, again, its great movepool and great ability that allows to abuse the enemy's weaker side. On the offensive side that's all I had to say and to be fair on the defending side genesect is a fairly squishy target besides its only one 4x weakness to fire type moves it can still be one shoted by powerful neutral moves or even to swords dance sucker punchers which are pretty common in OU after the gen 6 steel type changes.

    In all honesty I truly believe genesect belongs in OU and it's far from being OP or broken as some people tend to call it. I don't mean to sound harsh but there are poorly constructed teams in genesect's case that cannot deal with it whereas other pokemon in OU have way more impact on the meta and the formation of every single decent team.

    So from me it's a yes genesect should be in OU :) Thanks in advance for reading my post ~ <3

    He sent a follow-up PM saying: "

    So I am sorry I really forgot to say the reason I couldn't reach 1400 or above. The main reason might not be conviencing but I am a gen 5 "veteran" took a one year break and Im back on po after the 3rd of july's reset about 10 days ago so I didn't have enough time to adjust into the meta or the MAJOR typing changes, mega evos and so on. I had some decent peaks in gen 5 over 1500 around 1550 :) I don't have any screenshots but I hope my word is enough. I guess people can reassure it :)"
    Asurii
    I am voting via special application, I did not reach the voting requirements on time because I play Ubers as my main tier and OU as and secondary tier. In OU I've been around the low 1400s prior the the ladder reset and I have hit around the 1350s after.

    I vote no ban on Genesect because Gene's set are pretty predictable. Most run CB or Scarf and sometimes you can get the random LO, Ebelt, or in very special cases Specs. Genesect is easily countered/checked by Heatran, Rotom-H, Volcarona, Excadrill, Skarmory, Talonflame, zapdos, Aegislash or Charizard X or Y. Most teams do though rely on Genesect for momentum and synergy. Gene has a base speed of 99 which means it will get out speed by base 100s. This means that the most common sets you will see are scarf to get over it's slow speed or CB with Espeed to revenge. Genesect isn't OP, and it belongs in OU. A good player may try to trick you into thinking Gene is one set, but once you look at damage calcs or if it out speeds something you can easily deal with it.
    xIce-
    Hello fellow tier leaders, I would like to start out by stating my reason for not making the requirement for voting on the genesect ban. I have mostly been busy and read about the voting thing a bit late, but I can assure you that I have hit 1500 on countless times on different alts. Back to the matter at hand which is genesect.

    I don’t believe genesect should be banned considering the fact that its defensive stats aren’t that great, it has plenty of checks and counters, and underwhelming offense. Genesect defensive stats are sub-par, with base 71/95/95 stats, it cannot take many hits considering it's typing doesn't grant it. It's speed is also low at a base of 99, meaning it gets outsped by half the OU meta like latios, garchomp, and keldeo for examples. Genesect also has plenty of counters like chansey, heatran, talonflame, and aegislash. Although genesect has a base power of 120 atk and 120 sp.atk, it still won't get past most of these pokemon like aegislash, heatran, and chansey. Genesect is not proven to be as broken like most people are considering it to be. So in conclusion, genesect is a good pokemon but has many flaws which are being over-looked and therefore should remain in OU.
    Whereabouts Unknown
    This is my vote for the Genesect suspect in OU. Since I didn't have time to ladder in the last two weeks, I have to request a special application grant. I've been busy with things IRL like getting a job and a road trip, and my extra free time has been devoted mostly to the two mafia themes which I am in the QC Review for, as well as my own mafia theme which is currently under Review. Since I have played the metagame extensively prior to the test ban, usually ranging in the 1600s (under Whereabouts Unknown), and have played at least a few dozen games during it, in addition to my participation in previous discussions, I feel like I should be able to cast a vote.

    My reasoning for Genesect my vote is on the basis that it lacks the exceptionality in a metagame rife with powerful threats to warrant a ban. Many other Pokémon, such as Thundurus-I, Landorus-I, Charizard-X/Y, and even Aegislash, have as few or fewer checks and counters. Genesect keeps some of them in check, while some of those can keep Genesect in check. You could argue that this is an instance of broken checking broken, but I feel that's not a valid excuse to ban many of OU's threats. It can run multiple sets, but based on the damage output of its U-turn (or whatever move it uses first), it is easy to gauge which one you are facing. U-turn spam can be punished by Rocky Helmet users like Skarmory and Landorus-T, and Choice sets rely on prediction to score KOs. The Life Orb set is somewhat slow and lacks the wall breaking power to pierce popular cores like SkarmChance without the appropriate boost. Furthermore, that boost is completely manipulable by the opponent. It has a solid counter in Heatran and fairly solid counter in Charizard-X, not to mention lower tier fire types that work well to check or counter it. Keldeo, Mega Mawile, and Mega Venusaur check it quite well, and they are rather popular. Chip damage to hazards and/or switching in on "safe" attacks can kill it or put it in range of weak priority. I do not believe its impact in the metagame is at all exceptional, and it should be kept. (I've also made other points in suspect thread which I may have omitted in this summary.)

    The accepted votes were 7-3 in the favor of the pro-ban side. The total votes were 13-12 in the favor of the anti-ban side. This is the conversation that all the tier leaders had when discussing the votes.

    If you wish to question any acceptances or rejections, feel free to ask me directly and I will provide justification; however, justification can likely be found in the link above with the conversation. On this note, I'd also like to add that none of this is up to dispute and there will be no
    overturning this decision in the immediate future, but you can ask for a Genesect retest once the OU environment has significantly changed in the far out future, of course.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2014
    Sinclair, meeps and Proof like this.
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