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[Real Talk] Palestinian-Israeli Conflict

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Fiery Espeon, Mar 27, 2015.

  1. Fiery Espeon

    Fiery Espeon The fire never bothered me anyway ~

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    Discuss the continuing aggression of Israel and Palestine on each other. Both sides have been against each other for decades and each side has their own faults. Some countries recognized both Palestine and Israel, while others don't. The United States is a major ally of Israel, and because of it's position on the UN Security Council, can veto anything that might harm their ally in the Middle East. However, the Obama administration and the Netanyahu administration are becoming less and less connected on issues ever since Netanyahu's speech to Congress was only weeks before his reelection as PM. How will this effect the Palestinian-Israeli Conflict? Be sure to refer to conflicts such as the Six Day War, Yom Kippur War, etc if needed.
    Topics of Discussion:
    - Problems with the Palestinian-Israeli conflict
    - Solutions to the these problems
    - "Who's" fault is it that the Palestinians and Israelis are fighting each other?
    - Who do you support, and why
    - If you support neither, give your reasoning
    - Which side does your country support?
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2015
  2. Nicehat

    Nicehat PO client damage calc: preview.tinyurl.com/o8e7hss

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    If you have a solution to the conflict you shouldn't be posting it on here, you should go call up Obama and let him know so he can do something about it
     
    Jalmont likes this.
  3. MidwayMarshall

    MidwayMarshall woof Forum Moderator Developer Forum Moderator Developer

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    Who's fault?
    The cause is the fault of Britain and some allied leaders playing God with the Middle East as well as the selfishness of Jewish immigrants and the Arab refusal to be more diplomatic to other nations (that weren't Muslim) . Look at the job Britain did with India. How many Countries popped outta that thing.
    [​IMG] Regions not directly connection to the mainland cannot receive direct physical aid from their respective governments. This is the dumbest border in the entire world.

    WWI:
    1917 The propagandist Balfour Declaration to gain support from German and American Jews to aid in the war effort. Both Christians and Muslims of Palestine protested the Declaration.

    1919 The Faisal-Weizmann Agreement between Faisal, the son of the King of Hejaz, and Chaim Weizmann, who later became the President of the World Zionist Organiation. Both Faisal and Weizmann disliked Palestinian Arabs and ignored their wishes. Weizmann describe Palestinian Arabs as "greedy", "treacherous" and "uneducated" he also made a comment that Faisal was "contemptuous of the Palestinian Arabs who he doesn't even regard as Arabs".

    1920 The Treaty of Sevres (Peace between Allies and the Ottoman Empire) split the Ottoman Empire and led to the destabilization of the Eastern Middle East and the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. Eventually without the Ottoman Empire many wars were fought by those who wished to form their own country out of the ruin. (Some suggested to liberate the Kurdish and give them a country to their own, the Kurdish have lived in Kurland for thousands of years like the Israelites lived in the Jerusalem region but they only cared to gain support from Zionists/Jews since no significant population of Kurds are in the western world the Allies gained nothing from it)

    1923 The British Mandate for Palestine which gave Britain Administrative control of Palestine from the Ottoman Empire.

    The Zionist leaders told the allies that if they helped establish a national home for the Jews in Palestine, they would ask Jewish people around the world to support the Allied cause. So by now the British Government had made a lot of war-time promises.

    Now the phrase "national home" was used because it did not necessarily mean a free state. There were arguments about whether the Jews would get a free state or become some sort of protectorate. But the main thing condition for either is that Jews from around the world immigrant to Palestine until there were more Jews than Christians and Muslims. The Zionist Movement even went as far as to quote the Bible as justification.
    When all these blessings and curses I have set before you come on you and you take them to heart wherever the Lord your God disperses you among the nations,
    2 and when you and your children return to the Lord your God and obey him with all your heart and with all your soul according to everything I command you today,
    3 then the Lord your God will restore your fortunes and have compassion on you and gather you again from all the nations where he scattered you.
    4 Even if you have been banished to the most distant land under the heavens, from there the Lord your God will gather you and bring you back.
    5 He will bring you to the land that belonged to your ancestors, and you will take possession of it. He will make you more prosperous and numerous than your ancestors.
    30: Deuteronomy.

    12. And He shall raise a banner to the nations, and He shall gather the lost of Israel, and the scattered ones of Judah He shall gather from the four corners of the earth.
    11: Isaiah

    14. And I will be found by you, says the Lord, and I will return your captivity and gather you from all the nations and from all the places where I have driven you, says the Lord, and I will return you to the place whence I exiled you.
    29: Jeremiah

    41. With a pleasing savor I shall accept you when I take you out of the nations, and I shall gather you from the lands in which you were scattered, and I shall be hallowed through you before the eyes of the nations.
    42. And you will know that I am the Lord when I bring you to the land of Israel, to the land that I lifted My hand to give to your forefathers.
    20: Ezekiel
    And indeed what happened was a flood of Immigrants into Palestine. Eventually the Jews outnumbered the Arabs.

    1921 Jaffa Riots. The Jewish Communist Party tried to parade in Jaffa. There was an issue between Police and the Communist protestors and local Christians and Muslims intervened to aid the police against the Jews. Call it a miscommunication but the noise from the fighting led some Arabs in Jaffa to believe that Arabs were being attacks, which led to the real violence of the day . The riot resulted in the deaths of 47 Jews and 48 Arabs. 146 Jews and 73 Arabs were wounded.

    1929 Western Wall Uprising. A dispute between Muslims and Jews over access to the Western Wall (Contains numerous very holy sites, and some religions were barred from visiting them even to this day) turned violent. 113 Jews were killed, 339 Injured. 110 Arabs were killed and 232 injured. The Shaw Commission concluded that the violence was caused by Arab animosity towards Jews and their fear for their economic future and Jewish immigrants becoming their overlords.

    1935 Izz ad-Din al-Qassam was killed in a firefight with British police. The Palestinian Muslim preacher died as a martyr to his fellow Palestinian Muslims.

    The 1936-39 Arab revolt in Palestine was marked by the general strike. Arabs estimated loses at 5,000 killed and 15,000 wounded with 12,622 ending up detained over the revolt. Military Law by the British allowed Arabs to be held without trail and without proper sanitation in prison camps.

    1936 Palestinian general strike. A 6 month strike by Arabs. The British responded by imposing heavy fines on villages and cities (Worked great in keeping the Thirteen colonies in order amiright?) The British ordered the destruction of more than a thousand homes in the city and neighboring villages under the guise of "Urban renewal". And then The British allowed the Zionist Movement to build a port in Tel Aviv.

    1937 The Peel Commission. A British Royal Commission of Inquiry into the causes of unrest in the British Mandate of Palestine. Many Arabs cited the fact the UK promised an independent Arab state (Lawrence of Arabia anyone?). The Inquiry concluded that Arabs desired national independence and that their were angry with the establishment of the Jewish National Home and afraid of Jewish domination.
    The Commission recommended partitioning Mandatory Palestinian to accommodate the Jews and Arabs. This would create a Jewish State and an Arab State. It also reported that the Partition would world better if an exchange of population took place between the new Jewish and Arab states of Palestine like the 1923 Greek and Turkish population exchange. Most Arab leaders rejected the idea of the partition. The Jewish community was divided on it.

    1937 Tiberias massacre

    (The acceptance would nullify the Balfour Declaration)
    1939 The White Paper of 1939 officially abandoned the British governments idea for partitioning Palestine. Not only that but it proposed an alternative to create an independent Palestine to be governed by Palestinian Arabs and Jews in proportion to their numbers. Main points of the paper: 1. Within 10 years the establishment of an independent Palestine jointly governed by Arabs and Jews. 2. Jewish immigration to Palestine would be limited to 75,000 for the next 5 years. 3. Regulation and prohibition of the sale of Arab land by Jews.
    The UK parliament and the League of Nations held little support for the White Paper. The Jews of Palestine showed little support too.

    The Arab Higher Committee argued that the independence outlined in the Paper was illusory because the Jews could prevent its functioning by simply not participating. They also thought that only a 5 year limit on immigration gave no promises for further restrictions. They also still wanted a Arab-state not a mixed Jewish-Arab state. (An Israeli historian notes that one of the Muslim leaders of Mandatory Palestine turned down the White Paper because "it did not place him at the helm of the future Palestinian State." Even so there were celebratory Arabs demonstrations in suit that the British were proposing to allow Palestine independence on the same terms as Iraq. There were reactionary bombing attacks against Arabs resulting in 38 deaths and 44 injured.

    Zionist groups in Palestine rejected the White Paper and started a campaign of attacks on government property and Arab civilians. A Jewish general strike was called in may of 1939.
    A suspension of all Jewish immigration into Palestine was placed into effect until March 1940 due to rise in illegal immigration.
    Zionist militant group Irgun starts to plan a rebellion to overthrow the British rule and create a Jewish state. The exiled founder of Irgun planned to assemble 40,000 armed Jewish fighters recruit in Europe to sail to Palestine. The Polish Government supported the militancy and provided training and arms for Jews to go fight in the planned Jewish rebellion in Palestine. But the outbreak of ww2 prevented this.

    1939 World War Zwei

    1940 Jamal al-Husseini and Musa al-Alami, delegates to the London conference. agreed to the terms of the White Paper and both signed a copy of it in the presence of the Prime Minister of Iraq.

    1942 December. The World finally believes in the systematic extermination of Jews. The British government begins giving out Mandatory Palestinian immigrant certificates as fast as they can.

    1945 End of ww2 The British Labour Party conference voted to rescind the White Paper and establish a Jewish state.
    British attempts to stop migration which led to violent resistance by underground Zionist groups.

    1946 At the behest of the USA. The British Government allowed 1,500 Jewish migrants a month into Palestine. The over immigration eventually led to food rationing
    (Damn Truman, Nuked Japan and flooded Palestine with Jews and then quickly recognizes Israel as a state)

    1947 - The UN Partition Plan of Mandatory Palestine
    [​IMG]
    1947-48 Civil War of Mandatory Palestine broken out after the UN adopted a resolution recommending their Partition Plan.

    If you remember the Faisal-Weizmann agreement from earlier about how racist and biased Weizmann was against Arabs (Think Nazi is to Jew as Weizmann is to Palestinian Arab). Weizmann served as President of the World Zionist Organization 1921-1931 then again 1935-1946.
    1948 May 14th - The World Zionist Organization formally declared the establishment of the state of Israel. The Declaration came into effect at the termination of the British Mandate of 1923 on May 15th 1948. The acting President was okay with a small part of Palestine. Hoping that it would grow larger (peacefully) overtime.

    The first action of the new Government was to revoke the Palestine White Paper of 1939, which restricted Jewish immigration and land purchase of Arab Land by Jews. The State of Israel also took 60% of the area allocated for the proposed Arab State in the UN Partition Plan.

    1948 The Civil War "ends" and the 1948 Arab-Israeli War starts when Egypt, Iraq, Syria and Transjordan invade the area that was Mandatory Palestine on May 15th. Transjordan took the West Bank. Egypt took the Gaza Strip.
    1949 Armistice Agreement signed by Belligerents except the Palestine Arabs and the Iraqis. 700,000 Palestinian Arabs were displaced. From 1949 to 1952 about 700,000 Jews immigrate to Israel, one third of them from other Middle Eastern Countries.

    Not gonna talk about Yom Kippur or Six-Day War because you asked.

    Israel likes to act like it is being defensive but throughout history from the Balfour declaration to now. The Zionists have shown they are willing to go through any violent lengths to achieve domination of the Palestinian region. Even against the British Empire even to go against UN resolutions.

    Netanyahu is a selfish and vain man. He like so many politicians care more about being re-elected then solving problems.
     
    Aurist and Fiery Espeon like this.
  4. Fiery Espeon

    Fiery Espeon The fire never bothered me anyway ~

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    There are many solutions, but neither side will accept the same solution.
    Fun Fact: Palestinian officials offered a peace treaty with Israel that included everything Israel wanted yet Israel made no comment and did not accept the treaty in the 70's-80s.