1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Guest, PO has ceased our separate tiering and adopted Smogon tiers for SM. More information and updates here.

    Dismiss Notice

Mario

Discussion in 'Active Themes' started by Pangaea, Apr 3, 2015.

  1. Pangaea

    Pangaea resto en peaco

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2014
    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    46
    Mario
    Raw:
    Roles and Sides:​
    Mushroom Kingdom (village)
    Mario
    - Star of the theme; Can daykill during the day without being revealed, and can be converted into different forms of himself by Rosalina. Has a /fire command which can be haxed by Yoshi (but ultimately it's just a dummy action).
    Peach - Princess of the Mushroom Kingdom; Vote counts as 20 because she's a princess.
    Luigi - Mario's sideki --- I mean brother; Can stalk someone during the night, and will die if he's distracted by a Boo (since he's a scaredy cat).
    Rosalina - Mother of the lumas; In small games, she can only inspect. In larger games, she can inspect AND turn Mario into one of his five different froms at night (Steel Mario, Ice Mario, Flying Mario, Raccoon Mario, Gold Mario). Her converts, however, have a chance of turning Mario into Baby Mario on accident.
    Yoshi - Mario's good ol' dinosaur friend; Can shield someone during the night (if someone tries to kill Yoshi's target, Yoshi will take the hit). Can hax Mario's /fire command.
    Daisy - Princess of the Sarasasasalalalans (???) Kingdom; Can distract someone during the night.
    Toadsworth - An old and wise Toad; Inspects as Goomba, and can kill someone if he is voted off.
    Birdo - Yoshi's girlfriend (I think); Can poison someone during the night.
    Toad - Resident of the Mushroom Kingdom; Can only vote during the day, receives hax on kills and distracts.

    Bowser's Kingdom (maf1)
    Bowser
    - Ruler of his kingdom, and possibly a molester; Can kill one person during the night (shared), and has a one time day kill which won't reveal him. He avoids hax and ignores distraction.
    Bowser Jr. - Bowser's son; He can protect someone at night as well as kill someone at night (shared). He inspects as Toad due to a spell that was put on him by Kamek.
    Goomba - A well-known enemy in the Mario franchise; Can kill during the night.
    Kamek - A wizard who is out to get Mario and Yoshi; Can kill during the night (shared). Can cast a spell on any of Mario's forms to turn them back into normal Mario prematurely.

    King Boo's Army (maf2)
    Boo
    - A ghost who likes to play pranks on people; Can kill during the night (shared), as well as distract someone during the night. He dies if he's stalked by Luigi since Luigi will suck any Boos up with his Poltergust.
    King Boo - Leader of the Boos; Can kill during the night (shared). He can also inspect someone during the day (won't be revealed). His vote counts as -20 in order to counter Peach.
    Dry Bones - Can kill during the night (shared). Survives a lynch. After being lynched, he will be able to ignore distractions.

    Deadly Duo (maf3)
    Wario
    - Mario's evil cousin; Can kill one person during the night (shared). He avoids nightkills and inspects as Toad.
    Waluigi - Luigi's evil cousin; Can kill one person during the night (shared). Every other night, he can kill an additional person (not shared). He identifies anyone who distracts him at night.

    Fawful (maf4)
    Fawful
    - A recurring enemy in the Bowser's Inside Story game; Can kill someone during the night. He can also self-protect himself at night, and he ignores distractors.

    Mario's Forms (sided with Mushroom Kingdom but I'm just putting them here separately)
    Steel Mario
    - Can kill someone during the day without being revealed, can't be night killed.
    Raccoon Mario - Can kill someone during the day without being revealed. Can protect AND safeguard someone at night (only one command for this).
    Ice Mario - Can kill someone during the day without being revealed. Can distract TWO people during the night.
    Flying Mario - Can kill someone during the day without being revealed. Can inspect AND watch someone at night (only one command for this).
    Gold Mario - Can kill someone during the day without being revealed. Has an additional daykill which has a 70% chance of revealing Mario.
    Baby Mario - Each of Rosalina's commands for converting Mario have a chance of turning Mario into Baby Mario; Can kill during the day but will always fail. Has a 50% chance of avoiding Yoshi's shield, and vote counts as 0.
    No forms are permanent. All forms convert back into Mario after two nights.

    Priority:
    [0] Toadsworth (Kill)
    [1] Boo (Scare)
    [1] Ice Mario (Distract)
    [2] Daisy (Distract)
    [4] Fawful (Protect)
    [5] Raccoon Mario (Fullbg)
    [10] Yoshi (Shield)
    [11] Bowser Jr. (Protect)
    [15] Fawful (Kill)
    [17] Waluigi (Kill2)
    [20] Bowser (Kill)
    [21] King Boo (Kill)
    [23] Waluigi (Kill)
    [23] Wario (Kill)
    [25] Bowser Jr. (Kill)
    [27] Kamek (Kill)
    [28] Boo (Kill)
    [29] Dry Bones (Kill)
    [30] Goomba (Kill)
    [35] Rosalina (Inspect)
    [40] Birdo (Poison)
    [45] Any of Rosalina's spells
    [46] Kamek (Spell/Turns Mario's forms back into Mario)
    [50] Luigi (Stalk)
    [50] Flying Mario (Inspect)
    [99] Mario (Fire/Dummy Command which is haxed by Yoshi)

    Spawn:
    List 1 (4~4 players):
    1. Mario (mario)
    2. Boo (boo)
    3. Toad (villager)
    4. Toad (villager)

    List 2 (5~7 players):
    1. Baby Mario (babymario)
    2. Baby Mario (babymario)
    3. Baby Mario (babymario)
    4. Rosalina (srosalina)
    5. Shy Guy (shy)
    6. Baby Mario (babymario)
    7. Baby Mario (babymario)

    List 3 (8~20 players):
    1. Mario (mario)
    2. Toad (villager)
    3. Rosalina (rosalina)
    4. Yoshi (yoshi)
    5. Toad (villager)
    6. Toadsworth (toadsworth)
    7. Goomba (goomba)
    8. Bowser (bowser)
    9. Toad (villager)
    10. Goomba (goomba)
    11. Toad (villager)
    12. Princess Peach (peach)
    13. King Boo (kingboo)
    14. Kamek (kamek)
    15. Dry Bones (drybones)
    16. Boo (boo)
    17. Daisy (daisy)
    18. Toad (villager)
    19. Toad (villager)
    20. Luigi (luigi)

    List 4 (21~25 players):
    1. Mario (mario)
    2. Toad (villager)
    3. Rosalina (rosalina)
    4. Yoshi (yoshi)
    5. Toad (villager)
    6. Toadsworth (toadsworth)
    7. Goomba (goomba)
    8. Goomba (goomba)
    9. Kamek (kamek)
    10. Daisy (daisy)
    11. Toad (villager)
    12. Toad (villager)
    13. Bowser (bowser)
    14. Goomba (goomba)
    15. Luigi (luigi)
    16. Princess Peach (peach)
    17. King Boo (kingboo)
    18. Boo (boo)
    19. Boo (boo)
    20. Toad (villager)
    21. Bowser Jr. (bowserjr)
    22. Birdo (birdo)
    23. Toad (villager)
    24. Fawful (fawful)
    25. Toad (villager)

    List 5 (26~46 players):
    1. Mario (mario)
    2. Toad (villager)
    3. Rosalina (rosalina)
    4. Yoshi (yoshi)
    5. Toad (villager)
    6. Toadsworth (toadsworth)
    7. Goomba (goomba)
    8. Goomba (goomba)
    9. Kamek (kamek)
    10. Daisy (daisy)
    11. Toad (villager)
    12. Toad (villager)
    13. Bowser (bowser)
    14. Goomba (goomba)
    15. Luigi (luigi)
    16. Princess Peach (peach)
    17. King Boo (kingboo)
    18. Dry Bones (drybones)
    19. Boo (boo)
    20. Toad (villager)
    21. Fawful (fawful)
    22. Wario (wario)
    23. Waluigi (waluigi)
    24. Boo (boo)
    25. Toad (villager)
    26. Goomba (goomba)
    27. Boo (boo)
    28. Toad (villager)
    29. Toad (villager)
    30. Toad (villager)
    31. Goomba (goomba)
    32. Boo (boo)
    33. Boo (boo)
    34. Goomba (goomba)
    35. Toad (villager)
    36. Toad (villager)
    37. Goomba (goomba)
    38. Toad (villager)
    39. Toad (villager)
    40. Toad (villager)
    41. Toad (villager)
    42. Boo (boo)
    43. Goomba (goomba)
    44. Toad (villager)
    45. Boo (boo)
    46. Toad (villager)


    Wahoo! Yep, I still don't think Mafia can be Mafia without some sort of Mario theme. Mario is such a well-known character, and he is pretty much the mascot of Nintendo. Almost everyone knows who he is and what his games are about. Yeah, there have been many attempts at getting a Mario theme on the server, and they've all failed. I'm going to hope the same doesn't happen to this theme. This is also the first theme I've coded on my own (of course, I had some help), but overall I probably did 95% of the coding, so please bare with me if there are any mistakes in the code. :x

    Anyhow, the main flavor for this theme is, of course, Mario! I tried to be as simple and straightforward with the roles as I possibly could have been. You will notice that I mainly only used main characters from the franchise, which is why you'll notice there aren't any Chain Chomps, Geno, or Starlow (???). I also tried to be really creative with the help messages and very flavorful with stuff like the lynch messages and death messages. Help messages are also written in first person point of view, because I kinda like it better that way.

    The main concept/goal of the theme is fairly simple. Mario is the hero and star of the theme; however, he cannot claim safely. If Mario claims, he is putting Yoshi's life at risk (since Yoshi takes the hit for whomever he protects), and Bowser can daykill without being revealed, so it isn't really worth it. Rosalina can inspect during the night, and if she can manage to find Mario, she can turn him into one of his five forms at night. Mario has a dummy command which can be haxed by Yoshi at night. This is so Mario can gain some protection at night without having to claim. Peach can control the voting phase but as to be wary of King Boo, who can counter Peach during the voting Phase. Luigi and Boo ultimately counter each other with their stalks and distracts.

    Main Concerns/Worries:
    - Lack of roles. Yeah, I only have nine unique village roles. That isn't horrible, but the only roles I can repeat are Toad, Boo, and Goomba, and I'm worried about that, especially for large games. There are so many characters in the Mario series, but most of them are just irrelevant. I didn't put Donkey Kong in because he doesn't really feel relevant to the franchise, but...if I need roles, I might add him in as a lone role. Other possibilities for new roles could include Toadette and Koopa Troopa, and maybe even Luma. I think if I end up adding anything in, it would be Luma (expose daykillers? y/n?)
    - Spawn List. I am very worried about the spawn list. Please remember this is the first theme I've ever coded, and I created the entire spawn list on my own, so it might not be perfect. I'm worried about possible unbalanced games, especially in games with lots of players. Also worried about too much Toad repetition in large games.
    - Fawful. Kinda worried about him being underpowered. I may end up having him inspect as Toad, or maybe even giving him a voteshield. He appears rather UP to me atm.


    I hope I don't get too much hate for not adding Donkey Kong in :c. Also, when I was coming up with the roles for this theme, I got a lot of judgment and opinions from RiceKirby, so if you happen to have a complaint or suggestion about flavor or something else, I will probably either use his judgment or mine.

    (Also special thanks to RiceKirby, Miki Sayaka, and obey to kyubey for helping me with a lot of mistakes I had in the code).
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2015
  2. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2011
    Messages:
    2,176
    Likes Received:
    635
    PO Trainer Name:
    RiceKirby
    >Putting the link to the code in a spoiler
    >Putting the full code in the thread
    Way to be impractical, huh?

    My opinion would be quite biased since I gave you lots of ideas for that, but the one thing I noted is that you didn't use the idea of having Kamek's /spell having a small chance of empowering Mario. It could be a cool internal conflict to have, although not really necessary.

    You said you are worried about not having many roles, but I say that's a good thing. You should focus on a strong core for now, and since you don't have many roles, you have a lot of space to expand the theme in the future. Kirby originally had a lot less roles (it could have less now), which allowed me to use lots of new ideas that came later.

    For spawn lists, I didn't look too much to see what's fine or not, but you should definitely take a better look at List 3. You spawn a lot of Villager roles, then a bunch of Bowser roles in a row, and only at the end you add the Ghosts, which could end with one of them appearing alone at games with exactly 18 players. Try to mix them more so balance won't suddenly tip to one side for 2~3 slots.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2015
  3. Pangaea

    Pangaea resto en peaco

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2014
    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    46
    Probably :x just wanted it there for the lazy people, but I guess I can remove it.

    I didn't do it because I noticed that it is way easier for Rosalina to find Mario than it is for Kamek. I'd rather not have a "oh look, I finally found mario, but now I'm just making him stronger" situation for Kamek. Just doesn't seem fair.

    I think having less roles made larger spawns much more difficult for me to create, which is what I'm worried about.

    Ok, will do.
     
  4. Pandaofazn

    Pandaofazn Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2014
    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    3
    PO Trainer Name:
    Pandaofazn
    Correct me I'm wrong, but wasn't a mafia theme already created by Sky Sentinel? Or did something happen when I was gone?
     
  5. Fate Testarossa

    Fate Testarossa Unbreakable Bond

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Messages:
    527
    Likes Received:
    563
    PO Trainer Name:
    Fate Testarossa
    Stuff happened, it was declined. The thread is still there if you want to see it.
     
  6. Pandaofazn

    Pandaofazn Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2014
    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    3
    PO Trainer Name:
    Pandaofazn
    Just did a few sim's on Rice's simulator. With the exception of 15 + 17 players, where there is only one lone King Boo, which also contradicts your stated spawn lists.
    Apart from that, nothing else to note with spawn list.
     
  7. Pangaea

    Pangaea resto en peaco

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2014
    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    46
    Yeah the spawn list in the OP is outdated :x And I already addressed the spawn with you on the server.
     
  8. Pandaofazn

    Pandaofazn Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2014
    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    3
    PO Trainer Name:
    Pandaofazn
    Seems good now (Y)
     
  9. Roild

    Roild Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2012
    Messages:
    861
    Likes Received:
    11
    PO Trainer Name:
    Roild
    The border scares me.
     
  10. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2011
    Messages:
    2,173
    Likes Received:
    557
    PO Trainer Name:
    Joeypals
    I'll give you something more later (as in a different time), but do you think there's something different you can do for 3-4 players? At 3 players it's basically down to 6 options: Boo hits Toad, Boo hits Mario, Boo doesn't kill and Mario hits Toad, Boo doesn't kill and Mario hits Boo, neither kills and there's a vote, or neither a kill or vote is made and the cycle is repeated. It's not that it's a bad set-up (see Oracle, essentially down to who is granted and killed at 3p), it's just far too luck-reliant for my liking and there's not a strategy for it. With 4p you basically have the above situations, except a daykill and nightkill will almost always be made and if Mario dies, you basically have a rand situation for the vote (see 3p Zelda).

    Saying as this needs to be mentioned due to the proximity of the two review threads (and I gotta touch on it when I review the theme anyway), I will say now that I definitely like the flavor of this Mario theme more.
     
  11. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2011
    Messages:
    2,176
    Likes Received:
    635
    PO Trainer Name:
    RiceKirby
    Not many themes actually have a decent 3p setup, especially those that are not specifically non-peak. I don't think it's a problem if 3p is too luck based, since that's not the focus of the theme, but mostly a "here, have something to play when Mafia is dead".
     
  12. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2011
    Messages:
    2,173
    Likes Received:
    557
    PO Trainer Name:
    Joeypals
    Right, I know that! I was merely inquiring if he had other ideas that were possibly less-luck based and more strategy-based. I don't have a problem with the 3p set-up cause, like you said, it's there for when Mafia is dead, I was just wondering if he had another idea for it.
     
  13. Pangaea

    Pangaea resto en peaco

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2014
    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    46
    The minplayers for this theme is 4. I don't think we should worry about 3p :x

    You'll notice the spawn for this theme is heavily based off of the spawn for Zelda, especially smaller games. In fact, 4p Mario is pretty much 4p Zelda. You're right, 4p is essentially a guessing game for the village, however I don't see a better alternative to it.
     
  14. Fiery Espeon

    Fiery Espeon The fire never bothered me anyway ~

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2013
    Messages:
    540
    Likes Received:
    129
    PO Trainer Name:
    Fiery Espeon
    The only problem that still affects the theme is balance/spawn. Multiple smaller sides at a time seems more balanced than a 1 side v 1 side situation. The Mario franchise has a lot of characters that can be used, and you can use this to advantage. If you decide to not to add any roles, the spawn can be changed a little to make it less village- sided. A full review will come shortly.
     
  15. Whereabouts Unknown

    Whereabouts Unknown Absolutely Stunning Forum Moderator Channel Leader Forum Moderator Channel Leader

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2010
    Messages:
    966
    Likes Received:
    522
    PO Trainer Name:
    Miki Sayaka
    In smaller games, that really depends. Some of the worst spawns in games are like 5-6 player versions of some really fun themes. Talking about FF and Zelda, mainly. The problem is that by adding new sides at small numbers the number of kills is increased really fast, making lynching either impossible or almost irrelevant. 5p Zelda village cannot win if both mafia get kills. Same for 6p FF. Heck, in 5p Garland can just claim so that Kefka gets a clean kill and forces the village to pick a winner. 6p Zelda is even worse because if either mafia x-fires (or in Vaati's case, fails to land a kill), they have sub 1% chance of winning.

    Personally I much prefer small games that rely on deception on a small scale, rather than involving lots of killing roles. Small game Trigs in Math is a good example. I don't know the Mario spawn by heart, but I don't think adding a new side too early is necessary. The whole Mario/Boo thing works alright, although you might want to spice it up with something else like King Boo / Peach. (KB won't be a problem if there are 2 PRs which can take him out). The small game vanilla dynamic isn't inherently problematic but you could probably improve it. Mainly, I wouldn't worry about adding a second mafia faction until games are reasonably large unless you have a well-thought out way to make it work.

    Edit: Do Ice Mario and Boo actually have the same priority on their PL commands? If so, you should give one priority over the other :x
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2015
  16. Pangaea

    Pangaea resto en peaco

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2014
    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    46
    Could I get examples as to which spawn lists show village sided games?

    Mario has a bunch of characters, true, but pretty much 80% of them are irrelevant/nobody knows of. Sky's theme had a bunch of characters from the franchise that the majority of players didn't even know existed (i.e Starlow, MC Ballyhoo). I also don't think adding more roles just for the sake of having more roles is the right thing to do.

    One thing that is kinda bothering though is how spawn is "still a problem" even though nobody has even mentioned anything up until now. If it's something that has been affecting the theme for a while then I should be notified ASAP and do something, then that way spawn won't "still" be a problem.

    I want to do something with Peach and KB but the thing is I would need to have include a few PRs who could take KB down after Peach is defeated. That's the main reason they only start appearing at 13 players (if I can remember right).

    I could use some suggestions for spawn. I'm not gonna add any more roles though, and I do need examples of which spawn lists show village sided games.

    And yeah I'll fix Ice Mario and Boo priority (IceM will probably be the faster one)
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2015
    Joeypals!! likes this.
  17. Fiery Espeon

    Fiery Espeon The fire never bothered me anyway ~

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2013
    Messages:
    540
    Likes Received:
    129
    PO Trainer Name:
    Fiery Espeon
    im dumb (if you updated the spawn, please update the op :x). The same problem that you fixed in List 3, is present in List 4, so you may need to fix that. You can spawn another mafia side earlier, instead.
    There are still some Mario characters that are well known that are still not used in the theme.
    Donkey Kong is a main protagonist, but is not included. Shy Guy is also a character that can be used. But, if you feel that you do not want them in your theme, your opinion will be respected.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2015
  18. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2011
    Messages:
    2,176
    Likes Received:
    635
    PO Trainer Name:
    RiceKirby
    Your list3 spawns 2 Peachs. Was that intended?

    And both your lists 3 and 4 still have that problem where a new team is introduced but can end as a lonely player at specific game sizes (examples: 13p would be 9 village vs 3 Bowser vs 1 Boo; At 25p Wario would spawn but Waluigi wouldn't). Simplest way to solve that is to cut-off the list at that point, add 1~2 villagers and create a new list that starts from there but with those villagers replaced by 2~3 mafia. Example:
    List 4:
    22. Birdo
    23. Toad
    24. Fawful
    25. Toad <-last role from List 4; this is where you have Wario spawning

    List 5:
    22. Birdo
    23. Toad
    24. Fawful
    25. Wario
    26. Waluigi <-List 5 would always begin from here, so Wario and Waluigi would always spawn together
    27. Toad

    Lastly, I personally dislike when millers know they are millers (unless there are some other factor added, like a +100 voteshield) since most of the time they will simply claim and not get inspected, which beats the point of being a miller.
     
  19. Pangaea

    Pangaea resto en peaco

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2014
    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    46
    Whoops, should be fixed now.

    Hopefully I fixed it. I'm kinda confused about your 13p example though because it's KB that spawns, not Boo. Should I still fix him being alone though?

    Wario and Waluigi should spawn together now.

    I could make him see himself as Toad, I suppose, but I'll see what other people think.
     
  20. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2011
    Messages:
    2,176
    Likes Received:
    635
    PO Trainer Name:
    RiceKirby
    I meant that as "Boo's team".
     
  21. Whereabouts Unknown

    Whereabouts Unknown Absolutely Stunning Forum Moderator Channel Leader Forum Moderator Channel Leader

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2010
    Messages:
    966
    Likes Received:
    522
    PO Trainer Name:
    Miki Sayaka
    Unless you intend to make Toadsworth a PR, make him think he's Toad. Otherwise he can just claim, get voted, connect village, kill a villager/mafia.
     
  22. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2011
    Messages:
    2,176
    Likes Received:
    635
    PO Trainer Name:
    RiceKirby
    I noticed another setup that can cause problems. 9~12p has only one mafia faction, yet village gets a Distractor role without any restriction. This basically screams "PL stall mafia forever".
     
  23. Pangaea

    Pangaea resto en peaco

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2014
    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    46
    Yeah sorry about being slow on the updates. I've been having a lot events throughout the past few weeks and I'm also attempting to run a forum game so my schedule has been a bit cluttered lately, and I really haven't had much time to log onto the server for very long.

    I'm still looking at the suggestions and I will be adjusting things accordingly. I'll be fixing a little bit more of the spawn list and changing up Toadsworth so he just sees himself as a Toad now.

    @Fiery Espeon
    I didn't use Donkey Kong because he does not appear in many games as a main character where he is portrayed as a protagonist. On many occasions he is shown to be a rival or opponent towards Mario, and he even has a game where he stars as the main antagonist (that Minion March game). None of these attributes really come off as friendly to me and he doesn't really have that big of an impact on the game (storyline wise), so I just left him out.

    If I do include him he'll probably be an enemy because I don't see him as being on the village any time soon. Shy Guy is also something I could work with but I would need to think of something (assuming I decide to include him, which isn't really a priority for me right now).
     
    Joeypals!! likes this.
  24. Whereabouts Unknown

    Whereabouts Unknown Absolutely Stunning Forum Moderator Channel Leader Forum Moderator Channel Leader

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2010
    Messages:
    966
    Likes Received:
    522
    PO Trainer Name:
    Miki Sayaka
    Hi @Pangaea, just wanted to let you know that this theme has been disabled for a while due the aforementioned spawn issues. I know you're not able to be very active atm, but please let me and the other QC on this theme know when you are active again so we can properly review your theme. Thanks!
     
  25. Whereabouts Unknown

    Whereabouts Unknown Absolutely Stunning Forum Moderator Channel Leader Forum Moderator Channel Leader

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2010
    Messages:
    966
    Likes Received:
    522
    PO Trainer Name:
    Miki Sayaka
    Notify me when you're back to active enough to maintain this theme for review. Until then, locking.

    Edit: unlocked.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2015
  26. Pangaea

    Pangaea resto en peaco

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2014
    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    46
    Finally updated this, as you all know I suck at spawn so if there is still something wrong with that just tell me and I'll fix it ASAP.
     
  27. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2011
    Messages:
    2,176
    Likes Received:
    635
    PO Trainer Name:
    RiceKirby
    You don't need to completely remove Daisy from list 3. You could just put her somewhere after the 2nd mafia team spawns (around 16~19p).
    Also regarding list 3, you could try splitting it into 2 lists so when Boo Mafia spawns they will have at least 2 members (14p has 4 Bowser Mafia and only 1 Boo Mafia). Not top priority, but would be neat if done.
     
  28. Pangaea

    Pangaea resto en peaco

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2014
    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    46
    Daisy added back, and I'll see how Boo's Army holds out first before I make any changes.

    EDIT: I also (finally) updated the spawn list in the OP.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2015
  29. Fate Testarossa

    Fate Testarossa Unbreakable Bond

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Messages:
    527
    Likes Received:
    563
    PO Trainer Name:
    Fate Testarossa
    Re-enabled this theme as the spawn has been adjusted.
     
  30. Pangaea

    Pangaea resto en peaco

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2014
    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    46
    A couple things I've taken note of:

    - Bowser's Army is a bit UP in smaller games of 8 and 9 players. Thinking just having another Goomba replace the Toad that appears in 9p games so at 9p it'd be 6v3 (probably what I'll end up doing), OR I could completely replace that team and do something with Boo's Army, maybe even have the Peach + KB conflict appear earlier, I could also mess around with Wario and Waluigi if I wanted (they'd probably be too powerful as a duo though in such a small sized game).
    - As of now Kamek's demote is pretty much never used. He has no way of finding Mario, and most of the time Rosalina won't even be giving him power-ups. A few ways I could change this - make Kamek's /spell have another effect not exclusive to Mario (maybe I'll make him into a TAC for village), OR I could completely redo the core I had in mind so Mario is revealed when he kills, Yoshi's shield turns into a protect, and maybe push Rosalina back in the spawn. To keep this from becoming Zelda I could put some limitations on Yoshi's /protect (maybe similar to Parasols where it's every other day and make different colored Yoshi roles or something), or just increase the chance of Rosalina's converts turning Mario into a baby. I'm skeptical about the 'redo core' idea because I don't want this turning into Kirby (same thing goes for the 'make Kamek like TAC' idea).

    Feedback on what I should do is appreciated.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2015
  31. Fate Testarossa

    Fate Testarossa Unbreakable Bond

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Messages:
    527
    Likes Received:
    563
    PO Trainer Name:
    Fate Testarossa
    The main problem with the mafia in smaller games is they have no additional powers (I honestly consider Kamek to be just another Goomba); as it is, 8 and 9 player games are 6v2 and 7v2, with the mafia roles simply being basic mafia (almost like the old FF in games of 9 to 11 where village almost always won). Something as simple as a bit of information to help mafia find power roles could work, or protection against Rosalina. Maybe swapping out a Goomba for Bowser Jr. (basic mafia as well but inspects as Toad) or even Bowser (1 time non-revealing daykill) could do the trick. Not sure if 6-7p games are too village favored, but if they are, swapping out a Boo for King Boo would work (since king can inspect); of course for a game this small I'd suggest removing the -20 vote. One last thing for 8 to 9p could be to swap out Kamek for a mafia role from another faction; Wario might work as he evades nightkills to reduce x-fire, but that also leaves the lone Goomba reliant on village to eliminate Wario. Just spouting a few ideas that came to mind.
     
  32. Pangaea

    Pangaea resto en peaco

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2014
    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    46
    Okay, I did a really weird thing for non-peak, probably unbalanced but I was feeling cheeky. I just didn't want non peak to be boring Zelda non-peak so I did something completely experimental. If it sucks I'll scrap the idea but I'll see how it works.
     
  33. Pangaea

    Pangaea resto en peaco

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2014
    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    46
    Double post because Miki said I could :x

    I'm going to be adjusting this theme a bit, mainly with the play-style and gameplay of the theme. Miki and I talked on the server yesterday, and she thought it'd be best if I turned this into a 'Follow the Samurai' theme. This would require a number of changes which I will list below. Of course, it'll have to compete with Zelda, which may be difficult because a) Zelda is immensely popular and a classic and b) It is the first to use the 'Follow the Samurai' gameplay and is easy to learn. Although, if you take a better look at it, you can see it's really unbalanced, and in some situations, games can be decide night 1.

    That's what Mario is going to be now - a theme that thrives to deliver the 'Follow the Samurai' concept in a more balanced way, while at the same time keeping the fun aspect. ALL PR roles will be useful for certain situations (unlike Zelda where it's based mainly around Link and Impa), and it will try to prevent the 'Find the BG' goal that is present for every mafia in Zelda.

    Obviously I'm not going to try to replace Zelda or anything, in fact Zelda will probably stay superior due to the fact that it's a classic, but we'll see.

    Anyway, here's a list of stuff that is being changed:

    - Mario's daykill now reveals him.
    - Yoshi's /shield is changed to a /protect.
    - Rosalina's spells also now safeguard her target for the Kamek change.
    - Kamek's /spell now reverts Mario into a Mario that can't daykill. This Mario will only convert back after Kamek dies.
    - Bowser now has full-time use of his daykill, but he is revealed.
    - Rosalina no longer inspects.
    - Spawn is being changed, with certain mafia moving back and certain mafia moving up.

    Now, the new code is nearly complete, I just need to start working on the new spawn. I do have some things that I need help deciding, though:
    -A new inspector. Since Rosalina's role as a converter/safeguarder is more important than ever, I find it unfair that she gets to steal the show with an inspect, too. However, I honestly have no clue which Mario character could take over the role as an inspector.
    -Mario's flying form. His additional ability in this form allows him to both stalk and watch someone with one command. I want to change this because Luigi already acts as the stalker in this theme. I thought about making it an inspect instead, but I feel that a samurai with an inspect + another inspector may be too powerful for the village.
    -Implementing new roles. I added placeholders for Luma, Shy Guy, and Donkey Kong in the code, just in case I decide to use any of them one day. I feel like I should include Donkey Kong somewhere, since the Mario franchise is where he originally came from. I might make a 'Monkey Mafia' for some kind of non peak setup, which could consist of Donkey Kong and Diddy Kong. Shy Guy could act as a miller for Boo, and I don't know what Luma could do to be honest.
    -Spawn list. This is going to be harder than ever for me, since I now have to try and find a spawn that does two things: a) Prevents games from being decided on night one (especially in smaller games) and b) Preventing the game from becoming 'Find the BG' for mafia. I'm worried about this especially and will definitely need some advice/tips once I conjure something up.

    Other than these changes, this is still pretty much the same theme. I hope I'm heading in the right direction with this change. Opinions/thoughts on these changes are appreciated.
     
  34. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2011
    Messages:
    2,176
    Likes Received:
    635
    PO Trainer Name:
    RiceKirby
    I don't like this whole "Trying to be a more balanced Follow the Cop theme" because it totally smells like people will want to modify Zelda later, which is completely unnecessary except for small games spawn.

    Regardless of that being true or not, let me point some things about the changes made:

    Does that mean Rosalina need to keep converting Mario to safeguard him? Is there any other change to her spell ability?

    Since you said you want to add Luma, why not here? I have no idea if it's even possible to fit it flavour-wise since I barely even played the Galaxy games, but since you are already going for it may as well try.

    Try some ability related to the voting phase. Extra votes may be too obvious, so why not some kind of voteshield, or even a 0.5x vote multiplier?

    Absolutely not. Adding Donkey is already bad enough, but Diddy doesn't even appear on any Mario Kart/Party/Golf/Tennis/whatever games.

    Any theme with a role that can lead village and a bodyguard is likely going to turn into a Find the BG game. Add a Named Villager and a BG to Vanilla and even that theme will start revolving around the Named Villager claiming and leading the rands.
    The only way to prevent it is to make it unviable for any role to claim safely, which contradicts the idea of having Mario as a leading role. Instead of worrying about whether the game will turn into a Hunt the BG or not, you could just focus on making that process fun (like how Kirby has a lot of Hunt the BG, but it's more interesting than other themes because 1) Marx, 2) TAC and 3) Parasols' recharge).
     
  35. Whereabouts Unknown

    Whereabouts Unknown Absolutely Stunning Forum Moderator Channel Leader Forum Moderator Channel Leader

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2010
    Messages:
    966
    Likes Received:
    522
    PO Trainer Name:
    Miki Sayaka
    Are you saying it's unnecessary to modify Zelda, or unnecessary to modify Mario?

    I did bring up the idea of making Mario reveal to Pangaea. If it's an opportunity to avoid altering a classic theme, and it could work out to make Mario a better theme as it is, I don't see how it hurts to try it out. Since Pan is going with it, I'd like to see how it turns out before deciding if it Zelda needs to be discussed at all.

    I think the idea would be to multiply the amount of things mafia have to remove to get rid of the central PR. Rosalina Safeguard being the counter to Kamek's demote which makes Mario unable to kill is part of that. You would just need information games to make it so each side knows which "bg" they are hunting, and making it so the village doesn't auto-lose if Mario dies.

    I guess that's what you're saying. The idea is that it's better than hunt the BG because it isn't over if the bodyguard dies necessarily. This is a problem with a lot of other themes based around a single main PR - backup PRs just can't do anything meaningful. I'm interested to see how it turns out.
     
  36. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2011
    Messages:
    2,176
    Likes Received:
    635
    PO Trainer Name:
    RiceKirby
    It's unnecessary to modify Zelda. Mafia needs to keep the few themes that still offer a very straight-forward gameplay. Zelda has always been consistently on Top 3 for a reason.
     
  37. Pangaea

    Pangaea resto en peaco

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2014
    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    46
    I agree that Zelda doesn't need to be modified. Many people have tried to and it hasn't worked out. So I agree with leaving it alone, but I still think Mario should be modified.

    As of now the theme is 'Find the BG' and 'Find the SG' for mafia. However I do see RiceKirby's point and I will try to incorporate something that makes it more fun or exciting for the mafia. Since there are multiple Yoshis I might do something similar to Parasols, but I really don't want to steal anything from Kirby. I'll see what I can do though.

    As for Luma being an inspector, I honestly have not played Galaxy either so I'm not really sure how that would work flavor wise. I'll make her the inspector for now, I might do something with her as well that makes somewhat interesting as well.

    Flying Mario with the voteMultiplier sounds good.

    EDIT: Actually, I'm thinking about creating some type of Locke/Zidane for the Luma role, or even something similar to L in DNR who exposes the role of the person they last inspected when killed. Thoughts?
     
  38. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2011
    Messages:
    2,173
    Likes Received:
    557
    PO Trainer Name:
    Joeypals
    I just want to point out that Oracle did this first, not DNR :x. Anyway, as far as flavor goes for Luma being an inspector, it doesn't make much sense. The most that the Lumas do (I played SMG and SMG2 completely) is help you do spin attacks and can sometimes transform into launch stars. That being said, there is a specific Luma that would fit fantastically with the flavor: Polari.

    As such, Polari seems more than perfect to be Rosalina's replacement as the inspector.

    Changes are looking really good so far, looking forward to playing this when more solidified.
     
  39. Pangaea

    Pangaea resto en peaco

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2014
    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    46
    I haven't been paying too much attention to fixing the spawn mainly because of the TCC but I'll get it done.
     
  40. Pangaea

    Pangaea resto en peaco

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2014
    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    46
    Ok! So after over six months of me being too lazy to log onto PO and actually play Mafia, I came back and remembered that this theme was a thing.

    I still intend to make changes on work on this theme. Hopefully I stay active throughout this month.

    Anyway, I know Mafia was, like, dead for a while, and I'm not really sure what state it's in now, but I guess I may as well work on this theme when I have extra time over the month.

    Tbh I don't remember what I have to fix about this theme. I remember Miki wanted it to be more Follow the Cop-ish, and then the spawn had to fixed. I also did some wack thing with the spawn with a Shy Guy role because I was feeling bored, idek.

    EDIT: Also...first post in the Review section since, like, July