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Suspect Discussion: Alakazite (Banned)

Discussion in 'Gen 6 UU' started by Just Do It, Mar 26, 2015.

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  1. Just Do It

    Just Do It No one cares

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    Credits to @da raikage for the painting

    Discuss the possibility of Alakazite being banned from the ORAS UU tier.

    Use this thread to discuss Mega Alakazam's effect on the metagame. Talk about different sets it can use, possible partners and team support, and potential checks and counters. State your opinion on whether Alakazite should be banned or if it should stay in the ORAS UU tier.

    All opinions are valid and discussion among players is not only allowed but encouraged, provided your opinion has solid reasoning and displays having playing with or having playing against Mega Alakazam in the tier. Do not simply state "it's broken" or "it's not broken".

    If you're unsure about posting, check out this guide and post anyway.​
     
  2. E.T.

    E.T. Proud Member Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader

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    I’ve been using Mega Alakazam since a little after ORAS started, and I would say that it is definitely too much for the tier. The set that I’ve been using probably isn’t even its best set either. I’ve been using a Timid set with Psychic, Shadow Ball, Focus Blast, and Protect. While running Timid in UU might seem weird, I like it because it prevents slower scarfers from being able to revenge kill it, and it still outspeeds things like Jolly Mega Beedrill, +1 Sharpedo, and Mega Sceptile. Protect lets me scout scarfers and/or Mega evolve safely so that I can possibly outspeed them. Bulky things like Florges can be a problem for this set, but alternatively, Mega Alakazam can run Calm Mind to get around mons like that. Trace is also a much more useful ability that it may appear to be at first glance. Intimidate, Infiltrator, Adaptability, Levitate, Serene Grace, Sheer Force, Sturdy, No Guard, Natural Cure, Regenerator, Magnet Pull, Water Absorb, etc. are all helpful abilities that Mega Alakazam can trace. There isn’t much that I can see that can reliably stop Mega Alakazam. Sucker Punch usually does a good job of dealing with it, but this can be very easy to play around, so it isn't very reliable. Other forms of priority are usually too weak to get the OHKO.
    (example: 252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Alakazam: 192-228 (76.4 - 90.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO)
    Pursuit trapping is another option, but Dark type users have to be careful not to get smacked by a super effective Focus Blast/Dazzling Gleam.

    Here are a few Pokemon that can try to check it without outspeeding it with a scarf.
    Assault Vest Entei can OHKO with Fire STAB or 2HKO with E-Speed, and it is 3HKO'd at most by Mega Alakazam without Psyshock (which 2hkos) but it is weak to SR and can be worn down. Conditional check.
    AV Snorlax is another Pokemon that can attempt to Pursuit trap Mega Alakazam or nuke it with Normal STAB, but if Mega Alakazam decides to stay in on the Pursuit, Snorlax can be 2HKO’d by Focus Blast. Shaky check.
    Klefki can cripple it with T-Wave, but even Special Defensive variants can be 2HKO’d by Modest Mega Alakazam Focus Blast. Good check.
    (252+ SpA Mega Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Klefki: 141-167 (44.4 - 52.6%) -- 22.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery)
    Specially Defensive Porgon2 is another shaky check if it has T-Wave. It has to be very careful though because it can be 2HKO’d by Focus Blast.
    (252+ SpA Mega Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 180-212 (48.1 - 56.6%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO
    Spiritomb can check variants without Dazzling Gleam, and it can Sucker Punch and/or Pursuit. Decent Check.
    AV Escavalier is a good check that can pursuit trap unless Mega Alakazam runs HP Fire.
    (252+ SpA Mega Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 174 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 115-136 (35.4 - 41.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO)
    .
    Notice that most of these can't switch in safely all of the time, and all but Porygon2 lack reliable recovery.

    There are also several faster scarfers that can try to revenge kill it such as Hydreigon, Jirachi, Victini, Infernape, Staraptor, Darminitan, Heracross, and Krookodile, but since most of these are weak to one of Mega Alakazam’s coverage moves, most will have trouble switching in safely. The Protect set that I use also allows these to be scouted, so the appropriate action can be taken. This post only scratches the surface in portraying how good Mega Alakazam is in ORAS UU, as later posts will hopefully show. I definitely think that Mega Alakazam’s speed and power make it too good for ORAS UU and it should be banned.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2015
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  3. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    Strangely enough, I see Alakazite as a very comparable suspect to the Aeodactylite one they're holding in LU.

    Both are very powerful, very fast threats with a less than stellar ability, but one they can abuse somewhat well, and while both have a somewhat large number of checks, a lot of those checks are screwed if the 'mon runs a difference coverage move, making them fast, powerful, and unpredictable.

    While I've only faced one MegaZam in my limited UU laddering experience, it had the misfortune to die to a crit, so I never got to really see it in action.

    I know this wasn't the most informative post, but I'm leaning towards ban.
     
  4. karkinos

    karkinos Lord Of The Car Keys

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    Due to its 372 speed (if timid) before the MegaEvo, Protect isn't really necessary, therefore I run Psyshock/Shadow Ball/Dazzling Gleam/Calm Mind. I personally prefer DazzGleam over Focus Blast because of the misses the latter tends to give you. Even so, Mega Alakazam will have a very hard time taking down Umbreon, to add to the above list, and it does not enjoy seeing non-scarfed Rachi on the opponents team either:

    252 SpA Mega Alakazam Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 132-156 (33.5 - 39.5%) -- 20.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 SpA Mega Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 196-232 (49.7 - 58.8%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 SpA Mega Alakazam Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Jirachi: 218-258 (53.9 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    0- Atk Umbreon Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Alakazam: 152-180 (60.5 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    where Umbreon has access to Foul Play that takes quite a chunk as well as Protect and Wish. Even if Focus Blast hits two times in a row, Umbreon won't be 2KOed due to Protect. Rachi can always force it out as the threat of TWave is enough to scare MegaZam away. Against non-CM sets, Cresselia and Suicune are viable switch-ins, as both have reliable recovery:

    252 SpA Mega Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 163-193 (40.3 - 47.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery -- Psyshock does less dmg obv
    252 SpA Mega Alakazam Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Cresselia: 174-206 (39.1 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery -- and Cresselia can comfortably set up some CMs.

    Note that Alakazam will have some trouble being up against Crobat or Weavile if it has not MegaEvolved yet and lacks protect, but that should only be a minor issue, as its blazing 438 speed after the MegaEvo even let it outspeed timid scarf Chandelure (!) .

    To find some more checks...Empoleon completely walls sets lacking Focus Blast, being able to wear it down with scald (no calcs needed, that is common sense). Mega Blastoise is able to kill it 1v1, but cannot switch in:
    252+ SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Alakazam: 308-364 (122.7 - 145%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Dark Pulse vs. +1 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Alakazam: 206-244 (82 - 97.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 SpA Mega Alakazam Psychic vs. 236 HP / 0 SpD Mega Blastoise: 163-193 (45.5 - 53.9%) -- 46.5% chance to 2HKO
    +1 252 SpA Mega Alakazam Psychic vs. 236 HP / 0 SpD Mega Blastoise: 246-289 (68.7 - 80.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    wins even if Mega Alakazam gets a CM up while the toise is in. Aerodactyl wins if both are in normal form and forces a speed tie if both are in mega form, whereas Honchkrow forces mindgames, at the very least, being able to catch a switch with pursuit as well as killing Zam with Sucker Punch. Lower down in the stats, Sharpedo has no problem whatsoever in dealing with Zam, although it fears coverage moves (only on the switch-in though) and Sash Cloyster can set up and go kill it in return. Even in combination with what @E.T. mentioned, there probably still are more answers.

    Finally, pretty much every decent Scarf user kills it, as @E.T. has already mentioned, bar Chandelure, which is too slow. Apart from the stuff mentioned above, Mega Alakazam has tremendous wrecking potential in UU, sporting decent coverage, great special attack and speed as well as a nice boosting move in Calm Mind. That said, it is still frail, while also fearing paralysis while being unable to OHKO common paralysis users...and while I agree with what @Spoovo The Pirate says, in a way, Mega Alakazam has the problem that UU has many more fast scarfers available than LU, turning Alakazam into less of a problem. I am not yet decided, but at the moment I think the tier can handle Alakazam. Unless convinced otherwise by later posts, I'd lean toward no ban.
     
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  5. ThatMushroom

    ThatMushroom The Spirit Molecule

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    Please don't compare two different mons in two different tiers, they're completely different and as a general rule of thumb its a shitty argument.

    I don't think you could've been vaguer and wronger if you tried, not even gnna bother responding.

    I agree that it's banworthy but please be more detailed as these types of post don't help pro-ban or anti-ban.

    Focus Blast should be mandatory, with Focus Blast on your set you basically ensure you have no counters whatsoever. P2, Snorlax, Umbreon, Forre, Empoleon, all get smashed.
    Umbreon is forced to Protect if it wants to live the second Focus Blast which gives Zam a chance to CM. You can argue that this requires prediction but the need to Protect far outweighs Zam's need to CM, especially since some Zam don't run CM so it's safe to assume that the Umbreon will almost always Protect. Once Zam gets one CM up, it's basically a wrap for the entire tier. Things that could previously barely avoid the 2HKO from FBlast if they were at 100% (which is not a common scenario cuz these are walls) like Porygon2 and Vest Snorlax take like 70%. Even without the CM, the only [common] mons that don't get 2HKOed by it's coverage are P2, Snorlax and Umbreon and this is only if they are at 100%.
    Also, MegaZam's bulk is bad but not atrocious. With 0 attack IVs, which you forgot in your calcs, it only takes around 49% from Foul Play from Umbreon and a Tri Attack from P2 only does like 40%, even less if it has a CM under it's belt.


    It can boost up in Suicune's face and will win because of Psyshock, at +1 SpDef Scald does a pathetic 23%.

    I don't think comfortably is the right word. For one, CM Cress is doing no damage to Zam meaning Zam can boost up on it as well, and the inevitability of a SpDef will have Zam likely winning because Cress will continue to need to Moonlight giving it more chances to SpDef drop.
    I haven't seen a Zam have trouble just Mega Evolving, but on the topic of it's speed..it's retardedly good. Outspeeding Mega Beedrill, Terrak, Weavile, basically anything barring Scarfers.

    Mega Blastoise is a decent check but that's all it is, and like 99% of it's "checks" are handled by Florges which is a common partner to Zam. Blastoise can only switch in once, the second time it switches in it's going to be around 75% from the second Psyshock, then Zam can just outspeed and kill it off.

    Seems like a very specific scenario that shouldn't even be worth mentioning.

    I wouldn't count on Honchkrow as a check because of the CM/Sucker Punch games..it also dies if it switches in on a Focus Blast if it's not at at least 90% which isn't too common because Life Orb and Brave Bird wear that thing down super easily.

    I think you're forgetting about Trace..unless you want to sack something to Zam to force it to Trace the mon you just sacked, which leads in to my next point.

    Scarfers, again as a general rule of thumb, is a horrible argument because you can apply that point to every offensive mon in the game. D00d sack somethin and Scarfer saves the day!!
    If a mon is so overwhelming that your only way of dealing with it is to sack something to bring in a Scarfer to force it out (which doesn't even ensure you kill it depending on the makeup of the Zam user's team), it's safe to say that mon is pretty broken.

    So yes, a combination of speed, power, and complete lack of counters makes MegaZam broken as fuck. Ban pls
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2015
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  6. NananaBatman

    NananaBatman Well-Known Member

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    Zam was going to sweep you :/


    On to karkinos' post, I think some of your points are fairly weak and I'll explain why.

    You mention how zam doesn't enjoy seeing non-scarfed Jirachi on the other side of the field, but the spread you provided is cleanly 2HKOd by 1 of the most common moves on zam. While I agree most sweepers dislike mons they cannot OHKO, mispredict only once and your check is done for. I'll still give u the fact Jirachi can probably force it out a few times and prevent the sweep.

    I disagree with the idea of adding umbreon to the "safe checks" list. It's a check, but you lose to +1 zam (if it's hitting focus blast). Setting up cm on the switch is, often times, a pretty damn easy play to make, considering the amount of stuff mega zam forces out (risk vs reward...). Also, if zam is packing encore (encore is a fantastic move on such a fast mon), umbreon will lose the second it clicks a move that isn't foul play.

    You mentionned suicune as a viable switch in, and I disagree with this. You mentionned suicune has viable recovery, while it only has access to rest. I wouldn't mind if zam did less than 38% damage to it with its stab move (38% guarantees a 3hko) and thus cune could restloop zam. However, that is not the case. Also, switching into rocks or with any kind of prior damage is pretty damn risky; the only way you will win is by using rest and talking some calm minds (assuming you were healthy enough to live 2 psychics. With rocks, you will need to be pretty damn near full). Notice how cune, like umbreon, can lose to encore zam (and by "can", I mean "will"). CM+ psyshock is likely to win, and switching in with zam using cm is an almost guaranteed loss. I don't understand how cune is a viable switch-in.

    I'll give you cress, zam will need cm+shadow ball to hope to beat it. If you can avoid getting encored, you're fine.

    I don't understand why you mentionned blastoise as a check and then said it cannot switch in.
    As for empoleon, I don't have access to usage stats, but I've played enough uu to be fairly certain that focus blast is pretty common.
    252 SpA Mega Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 234-276 (63 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery.
    Pray it misses I guess.

    Honchkrow, absol, and krook (scarfed) are all somewhat reliable answers to zam, if you can get them in safely (or after something died...). However, sharpedo will only win if you bring it on psyshock. It cannot win 1 vs 1 because Alakazam has access to trace.

    Cloyster is a pretty damn poor check, it needs to have its sash intact to have a shot at winning. The same thing can be said about every sashed mon ever, so I don't know what you were trying to prove by mentionning it.

    Fearing paralysis should be a given for any sweeper ever. I think you should have mentionned common paralysis inducers to prove your point ( I'm assuming cress and rachi were the ones you had in mind since you used them in your post, but zam is probably not going to stay in on them, t-wave or not).

    Saying that most scarfers can revenge a glass cannon doesn't really prove anything either. However, some of uu's common scarfers can switch safely into some of zam's moves, making them "not too horrible" answers for zam on HO teams, so I guess that's a minor con for zam (I'd list hydreigon, victini, krookodile and jirachi as the most reliable (and common) switch-ins). Most other scarfers will get destroyed by psychic stab. That's probably why HO teams usually have a lot of trouble dealing with mega zam, because it outspeeds pretty much everything and is pretty much unstoppable to stop if it sets 1 cm up (most times, it won't even need to vs HO).

    The thing with zam is it's very effective against offense AND stall. Calm mind sets are ridiculously hard to stop for stall teams, and encore is super annoying and great at screwing walls up. Encore can even benefit another sweeper on zam's team, giving it free setup opportunity (that's a lot of support if you consider it's coming from such an offensive monster). Zam also has access to taunt, which is, like encore, a very good move vs stall teams.

    The fact that it has so few reliable switch-ins, coupled with its outstanding stallbreaking abilities makes me think mega alakazam is unhealthy for the meta.
     
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  7. E.T.

    E.T. Proud Member Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader

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    I see people beat me to it, but I'll post this anyway. My comments are in bold.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2015
  8. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    And yet you did. =/

    All I did was state an opinion, dude. I didn't have enough experience facing against MegaZam to post much about him, so I just brought up what I thought. Not every post has to be an essay.

    Nothing of what I said was wrong; it is very fast, it is very powerful, and there's a decent level of unpredictability to it due to its fairly decent movepool.

    To stop this being spam, I'll reinstate what I said last time; I've no real reason to vote against banning it, other than it perhaps opening up new holes in the metagame which may destabilise it more.

    Quite possibly, yeah. Not something we'll ever know now, though.
     
  9. snaga

    snaga .

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    I don't see why people never mention encore, it's arguably the best 4th move for Mega Zam aside from calm mind.

    Lately I've been using a set that is Psychic/Focus blast(Signal Beam/Shadow Ball)/Encore/Calm mind Besides the trouble of picking the second coverage move this set worked extremely well for me. It allowed me to set up on mons like umbreon/blissey/florges.

    On top of Mega Zam's huge power it has a speed stat is only matched by Mega Aerodactyl and Ninjask(lol).

    Also referring to the "I'll just bring my scarf Krook and pursuit trap jaja argument" Say krook comes in and traps Zam this allows mons like Terrakion/Lucario come in and get a free swords dance up and proceed to sweep your team :]

    Zam's ability trace is also pretty nice because it allows it to freely switch in Vaporeon and it can revenge kill magneton because of magnet pull, come in on choiced locked chandy, trace natural cure from blissey and so on.

    I'll ignore Kark because he's been torn apart enough :[


    ANYWAYS with Zam's amazing power and awesome speed stat it has the ability to run though teams and even beat its common checks with encore/calm mind so I vote for a BAN
     
  10. karkinos

    karkinos Lord Of The Car Keys

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    @NananaBatman
    -we should not forget togekiss, also able to force zam out, while it, like jirachi, will have trouble switching in, as a paralysis spreader.
    -Focus Blast is not too common, it is used on the 3rd and 4th-most used sets only. It's fine to argue with it, but 70 acc is unreliable, no one can argue that. Especially since it needs the coverage FB/DazzGleam provide very dearly if it wants to catch checks on the switch.
    -I was trying mention that a somewhat often used mon in UU can take care of Zam. not more, not less.
    -Encore may be viable atm, but if you look at stats - only sets #15 and #23 even run it. even if it is a good option, zam misses the coverage, and, as said, it is not used.
    -otherwise points taken, even though I can still not agree with your conclusion. MegaZam is able to do various things, but offense as well as stall have their ways of stopping it. OFC that does not mean it's not broken.

    @ThatMushroom and @E.T.
    -pls do not assume MegaZam always runs CM and is ready to set up on everything. It is not and does not. Please look at the stats page, there are other viable options. I used the example of CMZam to illustrate my own experience only.
    -to correct my Aerodactyl statement: if no hazards are up it always wins if it has crunch, and has nice chances of doing so even without: 252 Atk Mega Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Alakazam: 238-282 (94.8 - 112.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
    -You will end up banging your head against the wall if you try to kill Zam's checks with Focus Blast in more than 2 ladder matches straight.
    -okay, i forgot the IVs. thanks.

    @snaga thanks for being so considerate :[ it's hard to argue anything here if some ppl will just violently post to get everything banned that gets a suspect. no offense.

    i probably forgot to mention some stuff concerning your posts. well, i will end up making this argument again: depending on what kind of role Zam has on the team, it will either have trouble with bulky mons/stall if it does not run encore/taunt or have trouble killing offensive mons if it lacks coverage. Good points were made, I'm not on the clear anti-ban side anymore, as the reasoning is good. But please keep in mind it would be yet another offensive powerhouse vanishing. Yes, @ThatMushroom will start flaming again, but please don't just go and eradicate every damn offensive threat in the tier.
     
  11. Weavile

    Weavile Phoenix

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    I see it's been decided that being classless in a suspect is the way to go. I'm sure that's gonna convince people that you're right dear Mushroom.

    As it stands I'd probably lean well towards you being right. As I and many others have said since Mid-Late XY, Mega Zam just isn't cool in UU. It's extremely fast and extremely strong (especially considering it doesn't need Timid for basically anything short of other Zams and a few slower scarfers). As if the power and speed weren't enough you also have a pretty great movepool to back it all up, iced with an interesting ability that can net you something really nuts like Sheer Force sometimes or something completely useless like Guts at other times (or something in between and cool like No Guard). Focus Blast / Psychic(Psyshock obviously) / Shadow Ball / CM / Encore / (I'd consider that all you'll ever need but I guess Dazzling Gleam exists?)

    Of course Zam is frail as shit physically. That's fairly obvious it's Zam, that's what Zam does. 55/65 is pretty dire. 55/95 isn't great but it's not awful enough to call it a real weakness for an offensive mon like this. But then does that matter a whole lot when all that can hit it are a select set of fast scarfers on a revenge kill (Well faster than approximately Chandelure (unless Zam is Timid but eh it shouldn't be).), some fat mon like Blissey, which can't really deal with Psyshock but will basically always get a move off unless you let Zam have 2 free turns in which case you might want to stop playing, or you mispredict and switch it in on a Psyshock raw. As far as counters go your best bet is probably Umbreon. You can get it in on a Psychic or Shadow Ball and they'll have to hit a Focus Blast double at the very least to beat you. Which is 49%. But there's also the factor that Zam could run Encore which would completely fuck you over if you try to Wish or Protect (or heal bell but why the fuck would you even consider that 99.9% of the time), or Calm Mind which won't go well for Umbreon if its played smart. But here lies one pretty good check in a sea of Pokémon that are just run through by Mega Zam. You also have some other things like AV Snorlax or whatever that can eat a hit or two and dispose of Mega Zam (ideally with Pursuit but who knows that might even get you killed) but some of these (like AV Lax) lack any recovery at all outside of potential Wish-Passing.

    So yeah as much as I hate to side with the classless he's right on the general idea. Mega Zam makes defensive play disproportionately difficult because defensive checks to Mega Zam are just far far too few (i.e. there's like 1.5 and) and too unreliable.

    Edit: Karkinos
    it's not really about the usage it's about Mega Zam's best set. Which I would argue is Calm Mind in general, but Encore is potentially a good idea depending on your specific needs. I would definitely argue that STAB/Focus Blast/Shadow Ball is the essential set of attacks for most Zam sets.

    Also holy shit Mega Zam can survive 252 Mega Aero's Stone Edge???
     
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  12. ThatMushroom

    ThatMushroom The Spirit Molecule

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    This is from OP: All opinions are valid and discussion among players is not only allowed but encouraged, provided your opinion has solid reasoning and displays having playing with or having playing against Mega Alakazam in the tier.

    You were wrong with a few of your points. For one, it doesn't have a large number of checks, and secondly it rarely if ever runs moves other than Psyshock/Shadow Ball/Focus Blast, so it's checks or lack there of don't depend on it having the wrong coverage move. It has perfect coverage with just those 3.

    Again, this is vague and theorymon.

    -Usage stats literally mean nothing. The #1 most used Zam set atm has Energy Ball.
    -Crunch is very rare in UU since no Mew or Slowbro anymore, and it's a speed tie.
    -Bottom line is that it's a 70% accurate move, you can't say it doesn't destroy it's counters as if it's using a 50% accurate move.

    What coverage are you talking about?? Psyshock/Shadow Ball/Focus Blast gives it perfect coverage and it's speed is so retarded that your best bet is to either attempt a speed tie with MegaAero or revenge kill with Scarf or priority.
    How does it have trouble vs bulky mons? I just explained how literally every common wall gets shit on by it's coverage.
    .

    lel, yes it's just me who suggests these suspects. Because I'm trying to ban Nidoking, NP Lucario, Haxorus and other insane stallbreakers that take some teambuilding skills to use.
     
  13. NananaBatman

    NananaBatman Well-Known Member

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    The fact that x move(or moveset) is not popular in usage does not mean it is a bad move. I'm not fond of example/comparisons, but mixtini is pretty damn low on usage stats, and it's 1 of the best victini sets (not comparing zam and tini here, just saying usage stats are not to be taken super seriously).

    Defensive Togekiss is very likely to be 2HKOd after rocks by psyshock, I wouldn't call it a reliable stop to zam (considering defensive toge is often used as a defogger, switching on rocks is totally in the realm of possibilities). It CAN work, but it's a risky thing to switch toge directly in.

    I assume you are talking about blastoise here. And by "taking care" I assume you mean you can sack something and then force zam out with blastoise. I agree it may work/save your ass in some scenarios, but said scenario implies you have lost a pokemon in the process, and that does nothing to prove that mega zam isn't broken (you sacked a mon to force it out).

    I think most users here currently agree that HO needs to use a scarfer to force out/kill mega zam. That's not "stopping it" (unless you are pursuit trapping it). Stall struggles a LOT against mega zam, as very few mons can actually deal with the common sets. Being able to force it out once or twice doesn't mean you are stopping it.


    I'm also on the pro-ban side and I think most of what you said is true, except for that 1 part. You need timid on zam, otherwise mega beedrill is going to be pretty freaking annoying, stopping your sweeps and essentially getting a free u-turn.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2015
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  14. Sakuya Izayoi

    Sakuya Izayoi love to hate

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    mega alakazam is pretty much the epitome of a revenge-killer, base 150 speed is just blisteringly fast and you can only revenge it w/ prio or an even faster scarfer (btw it outruns even scarf chandelure, hydreigon and victini is really the only two common scarfers from the top off my head that outruns) even stall isn't safe vs it because they lack offensive presence and mega zam will always pack either cm/taunt/encore, the former makes stall even more pressured to deal with it quicker and cannot afford to let it grab more boosts under its belt, the latter two simply disrupts stall and prevents recovery etc. psychic/dazzling gleam/shadow ball pretty much give you all the coverage you need to hit, altho feel free to throw in energy ball to wreck bulky waters and focus blast if you want to hit steels even harder altho shadow ball is usually enough to do sufficient damage vs them. its simply hard to play around mega zam and its only drawback is that it obviously is a mega and hence has opportunity cost; you cant run another mega alongside it. while uu is in a state where there is plenty of strong physical priority from the likes of cb entei/craw/mamo etc it still does not deny the fact that mega zam is really hard to switch into. also base 120 speed pre mega means it isnt even that difficult to mega since most of the tier is slower than it anyway and it can just pick off a weakened mon while also going for mega. it's always fun to trace nidoking's sheer force and then go to town.
     
  15. bugzinator

    bugzinator Well-Known Member

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    As far as I'm concerned this is the best zam set
    Alakazam (M) @ Alakazite
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Psychic / Psyshock
    - Focus Blast
    - Shadow Ball
    - Calm Mind / Encore

    Can find plenty of chances to sneak a CM on weaker special attackers like Florges (Which isn't a check to zam) while the coverage 2hkos everything meaning you have no safe switches. Psyshock is an option to hit some assualt vest mons and blissey harder and Encore can be cool too.

    I think people have already been discussing how Alakazam 2hkos most of the tier with it's special attack and coverage, and how it outspeeds everything except scarfers, just gonna post some calcs showing how easily it can beat some walls and reply to some of the poor anti ban arguments I've saw.

    Zam vs some walls
    Snorlax - 252 SpA Mega Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Snorlax: 202-238 (43.8 - 51.6%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO - 2hkod by focus blast with rocks and lives a pursuit if you stay in making even lax shaky af
    Umbreon - 252 SpA Mega Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 196-232 (49.7 - 58.8%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery - 2hkod by focus blast and if you try to protect for lefties it can sneak a cm or lock you in with encore!
    Florges - Gets CMd on and loses
    Blissey - 252 SpA Mega Alakazam Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 297-351 (41.5 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery - Can do okay but hates Encore sets and needs t wave to stop zams that wanna cm

    edit - would also like to point out how everything can be pretty much fucked if zam traces the right ability n_n

    Response to some of the anti ban arguments that I've saw including poor bulk and easy to revenge kill
    Bulk is poor yes, but that isn't much of a set back considering zam is faster than everything and doesn't need to take hits, only time the poor bulk comes into play is vs priority attacks and Zam still manages to live things like CB Entei Espeed at full health.

    The fact that it can easily be revenge killed by most scarfers is pretty irrelevant, if your scarfer gets in you've either just lost a mon or risked it vs one of zam's coverage moves, and there's absolutely nothing stopping zam from switching out and just coming back later, all round poor argument. Also would like to point out that Scarf Victini and Jirachi which think they can just come in and pivot take 70% from shadow ball while other scarfers like Hydregion can str8 up die to Focus blast.
    You really wanna play those kind of games with the only pokemon on your team which is faster than zam? Don't think so!

    I'll admit Zam does need a bit of support as it's kinda hard to get into battle, but all that takes is something like U-Turn Gligar or Volt-Switch Forre and you're pretty much set, really not giving up much for something as devistating as zam.

    tl;dr - ban pls
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2015
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  16. Just Do It

    Just Do It No one cares

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    Just Do It
    Mega Alakazam has been proven to be a dominating force in UU. With 175 Special Attack and the ability to run Modest, (Timid for M Beedrill/Sceptile/Aerodactyl) it can break through pretty much everything especially with the help of Calm Mind/Encore. It has near perfect coverage in Psychic/Fighting/Ghost, has access to Psyshock allowing it to break through special walls. All of this combined with its 150 speed allowing it to outspeed everything in the tier bar Scarf mons, Mega Alakazam is too much for the tier.

    So therefore, Alakazite will be banned from the ORAS UU tier.
     
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