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[Available] Venusaur (Dropped)

Discussion in 'OU Analyses' started by Alfalfa, Sep 2, 2014.

  1. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Underappreciated

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    ==General==
    Venusaur is back again in gen 6, remaining an OU staple mostly due to its new mega evolution.

    Mega Venusaur boasts amazing 80/123/120 overall bulk, which is enough to tank a lot hits. A useful ability in Thick Fat cancels out its Ice and Fire weaknesses, making it more difficult to break through.

    Grass/Poison typing is very useful defensively, resisting common Fighting-, Water-, Fairy-, and Grass-type moves. This pretty much makes Venusaur a good check / counter to big threats like Keldeo, Breloom, and Azumarill. It also has semi-reliable recovery in Synthesis, a semi-reliable sleeping move in Sleep Powder, and several fun supporting moves like Leech Seed, Knock Off, and Roar. It even has a decent offensive presence with a base 122 Special Attack (when Mega), and a workable movepool.

    With a solid typing, workable movepool, and the ability to check many things, Venusaur is a solid option for a bulkier offensive Pokemon in OU.

    ==Offensive==
    Venusaur @ Venusaurite
    Ability: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 240 HP / 248 SpA / 20 Spe
    Modest Nature
    - Giga Drain
    - Synthesis
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Hidden Power Fire

    Mega Venusaur's massive base 122 Special Attack allows it to threaten offensively, while still maintaining hefty natural bulk, thus making it a great addition to balanced teams.

    With the given EVs, this set will outrun any max Speed Adamant Azumarill that it may encounter (however rare they are), while 240 HP takes the stat to an odd number, minimizing passive damage, and the remaining EVs are dropped into Special Attack.
    Giga Drain is a fairly self explanatory option, as it hits hard and helps Mega Venusaur to stay healthy. Synthesis in slot 2 is a reliable recovery option, and Mega Venusaur can find plenty of time to use it.
    Sludge Bomb in slot 3 is an alternate STAB, hitting harder than Giga Drain (assuming neutral targets), and also keeping Fairy-types at bay, as well as other Grass-types. Lastly, Hidden Power Fire is there to hit the likes of Scizor, who would otherwise prove annoying. The Hidden Power type can be changed if different coverage is needed - for example Hidden Power Ground can be used to hit Heatran (assuming no Air Balloon) - however, Hidden Power Fire is still the better option so Venusaur can hit Ferrothorn and Skarmory, who would wall it should it carry Hidden Power Ground.

    ==Synergy==
    Mega Venusaur's two remaining weaknesses are Psychic and Flying, both of which are easily checked.

    The likes of Tyranitar and Bisharp are good initial choices for team-mates, as they resist both of these types, and can even help remove them with their STABs. Both can easily Pursuit trap Psychic-types, while Tyranitar's Rock STABs will threaten just about every Flying-type that is not a Gliscor or Skarmory. In return, Mega Venusaur resists Water and Fairy moves for Tyranitar, and Fighting moves for both.

    Heatran is also a brilliant partner, taking all of Venusaur's initial weaknesses well, resisting some of its neutral hits as well (such as Bug), and being able to check Pokemon that threaten Mega Venusaur, such as Charizard and Talonflame. In return, Mega Venusaur can give Heatran Leech Seed support, and tank Water- and Fighting-type moves for it.

    Something that can take Ground moves well is generally a good partner for Venusaur, as its neutrality means that it won't take Earthquakes nearly as well as it would like to. Rotom-W would be the first applicable mention, with its sole weakness (Grass) being 4x resisted by Mega Venusaur, and its ability to Volt Switch being fairly invaluable, allowing Mega Venusaur safe switch ins. The defensive core of Heatran, Mega Venusaur, and Rotom-W is very common and effective, with Mold Breaker Excadrill being one of the few pokemon that threatens all three of them, and even it has to watch out for Rotom-W's Hydro Pump and Will-o-Wisp.

    Mega Venusaur struggles with special walls like Chansey, as they have reliable recovery and do not really care much about status. Stallbreakers such as Sableye and Mew are therefore a viable choice for helping beat them, or simply a Fighting-type like Keldeo or Conkeldurr. However, it should be noted that Fighting-types share Mega Venusaur's weaknesses to Flying-type attacks. Heatran also hard walls this set, so a teammate that can remove it from the match pairs well with Venusaur.

    ==Defensive==
    Venusaur @ Venusaurite
    Ability: Chlorophyll -> Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 HP / 236 Def / 16 Spe
    Bold nature

    - Giga Drain
    - Synthesis
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Leech Seed / Sleep Powder / Hidden Power Fire

    This is likely what a Venusaur will be seen doing in XY OU. This is just a template though, as it can be modified in many ways;

    The EVs can be mixed and matched to meet the team's needs, or even the user's preferences. The current spread maximizes Venusaur's physical bulk, allowing it to handle the likes of Breloom and Azumarill very well, while allowing it to outspeed maximum speed Azumarill.

    The given moves are very interchangeable too. Giga Drain, Sludge Bomb and Synthesis are all fairly staple options, seeing as they are Mega Venusaur's tools for checking all the things it needs to. Without them, it would have a much harder time beating the likes of Breloom, Azumarill, and Thundurus respectively.

    Giga Drain deals hefty damage thanks to Mega Venusaur's very respectable base 122 Special Attack, and helps keep the beast healthy. Synthesis in slot 2 is yet another means of keeping Mega Venusaur healthy, as it generates plenty of free turns. Sludge Bomb in slot 3 breaks into Fairies and opposing Grass-types not named Ferrothorn.

    Slot 4 is where things get interesting. Leech Seed is the first listing, as it makes Mega Venusaur even more annoying to face, and can also help team-mates by generating passive recovery for them. This is especially useful to tanks such as Aegislash, as they otherwise lack reliable recovery, and have a low HP stat, meaning they would benefit massively from Leech Seed draining, especially if the victim is something like a Blissey. Sleep Powder, on the other hand, lets Mega Venusaur incapacitate a threat like Charizard on the switch in. Its accuracy is not the greatest, but Venusaur can make do. Lastly, Hidden Power Fire has its mention for hitting common switch ins like (Mega) Scizor and Ferrothorn for massive damage. All three moves are worth using, but Leech Seed is the most common and recommended in most cases.

    Earthquake is perfectly viable too, to hit incoming Heatran on the switch. Any set using physical moves should consider changing their nature to Relaxed (or Sassy/Quiet, where applicable), to increase the damage output just a little bit.

    16 Speed EVs is an optional investment to get the jump on max Speed Azumarill and Mega Mawile. While both pokemon are uncommon with maximal Speed investment, it's a small price for Mega Venusaur to pay, and it works well.

    Chlorophyll is the listed ability because it allows Venusaur a free Speed boost in the sun, meaning it can act hold off on Mega evolving and surprise opponents with unexpected Speed, with Mega Charizard Y being an extremely notable one. Mega Charizard Y can then be KOed by Hidden Power Rock (if you have it), or put to sleep with Sleep Powder.

    ==Other Options==
    Venusaur can still function without its mega stone, making use of the Leftovers or Black Sludge for decent recovery, but using Venusaur without its Mega Stone is a waste of a teamslot, because without its Mega Stone, Amoonguss outclasses it. The Life Orb can be used on more offensive sets to give it a little more power, actually hitting harder than its Mega counterpart because of the Life Orb's 30% power boost, but the lack of bulk and Thick Fat is really noticeable. With sun support and Growth, its classic sun sweeping set from Gen 5 looks good on paper, but sun offense in general loses to a lot of common threats.

    Knock Off is a very useful move to spam, as it strips opponents of their precious items and gives insight into their tactics, but Venusaur does not have the space for it. Hidden Power Rock is very useful, hitting Charizard or Talonflame as they inevitably switch in, but Talonflame already gets hit really hard by Sludge Bomb. Power Whip is worth a mention too, as it hits for good damage even when coming from an uninvested base 80 (100 when Mega) Attack stat. However, Venusaur is prone to getting burned by the likes of Keldeo or Rotom-W, so in the long run, Power Whip is not the best choice.

    Roar is useful for shuffling pokemon, and can also stop setup pokemon like Suicune from becoming too annoying (however rare it might be). However, it does contradict Leech Seed, so using them together may not be a wise idea. Toxic can also be used to wear down walls and put pressure on clerics too.

    == Checks and Counters ==

    Talonflame is one of the primary switch-ins to Mega Venusaur, as its priority Brave Bird can prevent literally any Venusaur set from gaining ground. Talonflame cannot come in safely however, taking heavy damage from a stray Sludge Bomb or even Hidden Power Rock, and Sleep Powder will neuter it instantly. Physically Defensive Mega Venusaur can also survive a Choice Band Brave Bird too, it's worth noting (albeit just barely), so some prior damage would be recommended. It is also worth mentioning that Talonflame can run specially bulky sets for the sole purpose of setting up on and beating Mega Venusaur that lack Sleep Powder or Hidden Power Rock.

    Ferrothorn stands out a great answer, as it is immune to Sleep Powder and all Poison moves Venusaur may have, 4x resists Giga Drain, and can wear it down over time without a problem. Venusaur has Synthesis to keep itself healthy and give Ferrothorn trouble, but unless it has Hidden Power Fire, it's not dealing nearly enough damage to threaten.

    Other Flying-types like Skarmory and Gliscor can also give Mega Venusaur a lot of trouble, with the former 4x resisting Grass and being immune to Poison, plus packing a STAB Brave Bird to batter Mega Venusaur with, while Gliscor can easily stall its PP away from it as long as it doesn't switch directly into a Leech Seed, Sleep Powder or the rare Hidden Power Ice. Gliscor's Acrobatics will also trouble Venusaur.

    Mega Pinsir can decimate with an Aerilate boosted Return if it can find a moment to switch in, even having a (small) chance of OHKOing Max/Max Bold Mega Venusaur at +0, just to put its power into perspective. Mega Charizard Y also troubles Mega Venusaur for basically the same reasons as the previously listed Flying-types, however it won't like a Sludge Bomb, Sleep Powder or Hidden Power Rock on the switch in, and even it can't guarantee an OHKO with a Drought boosted Fire Blast, thanks to Thick Fat.

    Both Lati twins can trouble Mega Venusaur if they can avoid being put to sleep, as they have enough bulk to take a Sludge Bomb fairly well, pack reliable recovery, and have powerful Psychic STABs to break into Mega Venusaur with.

    If Heatran can avoid an Earthquake, it can take Mega Venusaur down pretty easily in spite of Thick Fat. Slower defensive versions will have trouble breaking through Leech Seed and Synthesis recovery though, and it's worth noting that Heatran is not immune to Sleep.

    In a similar vein, Scizor has little trouble switching in, but will not like being put to sleep, and Hidden Power Fire will maim if not kill. Once either are in safely though, they can both threaten Mega Venusaur massively. Scizor can set up with Swords Dance(s), and both can pummel with boosted U-turns (assuming Choice Band). Venusaur can recover with Synthesis if timed well, but it cannot take hits forever.

    Espeon cannot directly switch in, due to it being relatively frail, but its powerful Psychic STABs can put huge dents in Mega Venusaur, and Magic Bounce allows it to deflect any Leech Seeds or Sleep Powders that are thrown its way. Other Psychic types, such as (Mega) Alakazam, can hit Venusaur as well.

    While rare, Chesnaught can take almost everything from Venusaur sans Hidden Power Fire, and can set up Spikes on it as well.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2014
  2. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Underappreciated

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    Changes I made:
    *Growth Venusaur is too easily revenge killed by the likes of Talonflame.
    *Psychic and Flying type attacks somewhat common; some Pokemon, such as Landorus and Keldeo, carry Psychic and Hidden Power Flying just for Mega Venusaur.
    *I removed mentions of Genesect since it is banned.

    Changes I want to make:
    *I do not think Fighting types are the best way to remove special walls like Chansey. No Chansey is going to stay in on them.
    *Honestly, I think Venusaur's defensive set should just run the 16 speed EVs so it can cleanly beat Azumarill and not get outsped by Mega Mawile.
    More

    I will get to grammar, but I think there are some things that should be double-checked before we get to grammar.
     
  3. Samphire

    Samphire Too much hard work!

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    @Alfalfa, if you feel this is not at the grammar stage yet as you have said in your most recent post, can you please edit the thread tag to state so? Otherwise I'll get someone to go over this.
     
  4. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Underappreciated

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    Very well then.
     
  5. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Underappreciated

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    I edited out some of the fluff in the analysis, but I still have not looked over the entirety of it, as I currently have something else I need to do.
     
  6. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Underappreciated

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    @Finchinator @Rohail @TRC @Mew2Hidden @Nog I do not want this analysis to be sitting here, untouched for months, like a lot of analyses here do...
     
    Arceus_17 likes this.
  7. trc

    trc Active Member

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    And I don't want people being self-entitled petulant brats but we don't always get what we want, do we.
     
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  8. Enei

    Enei WAFSTB

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    Don't see why you're being so hostile towards this user, as he was just bumping his analysis and asking for QC members to look over it, since he posted it almost a month ago and not a single QC member looked at it, and he has a point that there are a lot of analyses on here still in the Skeleton phase.
     
    Alfalfa, Arceus_17 and Virizion like this.
  9. Gandalf!

    Gandalf! New Member

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    Chesnaught deserves a mention, as it can take anything Venusaur does.
    Although Ches is unable to hit hard in return, it can set up Spikes and stall Venusaur out of useful PP from Synthesis and Giga Drain.
     
  10. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Underappreciated

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    Chesnaught added
     
  11. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    Ohai there Alf, and thanks for reviving this thread. As you've probably guessed, my internet connection has all but died recently, and thus I can't continue with my online commitments. :(

    Anything you feel is worth changing about what I've done, feel free.
     
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  12. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Underappreciated

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    Moving offensive to the first set, because that is the most useful set. Defensive Venu is only really for stall, and some stall teams run Zard X to beat stallbreaker Mew anyways.
     
  13. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Underappreciated

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    I am dropping this; I had used it back in XY, but I really do not understand it as well in ORAS, and this analysis needs to be re-written from an ORAS perspective. Definitely keep the changes I made though in gutting the positive mention of Chlorophyll, that set is still complete garbage.