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Suspect Discussion: Scolipede

Discussion in 'Gen 6 UU' started by JeyTheGrey, Oct 10, 2014.

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  1. JeyTheGrey

    JeyTheGrey PWRFL!! YOU NEED A REVIVE!

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    [​IMG]
    All credit goes to Gigabyte (somerandomguy) for making this masterpiece of art​

    Discuss the possibility of Scolipede being banned in the XY UU tier.
    Use this thread to discuss Scolipede's effect in the metagame. Talk about the different sets it can use, its best partners + team support and potential checks & counters. State your opinion on whether you think Scolipede should be banned or if it should stay in the XY UU tier.

    All opinions are welcome! Arguments amongst players are allowed, as long as you're able to back it up with reasoning and knowledge of having played or having faced Scolipede in the XY UU tier. Refrain from making your entire points based on responses to others and don't just say "it's broken" or "it's not broken".
    Theorymon is not a valid argument and should not be used and may result in an infraction. Posters should also address other posters' arguments, not the actual posters themselves.
    If a consensus among players cannot be reached by the end of the suspect discussion period, a vote will be held.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2014
  2. Dånte

    Dånte Member

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    Scolipede is an excellent Pokémon in the UU metagame due to Scolipede's above average offensive characteristics and support characteristics. Below are what I consider to be relevant moves from the Global Usage Statistics of Scolipede.

    RankNameUsage
    1| Baton Pass | 69.32 %
    2| Swords Dance | 69.24 %
    3| Protect | 55.86 %
    4| Megahorn | 37.05 %
    5| Poison Jab | 36.57 %
    6| Earthquake | 31.63 %
    7| Substitute | 26.14 %
    8| X-Scissor | 21.75 %
    9| Iron Defense | 11.47 %
    10| Toxic Spikes | 10.60 %
    11| Spikes | 8.21 %
    12| Rock Slide | 6.29 %



    The standard offensive set is Poison Jab, Megahorn/X-Scissor, Earthquake/Baton Pass(/rarely Rock Slide), and Swords Dance with either Life Orb or Focus Sash. This set has the ability to sweep a wide range of teams, including those that rely on common walls such as Slowbro, Mew, Florges, and Umbreon after just 1 turn of setup. Hyper Offensive teams typically lack the typing or defenses required to deal with Scolipede outside of priority. Worse still is that Scolipede is efficient with only STAB attacks and can Baton Pass to something else to finish up the sweep. I feel there are very few counters to this set to this set but Crobat, Sableye, Forretress, Quagsire, Defensive Salamence, and a few others can check or revenge kill with priority if Scolipede lacks baton pass.

    As a support sets, the most common move set is Swords Dance, Baton Pass, Substitute, and Protect. Any one of Scolipede's offensive moves or Spikes, T-Spikes, and Iron Defense from Scolipede's support moves could take a spot in the previous mentioned set and still be completely viable. Counters to this set are extremely situational. Hazers and Phazers can deal with Scolipede before it Baton Passes. Sableye can stop it dead in it's tracks with priority taunt. Quagsire can come in and ignore the boosts but loses to the Baton Pass recipient if it carries Grass coverage. Crobat has the ability to hit behind subs, but is out sped after 1 or 2 speed boosts depending on Scolipede's EV's.

    Scolipede can reliably sweep a variety of teams with 1 turn of setup and/or have the ability to set up situations in which it is substantially easier for other Pokémon to sweep. I believe that Scolipede is ban worthy due to Scolipedes offensive and support characteristics.

    Current accounts as of Oct 13:
    (16:51:22) ±Porygon: Müshü's rank in XY UU is 13/11591 [28 battles]!
    (16:50:37) ±Porygon: Your rank in XY UU is 13/11591 [1401 points / 28 battles]!

    (16:52:20) ±Porygon: Dånte's rank in XY UU is 25/11591 [28 battles]!
    (16:51:56) ±Porygon: Your rank in XY UU is 25/11591 [1320 points / 28 battles]!
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2014
    J0RIS and Kody like this.
  3. ThatMushroom

    ThatMushroom The Spirit Molecule

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    If only byte was as good a player as he is an artist
    I'll start off with potential counters to Scol. Countering Scolipede is a really difficult task. Roar/Dtail users in the tier aren't too common right now, Mega Agg isn't running Roar as much now..the other two mons that would run it are like Swampert and Rhyperior but they could be running better moves like dual STAB+Ice Beam/Toxic and Rocks for Swampert and dual STAB+Protect/coverage move and Rocks for Rhyperior. I guess you could throw in defensive Mence with Dtail there too but it has so many better options than Dtail.
    I find Roar and Dtail just outclassed by a lot, they're just not that great right now. Like things that Rhyp might want to Roar out that would set up would be like Zygarde, Lucario, Thundy-T, Scolipede, etc., but Rhyp can just OHKO like 3/4 of those with one of its STABs and really dent Zygarde with Ice Punch if it's running it. Why would you want to Roar those things and end up with like less than 20% health in the process when you could seriously damage or OHKO them instead. I can't think of anything right now that Rhyp would rather Roar than hit it with a STAB, so yea I find Roar or Dtail pretty pointless on these mons and a waste of a moveslot. Basically the only reason you'd want to run Roar is to prevent Scolipede's SD/SB recipient from grabbing those boosts, which is a shame because coverage moves or status on those mons is really crucial..like for Swamp Ice Beam allows it to check most Dragons in the tier etc.

    The only other solutions iirc are like Quags or Sableye, but even if you pack one of these (even though phazing moves on the first 3 mons and Quags are pretty rare), Scol can just pass to whatever it wants. Whatever you bring in, it can pass to something that destroys your check or counter to it and whatever it passes to will at least have +1 Speed behind it, and more often than not +2. Some slower powerhouses with +2 Speed like Nidoking or Magnezone is really hard to stop, for example.

    Scolipede by itself as a sweeper is also no joke. I think it's one of the, if not the best anti-meta mon right now. Being able to simultaneously destroy Mew, Florges, Umbreon, and Mega Aggron (Heavy Slam barely does 25, +2 EQ 2HKOes) is pretty terrifying. As a sweeper it does good vs like any playstyle. I've actually been using Scol a lot, and tbh it's really fun abusing it because I've literally swept almost every team I've played. This is the set I've been using.

    Scolipede (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Speed Boost
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Megahorn
    - Poison Jab
    - Earthquake/Rock Slide
    - Swords Dance
    Rock Slide would only be good vs Crobat and MAero iirc. Otherwise EQ is the superior choice for hitting stuff like Agg or Terrak.

    Every time I've swept a team, all I needed was one SD. I prefer Life Orb over Sash because LO guarantees OHKOes on like Mega Blast and stuff, and the team I'm using it on is pretty fat and I'll wait for the right time to set up that SD. On HO teams though that don't have a wall of lard synergising with Scol, I'd say Sash is probably the better item because they don't have the luxury of waiting til the right time to set up. Even with the lack of Life Orb though, Scol nets an OHKO on a large majority of the tier at +2. After one Speed Boost, pretty much nothing in the tier is outspeeding it bar like Scarf Raikou/Scarf Weavile, both of which are non-existent.

    I think other set up moves like Iron Defense+SD pass or Spikes lead are really underutilized, they're both really solid imo but they're outclassed by the sweeper sets or passing sets (which don't have Iron Defense).

    With it being imo the most dangerous sweeper in the tier, the lack of common counters, and it being able to easily pass to Speed/Sub/SD to something that destroys the counter you brought in, I think for the betterment of the tier it should be banned..even if it is fun abusing it.
     
  4. JeyTheGrey

    JeyTheGrey PWRFL!! YOU NEED A REVIVE!

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    Seing as there is not much to add, Scolipede works excellently as an offensive Pokemon, getting access to Swords Dance and has the Ability Speed Boost. This makes it a big threat, because you basically have to run Priority on offensive teams to knock it out, because it can quickly become faster than any scarfer, even with Adamant nature. On top of that, it has a great coverage with its movepool, making it hard to counter or check, even with balanced teams.
    It is unpredictable in what it does, meaning that it can be support (with T-Spikes and Spikes / Endeavoir) or a sweeper. It can even be a Baton passer, so even if you get Scolipede low and threaten to kill it soon, or have a good counter to it, it can pass its boosts to another Pokemon that has the ability to sweep your team after the needed boosts.
    Overall Scolipede is unhealthy for the metagame and will be banned from XY UU!
     
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