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[Final] Jynx

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Analyses' started by Disaster Area, Apr 23, 2015.

  1. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Badged Deucer

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    Introduction

    Jynx is notorious for being one of the best leads in the game. Its base speed lets it be the second-fastest user of a Sleep move in the game, with its base 95 speed and Lovely Kiss. Its base 95 Special is also fantastic - enough to take neutral hits from Pokemon such as Chansey and Starmie if it needs to, and on the offense, provide it with enough power that once it's used its Sleep Move it's not dead weight. Its STABs are resisted by few, and none of those that resist both of its STABs other than opposing Jynx are immune to Freezing! As a consequence it can be risky to switch into, since every possible switch-in can be hit hard and possibly removed early on in the match.

    Sets

    Standard

    Jynx (F)
    - Lovely Kiss
    - Blizzard
    - Psychic
    - Rest

    Set Details

    Jynx makes a fantastic lead, and this set makes the best of all its traits. Lovely Kiss is a nessecity, as is Psychic. Blizzard represents its other STAB and is the main one to be thrown out, particularly due to its potent freeze chance even scaring Chansey and others. The PP very rarely runs out on it, although with its capacity to freeze, threaten, and critical hit, it can be done. Note that if every Blizzard is used on a target which can be frozen, there's a 53% chance of achieving a freeze (a little under the accuracy of Sing) - clearly nothing consistent, but a legitimate threat. Rest is by far and away the best 'filler' move. A Resting Jynx can block Exeggutor, and force your opponent into their threatening Pokemon (such as Snorlax and Tauros), moving the game forward early game - as a consequence, CounterLax, Slowbro, Starmie, and a couple of others make particularly useful partners, since should you mess up and waste a Sleep turn only to find your opponent brings in a huge threat, it's not game over, or requisite that you even sacrifice Jynx - however, avoiding this scenario by making intelligent plays is a better option, and all a part of the risk-reward that is playing Pokemon. Since Chansey's Thunderbolt only does around 20% without a critical hit, and resisted Psychics from behemoths such as Exeggutor and Starmie do less, in certain scenarios it's capable of waking up.

    It's important to comment, that occasionally Jynx can be used outside of the lead spot; this involves having a particular strategy in the lead scenario to gain from this - Alakazam and Starmie can pair as leads, letting you gain a switch advantage in certain scenarios, but often just plain leading Jynx may well be better. Gengar can explode on the first turn and open up a hole for Jynx, but bear in mind Gengar's Explosion doesn't consistently OHKO Jynx, and it's not often wise to stack such frail Pokemon together.

    Other Options

    In terms of other options, apart from running Ice Beam over Blizzard, its options mainly concern its fourth move. Counter is an option to prevent Lapras and Snorlax causing havoc so easily, but it's generally pretty mediocre and prediction-reliant. Seismic Toss is a legitimately good option but again suffers hugely from the opportunity cost of not running Rest. It can force opposing Jynx and Slowbro in particular to Rest cycle, and outdamages any other option versus them and also versus Starmie. Mimic and Body Slam are fairly inferior options but the small Paralysis spreading ability of Body Slam and the potentially high rewards of Mimicing something like Softboiled can be alluring, but their inconsistency and minimal utility marr them from having a serious place on Jynx's well-constructed moveset.

    Checks and Counters

    Ice types in particular mark themselves out for their Freeze immunity, but Jynx can do little in mirrors, Articuno doesn't resist Ice or Psychic, Cloyster's Special makes Psychic really hurt, and Dewgong is straight outclassed, so Lapras is your best choice of a Freeze-immune Jynx switch-in - furthermore, with its great bulk and overall stats, it can begin being threatening there and then, since all of its attacks hurt Jynx quite heavily. Leads-wise, only Gengar can outspeed and Sleep it, whilst the other common leads (Starmie, Alakazam, and Jolteon) can Paralyze it etc. Chansey and Water types (such as Slowbro and Starmie) are the next-best answers - although depending on the moveset, Rest Jynx may be able to outstall them, they take very little from its attacks, but must beware Freezes. Physically aggressive Pokemon and also Moltres can pressure it but may not nessecarily enjoy switching in. Hyper Beam Exeggutor is a good lure, especially as it can KO a Paralyzed one if it takes a Seismic Toss from a lead Alakazam, and a Psychic as the Jynx switches into Exeggutor.

    Related Content

    http://www.pokemonperfect.com/forums/showthread.php?3266-Zam-Stoss-Vs-Jynx-Avg-Dmg
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2015
  2. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    That's an interesting approach. Looks like you're writing both copies of the analysis though, so it won't count as plagiarism.

    That's a wee site you're posting from. Looks like they specialise in older gens only?
     
  3. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Badged Deucer

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    i pretty much used this approach for tauros's article too I just had already written a lot of it when sulcata spoke to me about it.

    Furthermore I was still banned on PO at the time so I had the time to more or less finish it before I could leave it here.

    dun worry bout this it's not ur job to worry bout it *-* when it's done I'll bump and highlight the person who tends to comment exceptionally on these things [magic9mushroom] + link to a few other experienced members to see if they have anything they want to add.
     
  4. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Badged Deucer

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    bump, more or less finished writing.

    Tagging @magic9mushroom because they usually have something great to add that I've missed :)
     
  5. Ortheore

    Ortheore One beautiful monster

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    Cool stuff, I personally would slash Counter with Rest, but maybe that's just me lol

    I think overall, the C&C section could use a lot of trimming down.

    Ice types- Lapras is really the only one that can be called a Jynx check. Also it prefers Jynx para'd.
    When talking about leads that beat it, I'd probably just mention Gengar as beating it, while making a general point that other popular leads paralyse it.
    Snorlax is good, but it really doesn't enjoy taking Jynx's attack in general, not just freezes imo
    Actually, talking about disliking freezes is really redundant, nothing likes freezes.
    Chansey deserves a mention imo- it gets outstalled by Rest (barring hax obv), but otherwise it's a good check, and forcing Jynx to Rest isn't bad either.
    Likewise if you're running SToss Zam outside the lead spot, then that's a good check
    I'd remove fire type mentions. Moltres isn't that good, and being Ice-weak makes it not really a check to Jynx. Meanwhile Ninetales is just awful and shouldn't really be run.
    Imo condense points about Kingler, Tauros et al. to just saying there are many powerful attackers (particularly physical) that can overwhelm it, but can't switch in. Maybe Moltres can be considered part of this point as well.
     
  6. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Badged Deucer

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    Yeh I could condense that.

    Whenever i ran counter I sorely missed rest, whenever i ran rest .. most of the time i was fine without counter.

    e: updated checks/counters
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2015
  7. sulcata

    sulcata stéphane curry best waifu Forum Moderator Server Administrator Forum Moderator Server Administrator

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    I would move all the numbers and matchup details in the introduction to set comments and C&C as necessary. The introduction/overview is meant primarily as flavor text for people to understand what kind of Pokemon Jynx is, a fast and frail sleeper lead for the most part.

    Also, nested parentheses >:O
     
    Disaster Area likes this.
  8. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Badged Deucer

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    I can't help but write in such detail xD

    I'll try and reshuffle stuff I guess yo
     
  9. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom Active Member

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    Jynx as a non-lead in my experience is confined to tournaments where it's either bo1 or you're allowed to change teams between games and you've been tipped off that your opponent is going to lead Gengar. You lead ReflectZam and switch to Jynx turn 1 as they switch to Egg. It's a shitty tactic for shitty people. Like me. :V Don't know any other reason you'd do it; the whole point of Jynx over Starmie is that Jynx learns LK and Starm doesn't (thank god).

    I was solidly anti-Rest on Jynx when I played RBY because waking up Rest Jynx means you have to switch into Tauros at least once and more probably twice, and there is absolutely no way around that. But I haven't played since the meta changed and though I don't believe Tauros would have lost any usage, I can't be sure. Or maybe since Snorlax is now shit at breaking unparalysed Chansey people risk their Tauroi more and so you can get it out of the way. What I do know is that Rest on Jynx doesn't achieve anything unless you have a safe switch into Tauros (show me this mythical creature) or your opponent doesn't have a fresh Tauros.

    Mimic on Jynx is intended specifically to screw over BlizzBoltWave and I guess PsyBoltWave Starmie (I don't really know why the latter is a thing, but it's allegedly common at the moment) after Jynx has slept something that isn't Starmie and Starmie tries to tank it. If Jynx gets Thunderbolt, Thunder Wave, or Recover, Starmie is in the shit (Tbolt doesn't 2HKO, but Jynx's crit rate isn't half bad and neutral non-STAB Tbolt takes a very long time to kill Jynx). If Starmie doesn't have Thunderbolt or Thunder Wave, it's a lot less useful, and to some degree that also applies if Starmie is running Water STAB (back when I started this was over a third of Starmie, but I believe it's a lot less now).

    Counter on Jynx in my experience is more a theoretical possibility than anything else. In practice it doesn't work because everybody knows Jynx might have Counter (because let's face it, all its fourth-moves suck), Tauros has paraslam-fullparas and crits and Earthquake, and Snorlax firstly is slower (so it's safer to Blizz) and secondly has a 50% OHKO rate with Hyper Beam (secret shroomy technique: I almost always used Hyper Beam with Snorlax vs. unrevealed-fourth-move full-health Jynx). And if it's chipped at all it's worthless because fainted Pokemon counter no moves (resisted Starmie Blizzard means a guarantee on Snorlax's HBeam and 99-116% when added to Tauros' HBeam). It's more just "it could theoretically have Counter, so I'll do this slightly-inferior thing instead" rather than "successful Jynx Counters are a thing that happen". I guess you could try it for real in the Jynx vs. Lapras matchup, since Lapras never has Water STAB?

    Dunno if that's the exceptional commentary you wanted, Piexplode, but I don't really know much about Jynx besides the obvious "its typing is awesome, its stats are terrible, it has 3 great moves and nothing else notable". That's sort of the whole picture IMNSHO.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2015
  10. Ortheore

    Ortheore One beautiful monster

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    Hmm, some fair points there. Maybe Rest as the 4th option is being overrated- I noticed in OO there's a comment running something that isn't Rest being a "high opportunity cost" which is a bit extreme. While I agree that Rest is one of Jynx's better options, it's definitely a high-risk option and overall is something you shouldn't feel uncomfortable dropping if you decide those kind of mindgames aren't for you.

    Idk maybe Counter Jynx is just something I'm biased towards, it's something I've had a reasonable amount of success with in the past. Lax HBeaming fresh Jynx isn't a common play in my experience, and it's not often I see people scout for counter Jynx either- usually if they go to Lax I'm expecting a Body Slam. Meanwhile Rest isn't something I'd be comfortable running without a very defensive team in place, and other stuff isn't as commonly useful in my experience, especially since Jynx doesn't have a lot of longevity.

    As for Mimic, it's just a move I generally dislike due to its unreliability and the opportunity cost of using it in battle, given that you could be using Jynx's STABs. It's still better than Body Slam though, a 50% chance of changing the Chansey matchup and 75% chance vs most Star is definitely better than Body Slam's unreliability and impotence vs normals. Seismic Toss isn't useful vs Jynx unless you can't put it to sleep for some reason, which would be a weird situation. That leaves Bro, which isn't seen early game all that much, and Starmie. Still probably Jynx's most consistent 4th slot option though
     
  11. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Badged Deucer

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    Having used Jynx every day in the past month or three I can safely say that Rest on Jynx is actually a good option and puts all the others to shame. Whilst it's rare to keep it alive enough to wake up during a match (you can versus some defensive teams though!) it can be very easily used to force switches, as well as help block sleep from Exeggutor. Whilst it's not something 100% consistent etc. (prediction-based probability rather than RNG) it's waaaaay better than its other options, even if for nothing else you can keep it alive longer to fodder later on, rather than losing out on it after 5 turns.

    Well, you not coming out with anything exceptional to add means I've probably done a good job; I have a lot of experience playing Jynx so one hopes that I'd not miss anything too important. Thanks! :)
     
  12. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom Active Member

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    If you don't get to wake it up, then you would have gotten an extra Blizzard by not Resting.
     
  13. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Badged Deucer

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    it's more useful to fodder is later in the match, and you use it as a sponge for exeggutor's attacks. Furthermore it means you always have something with which to relieve specdrops. Once in a while I also manage to wake it up and it take sleep on the wake-up turn, thus holding off sleep clause for me later in the game.

    Either way, its ability to force Snorlax/Tauros in (yes in!) is invaluable.