1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Cloudflare Security Issue - Change Your Passwords!

    Hello there, Guest!

    Cloudflare, the internet proxy we use to protect ourselves against DDoS and other malicious attacks, reported on 23rd February 2017 that they had patched a bug reported by Google's Project Zero that was exposing sensitive information in random requests, approximately 0.00003% of all requests, since September 2016.

    Whilst it is unlikely that any information has been leaked from this website, we recommend that all users change their passwords here on the Pokémon Online forums, as a precaution We also recommend checking the full list of potentially affected sites so that you can change your password on those websites also. Remember to use a unique and secure password for every site that requires one.

    We apologise for any inconvenience caused.

    Dismiss Notice

Suspect Discussion: Volcarona

Discussion in 'Gen 6 UU' started by Insane Soul, Jul 27, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Insane Soul

    Insane Soul Griffith did nothing wrong.

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2011
    Messages:
    889
    Likes Received:
    506
    PO Trainer Name:
    Insane Soul
    [​IMG]
    Let's continue the nice tradition of having Paint drawing for our suspects :]

    Discuss the possibility of Volcarona being banned from the XY UU tier.

    Use this thread to discuss Volcarona's effect in the metagame. Talk about the different sets it can use, his best partners/team support and potential checks & counters. State your opinion on whether you think Volcarona should be banned or if it should stay in the XY UU tier.

    All opinions are welcome to be presented, and arguments may be shared between players, as long as you back it up with knowledge and experience and refrain from making your entire points based on responses to others. Theorymonning is not a valid argument and anyone who bases their opinion in it risks being infracted. If you are relatively new to this kind of environment, i suggest you read these guidelines.

    Do not forget that, if a consensus can't be found after this discussions reaches its end, a vote will be held.
     
    Virizion, Tendetta, Accelgor and 5 others like this.
  2. JeyTheGrey

    JeyTheGrey PWRFL!! YOU NEED A REVIVE!

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2014
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    180
    PO Trainer Name:
    JeyTheGrey/Green
    So I'll try my luck to start off this discussion with my own point of view and opinion.

    Volcarona has in my opinion many sets possible, making it Life Orb fully offensive to scarf (trust me, I've seen that set) to max defense with Will-O-Wisp.
    In this post I'll focus on the most used set, being offensive LO.

    Volcarona (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Flame Body
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Quiver Dance
    - Fiery Dance / Fire Blast
    - Bug Buzz
    - Giga Drain / HP Ice / HP Rock / Hp Ground / Roost

    This set is by far the most threatning in the UU Metagame at the moment. It is so powerful, that you have to prepare for it, to not get sweapt! To tell you how this affected the Tier, you can watch Terrakions usage. Terrakion is a poke that checks (not counters) Volcarona decently, but it doesn't like switching in on a LO Giga Drain. Its usage rose up to 8% where it was at 5-6% before Volc was in the tier. There is a centralisation already noticable.


    Volcarona's movepool gives it almost perfect coverage, depending on the moveset. There are only a few checks and even less counters. The most viable ones in the tier are:
    CHECKS:
    • Chandelure: It is commonly seen and can take Volcs hits well, being immune to fire stab and resists bug buzz x4. Also giga drain does not really hurt it. Nevertheless, there are 2 Problems: If Volcarona has Roost, it can set up, boost its spdef in the process and takes Chandelures moves without any problems after a while. Tricking is an option, but it would be at +1 already at that point and can attack on the next turn while outspeeding chandelure at the same time. If you're unlucky, Volc has hp rock which kills it without getting damage or Trick off!
    • Terrakion: Like Chandy, it resists both stab moves, but LO Giga Drain at +1 will kill the standard max speed max attack spread (if not scarfed).
      +1 252 SpA Life Orb Volcarona Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Terrakion: 356-421 (110.2 - 130.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
      Therefore, many Terraks are scarfed, but if predicted, it doesn't like switching in on a Giga Drain, doing at least around 75%.
    • Salamence: Again resists both stab moves and also Giga Drain. I think overall the safest switch in general to volc, maintaining the offensive pressure! Problem is that Volc might be carrying HP Ice (which I ran once, works surprisingly well). Unless it has Yache Berry, it dies in one hit. And if it happens to outspeed it because it is scarfed, it has a 30% chance of getting burned, being crippled for the rest of the match, unless you have a heal beller.
    • Victini: Victini is usually scarfed and can switch in on its hits, taking around 55-65% from LO Bug Buzz, making it able to live even at +1 (if it loses the speedtie). It can retaliate and kill with V-Create. If Rocks are up, Victini loses its viability as a switchin and takes a lot of damage from Bug Buzz.
    • Arcanine: It can't get burned by Flame Body and it resists Volcs dual Stab moves. LO Flare Blitz will easily OHKO, but it is rather a check, because again, Volc might have HP Ground / Rock. Arcanine will be left with a little hp, rendering it most likely useless for the remainder of the match.
    • (Mega) Aerodactyl: It takes it on well enough while avoid getting burned by Flame Body because Stone Edge is not a contact move. But again, If it carries HP Ice / HP Rock, it doesn't like taking those hits at all.
    • Zygarde: Due to its great bulk, it can live any hit thrown at it (unless HP Ice) and eq will hurt a lot in return. Also because EQ is not a contact move, you'll not get burned.
    All these Pokes have at least 7% usage in the tier (apart from Aero), meaning that they are used quite often. All Pokes are top 15 used, based on the site http://stats.pokemon-online.eu/XY UU/index.html

    COUNTERS:
    • Snorlax: Snorlax takes its hits easily and it can Whirlwind it out or attack / paralyze with Body Slam. It does not take anything from Fire Blast / Fiery Dance thanks to Thick Fat as his Ability and while fully invested, it takes max 30% and 2 hit ko's Volc after Life Orb with Body Slam. Also, because it is a physical attacker, it can get burned in the process. This does not matter that much, because almost every Snorlax (unless banded variants) carry Rest to heal. Burn would be useless and would not make much of a difference.
    • Assault Vest Fire Types: I am mainly thinking about AV Entei, that takes it on easily in every aspect. Even HP Ground / Rock would hurt it only vaguely. It can Retaliate with Sacred Fire / Stone Edge, both OHKO'ing.
    • Goodra: Goodra has a great movepool, also learning Rock Slide, which OHKO's Volcarona with ease. Due to its enormous spdef and maybe even having AV, it can take on Volc without any problems. HP ice and Bug Buzz will not damage it greatly at all, making it a good counter.
      252 SpA Life Orb Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 94-110 (24.4 - 28.6%) -- 99.1% chance to 4HKO
    • AV Machamp: It is rather a check, because Volc can carry Hurricane, but it's rarely seen, so i put it in the 'Counters'-section. It can live any 2 hits and kill it with stone edge, avoid getting burned again. It does not resist Fire Blast though, making it harder to switch into it.
    • Porygon 2: For the same reasons as Snorlax. It cripples it with thunder wave. making it useless for the rest of the match, but it is used as setup-fodder in the meanwhile, because it is a special attacker (and Quiver boosts spdef.)
    That's pretty much all the counters I can think off just straight up in my head. I'm sure there might be some I missed but the point is: These Pokemon are not seen or used much whatsoever. The mostly used one is Snorlax, only being at around 4.6% usage (Rank #37), the rest goes even lower in usage. --> They are not really that viable in the current metagame, because they are outclassed by other Pokemon.

    Next problem is, that revenge killing it, is more difficult than you might think. Many times you can come in with a faster Pokemon and revenge kill the wanted threat. Not so with Volcarona. Because it has 100 base speed already, it ties at +1 with many scarfers already, or even outspeeding them. At the same time, it must almost be a physical scarfer, because it boosted its spdef with Quiver Dance, making it likely to loive a scarfers special attacking move and run through your team. The Best revenge killers are scarfed Salamence, scarfed Staraptor and scarfed Victini, all hitting 100 base speed, so tieing with Volc at +1.
    Best way therefore to kill it is with priority. But the most used priority moves are all physical (Fake Out, Sucker Punch, Mach Punch, Ice Shard, Extreme Speed, Bullet Punch and Aqua Jet), but will fail to do much, because most of them are resisted or simply weak (Bullet Punch / Mach Punch / Ice Shard / Fake Out) and they all make contact, so you could get burned in the process as well. Sucker Punch is a good way to revenge it but you play mindgames. If your opponent predicts it, they could set up and eventually even get the prediction game right and end up killing. If you succeed to sucker it, you might get burned too like the other priorities. Leaving Extreme Speed and Aqua Jet as only viable ways to revenge it. Extreme Speed can only be used on Zygarde and Aqua Jet by Crawdaunt. This leaves a damaged or dead volcarona, but an chance again to burn your Poke.

    THE BIG PROBLEM
    So why is volc that good if it has decent checks and some counters? The main problem is, that it uses specially defensive walls like Florges (Number 1 usage in UU atm) and Umbreon as set up fodders. It has a chance to set up on almost every special attacker, being able to live one hit and run through your team if you're not prepared for it. Volcarona is mainly used in 2 occasion:
    • Hole Breaker: It sets up early on in the game, erasing some pokes from the opposing team, leaving it vulnerable to other threats on the team. You have to eventually sack or let something take huge damage in order to take it out. This will open up gaps for other Pokemon to shine. While it can get rid of walls, Dragons can usually sweep or damage the opposing team later because Walls were sacked to weaken Volc. Salamence and Hydreigon have a free leadway later on, because their walls can't take on volc.
    • Lategame Sweeper: It sets up late game, once everything is weakend and the checks to volc are gone. And it can even set up on water type pokemon and recover health with giga drain at the same time. This would mean, that they have to keep the Volc-Check until the end. You can play and predict around that and eventually weaken the team to a point where they have to sack or let the check take damage.
    Best way to support Volc is simple: Set up rocks! The most used defogger is Mew, that can't handle Volc and you maintain the pressure, forcing it to bring in checks, which are mainly fire types and they take 25% each time they switch in. At some point they are weakened and you run through with Volcarona. Mega Blast (defensive) is a good help to volc, taking on its revengers quite easily and is a hard hitter as well. It takes on fire types and it deals with Zygarde and Crawdaunt.


    Long story short: In conclusion I think Volc makes you use certain Pokes to check Volcarona, otherwise you will get sweapt by it. It gets a chance to set up in almost any occasion and dealing huge damage to the team, leaving a way for other Pokes to sweep or break through the team. Volc takes on stall single handedly if no counter is used. It resists many priorities and has a chance to burn in return. It's a great wallbreaker, hole-breaker and lategame sweeper.
    I think it is broken in the current metagame, having almost no viable counters and only a few viable checks that can be dealt with other pokes, so I vote for BAN!

    That was a long analysis... I hope you could build yourself your own opinion on this and please let me know what you think about Volcarona. I hope you enjoyed reading.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2014
  3. Celebi.

    Celebi. Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Messages:
    532
    Likes Received:
    130
    PO Trainer Name:
    SheerForceGatr/Bulba
    I think no one has posted here because there isn't really much to say after Jey's incredible post. He basically covered everything there is to cover and unless you are anti ban there isn't really much else to say without repeating what he has said in different words.
     
    Tendetta likes this.
  4. Accelgor

    Accelgor Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2013
    Messages:
    166
    Likes Received:
    162
    PO Trainer Name:
    -Accelgor-
    I believe its also imperative to mention Volcarona's bulky Quiver Dance set...something along the lines of this:

    Volcarona (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flame Body
    EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) / Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Quiver Dance
    - Fiery Dance
    - Bug Buzz
    - Roost/Giga Drain

    I believe that this set is just as dangerous as the one Jey mentioned in his concise post (great job bro =D), because it's extremely hard to take down once a couple of boosts are attained. Roost in particular makes Volcarona VERY hard to take down, although Giga Drain can replace it as it offers more coverage and helps to regain HP alongside Leftovers. This set gives up immediate power for reliability and bulk, and therefore giving Flame Body more chances to potentially activate. I'm sort of neutral on Volcarona and whether it should be banned from the tier or not...but this set should definitely be taken into consideration during any discussion regarding this suspect.
     
    Virizion, JeyTheGrey and just2bquiet like this.
  5. Black Ghost

    Black Ghost Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2013
    Messages:
    79
    Likes Received:
    4
    PO Trainer Name:
    Ness
    Volc does pretty well considering that there are a lot of thing that should wall it in the tier like Florges @no. 1 , Snorlax, Chandelure or one of those AV 'mon.
    I generally switch Scarf Victini into it, which ko's only if Volc is offensive.
    On paper it seems manageable but Ive been wrecked too many times by this thing, it's gg whenever it reaches +2 usually.

    There are a few 100% checks tho like banded/lo Crawdaunt - you might wanna run Aromatherapy with it though.
    252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 384-456 (102.6 - 121.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    or here's a fun one (good vs Scolipede/Medicham/Mienshao too)
    252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 384-452 (102.6 - 120.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    But Fletchinder is non-viable in the tier generally..just wanted to post it :(

    If you wanna be really obscure you can use Unaware Swoobat with Psych Up which can ohko offensive sets with Air Slash.

    I'd like to add that both Rain or Sun sets are viable and wreck even more with the right support.
    And the defensive set is even harder to check
    All in all, BAN THIS ALREADY, my UU team is not safe
     
  6. Accelgor

    Accelgor Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2013
    Messages:
    166
    Likes Received:
    162
    PO Trainer Name:
    -Accelgor-
    Just felt the need to say this...for all of you guys that want Volcarona banned/to remain in the tier, SPEAK UP. Just because Jey made a great post that basically covered everything doesn't mean that the discussion should go stale. Almost everything in his post was pure fact apart from his opinions on why Volcarona should be banned. I'm getting the impression right now that Jey's intimidated those who are anti-ban for Volcarona while those who are pro-ban believe everything has been covered :o

    Let's get this discussion going people. Volcarona's such a pivotal piece of the current UU environment and I'm pretty sure you all have your own unique opinions regarding it.
     
    JeyTheGrey likes this.
  7. Celebi.

    Celebi. Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Messages:
    532
    Likes Received:
    130
    PO Trainer Name:
    SheerForceGatr/Bulba
    Volc needs to be banned from UU. It is far to big of a threat for all team archetypes to be able to effectively deal with. The offensive set just straight decimates most offensive team as LO + its 3 attacking moves handle almost all of the UU tier. Offensive teams essentially rely on Pokes like Scarf Terrak, Scarf/Band Tini, and Aero to revenge kill Volc because nothing is really safe to bring into it. Even when that is the case Volc finds it pretty easy to just switch out. Even with a 4x weakness to Rocks Volc can set up on a large portion of the metagame and remains a threat even before setting up boasting a fantastic 135 Sp.A stat.

    Defensive teams rely on Psych Up, Toxic, Snorlax, Goodra, and other alike mons to deal with Volc and even Snorlax fears a Flame Body burn. Of the 3/4ish sets I believe are the most effecive (LO 3 attacks, QD+Roost [can be bulky or offensive], and Tankarona) LO 3 attacks (obviously with QD) is the most threatening to the most teams. QD+Roost is pretty threatening to offensive teams but typically finds its advantage against more balanced/stally teams. Tankarona with QD/WoW/Roost/STAB is more of a niche set. It helps cripple every single common switch in that isn't a fire type while still being able to be an offensive threat after a few boosts.

    Jey hit most of the main points regarding Volc, but overall it is just too strong for the UU meta. It causes too much pressure on every team archetype as well as showing evidence of centralizing the metagame. It has fantastic coverage making switching in anything not named Snorlax or a ridiculously fat mon scary. Defensive teams definitely have the advantage against Volc but it is still quite the threat nonetheless.

    Also, regarding 99.9% of Psych Up mons. Just no. They just lose to Volc. In order to Psych Up you need to take a hit, and well, good luck. P2 is easily the best at that strategy.QD+Roost Volc just sets up on Florges, Toxicless Tenta, Arcanine, and Trickless Chandy and many other mons that people try to use as typical answers.

    I also apologize for the quality of this post. I hope I got my message across.. I've been a bit scatterbrained and busy lately
     
    Accelgor and JeyTheGrey like this.
  8. Virizion

    Virizion ~ Taste the Rainbow ~

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2013
    Messages:
    622
    Likes Received:
    68
    PO Trainer Name:
    Virizion
    After playing UU all day getting back into the tier, and having experience with Volcarona before, I feel that I can share my thoughts and opinions across. Note that I say a lot of stuff that JeyTheGrey mentioned, because I agree with him in every single way. Still though, I might as well keep the thread active enough.
    -------

    So, here we are. The powerful Volcarona, is more deadly than ever. A Versatile Sweeper, a deadly wallbreaker, and an amazing movepool, it seems that the UU-metagame was designed for it. It has a Special Attack higher than Hydreigon, and it has a typing that is fantastic offensively in almost every way. It's Speed is absolutely viable, even if it's not perfect. It even can take an unboosted Special hit, very well. So then, why must this thing go?
    Well to start of with, it's not what you'd call underrated. Volcarona is the 7th most-used Pokémon in the tier as of now, and for good reason. Just by looking at it, Pokes such as Mew and Magnezone cringe in it by looking at it funny, and it can form many particular roles due to it's versatility. It has one of the best stat-boosting moves in the game in Quiver Dance, it has a somewhat-powerful STAB move in Fiery Dance which has a 50% chance to raise it's Special Attack by 1 stage, it even has Giga Drain for the likes of Quagsire. But if it's checks and counters come along against it, what can it synergise with? Well first, let's take a look at some Checks and Counters:

    Checks:
    Opposing Fire-types are a huge threat to Volcarona, particularly Arcanine, Victini, and Chandelure like Jey mentioned. Hidden Power Rock is so weak that even at +1, a Timid variant with max Special Attack (that doesn't hold Life Orb) can't even OHKO a Victini after SR, and Bug Buzz only has a 1/4 chance to do so. A bad example I know, but it can somewhat show that Volcarona has to be at least +2 to deal with some of it's biggest checks, and even then, it's obviously not invincible.

    Counters:
    While Stealth Rock is probably the biggest threat to Volcarona in my opinion, there are still some massive threats to this fire bug. Bulky attackers such as Snorlax, Goodra, and other AV users are arguably Volcarona's nightmare, as they can take any hit it throws at them and can retaliate back for massive damage. Like JeyTheGrey said, Thunder Wave also cripples non-Substitute sets, because it hinders Volcarona's speed and teams can take advantage of that, leaving your many stat-boosts biting the dust. Toxic can also become a massive threat if used early-game, as it basically puts Volc on a timer on how many turns it can attack, however if this is used late-game, it may not be enough to stop it's sweeping potential.

    Synergy:
    Volcarona is a Pokémon that can synergise with a good amount of viable Pokémon, as it seems pretty obvious rn. One in particular that springs to my mind is Latias, a reason being because Volc can lure in Pokémon that she can check, particularly Terrakion and Zygarde. Being able to also Defog hazards away, which Volcarona hates due to it's typing, as well as having access to Roost to stay healthy to support it, Latias can make a great partner in general defensively. However, what happens if you would like a Pokémon that can deal with the Fire-types that even HP Rock/Ground can't even deal with, Water-types in general make good partners. Mega Blastoise with Scald and Ice Beam is one of the best, as it definitely has the capability to defeat Arcanine, Terrakion, Salamence, most Victini, etc. Looking for a non-mega? Milotic can also be a good addition instead, as it can also Recover and be a good stallbreaker with Toxic, however it won't be able to check attacks such as a Victini's Bolt Strike well at all.

    Overall:
    Apart from it's checks and counters, that can be supported with the right teammates, Volcarona can steamroll over unprepared teams in no time. Play it well, and you can become a powerhouse.

    -------
    So the answer (for me at least) is simple. Even with it's problems, this fire bug deserves to leave the XY UU tier, and not come back.
     
  9. meeps

    meeps administrator xd

    Joined:
    May 24, 2012
    Messages:
    921
    Likes Received:
    963
    PO Trainer Name:
    meeps
    just gonna post stuff i feel hasn't really been mentioned or probably should be pointed out

    goodra needs to run rock slide if it wants to beat volc, otherwise it will lose (the only calc i see is of a +0 volc lo bug buzz vs goodra, but volc will never switch-in or stay in on goodra if it's at +0, unless goodra is at really low health). realistically goodra is probably coming in on volcarona as volc quiver dances, some +1 calcs (assuming no rock slide on goodra).

    +1 252 SpA Life Orb Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 138-164 (35.9 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    252+ SpA Goodra Draco Meteor vs. +1 4 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 133-157 (42.6 - 50.3%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO

    volc can easily setup again and it will beat goodra bar crit or if goodra has rock slide. onto goodra running rock slide (and it still isn't too common), it's used only for volc and it's completely useless against anything else in the tier (goodra has a really nice movepool and can find use in other moves rather than sacrificing a moveslot for one pokemon).

    other pokemon are being forced to change the sets or moves they run as well, and some uncommon pokemon are being used more for the sake of volc. scarf terrakion is being used more, which is rather disappointing compared to the other sets it can run which are better (band, sash lead, lo sd, subsalac sd, etc) than scarf. other pokemon being used more for volc include entei, aerodactyl, tentacruel, machamp, snorlax, etc (goodra has actually lost usage, showing it's not as strong as a counter/check to volc as some of you make it out to be).

    the aforementioned pokemon being used more isn't necessarily a bad thing as it creates more diversity in the tier, but it's a matter or whether the pokemon have a solid niche outside of checking/countering volc which is what should really be focused on. goodra is pretty solid vs a lot of special attackers, notably electric-types, but physical attackers or physic-types using psyshock can give it a hard time. entei is pretty underwhelming from my experience using it, it's rather weak without choice band and the common bulky waters just laugh at it. aerodactyl isn't that bad, pretty underrated, but it is hindered by common priority attacks which it is weak to (aqua jet, ice shard, bullet punch) but it can still cause havoc against unprepared offensive teams. tentacruel's typing generally gives it a hard time in the tier, as a lot of common attackers give it trouble. machamp is probably the best of the aformentioned pokemon, fighting-type is pretty nice to take hits from some common special attackers (blastoise, hydreigon, thundurus-t) and has nice coverage and dynamicpunch is pretty nice (and annoying), like the other ass vest users it'll still struggle with the common physical attackers though. snorlax is like the other ass vest users as well, pretty nice vs special attackers but struggles vs physical attackers. some of these pokemon are probably also being used more because of the departure of mega gard which gave a lot of these pokemon problems, but i'd like to hear more on what you guys think the shift in tier volcarona brings
     
  10. Insane Soul

    Insane Soul Griffith did nothing wrong.

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2011
    Messages:
    889
    Likes Received:
    506
    PO Trainer Name:
    Insane Soul
    Volcarona benefits from the most common offensive speed tier in UU and what is virtually the best setup move in the game (Geomancy boosts more, but needs an item to work to its full potential), which is Quiver Dance. 85/65/105 defenses are well above average for an offensive pokemon on the special spectrum, and its ability Flame Body acts a situational boost to its average physical defense.

    Volcarona's main benefit is that it entered a metagame where Defoggers are already an established presence, with options going from Mew, Zapdos, Crobat, Latias and Empoleon, among others, to spinners like Donphan and Starmie, which means it doesn't have to necessarily shape a team around it so it can reach full potential. Keeping rocks of the field might become harder if the opponent puts enough offensive pressure with a team that features, for example, Deoxys-D but a sacrifial poke is fine if it guarantees the safe switch-in for Volcarona.

    If the opponent happens to need a switch to a better pokemon and allows Volcarona to setup just once, things get extremely complicated and it's not uncommon to sacrifice at least 2 pokemon to stop the sweep, if, of course, the opponent can afford to do so, because if he can't, it is good game. Fire Blast and Bug Buzz, along with Quiver Dance, are mandatory, with the fourth moveslot being flexible enough to catch some pokemon offguard. Giga Drain, HP Ice or the more uncommon HP Rock or Will-o-Wisp are all options that cover different threats and help change a certain check into a lesser poke.
    AV Goodra has been run with Rock Slide, along with Power Gem Mega Ampharos, but both are worn down easily and without Wish or Healing Wish support they will meet a point where they can't come in safely. They are also very situational and outclassed by former sets. Scarf Terrakion also gets worn down easily, and risks locking itself into a move that allows another pokemon to setup on it, like Zygarde.

    So, the possibility of wearing a more bulky variant, its teambuilding restriction, the already present team support in the form of Defoggers and Spinners and minimum space of maneuver given to the opponent, who has to play around Volcarona to never let it setup has deemed it an unhealthy presence who is going to get banned in XY UU.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2014
    Virizion, Tendetta and Finchinator like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.