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[ORAS] ORAS LC Viability Rankings

Discussion in 'Past Gens Discussion' started by Funbot28, Jul 16, 2015.

  1. Funbot28

    Funbot28 Active Member

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    Listed in alphabetical order:

    S-Rank:
    Reserved for the very best Pokemon in the LC metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this tier have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.

    S

    [​IMG]
    Mienfoo
    [​IMG]
    Pawniard
    S-

    [​IMG]
    Abra
    [​IMG]
    Chinchou
    [​IMG]
    Timburr
    A-Rank:
    Reserved for Pokemon that are outstanding in the LC metagame and can sweep, wall, or support the majority of the tier. These Pokemon require less support than other Pokemon to be used effectively and have few flaws that can be overlooked when compared to their outstanding traits.

    A+

    [​IMG]
    Archen
    [​IMG]
    Drifloon
    [​IMG]
    Fletchling
    [​IMG]
    Gastly
    [​IMG]
    Magnemite
    [​IMG]
    Porygon
    A

    [​IMG]
    Drilbur
    [​IMG]
    Ferroseed
    [​IMG]
    Gothita
    [​IMG]
    Ponyta
    [​IMG]
    Snubbull
    [​IMG]
    Spritzee
    [​IMG]
    Staryu
    [​IMG]
    Vulpix
    A-


    [​IMG]
    Bunnelby

    [​IMG]
    Carvanha

    [​IMG]
    Cottonee

    [​IMG]
    Croagunk

    [​IMG]
    Foongus

    [​IMG]
    Houndour

    [​IMG]
    Larvesta

    [​IMG]
    Omanyte

    [​IMG]
    Pumpkaboo-XL

    [​IMG]
    Shellder

    [​IMG]
    Skrelp

    [​IMG]
    Snivy

    [​IMG]
    Tirtouga

    [​IMG]
    Vullaby
     
    B-Rank:
    Reserved for Pokemon who are great in the LC metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than of those above it that affects how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential. Their niches are often slightly smaller than those that are in A and S rank, which leads them to face some competition for a teamslot.

    B+


    [​IMG]
    Bellsprout

    [​IMG]
    Corphish

    [​IMG]
    Dwebble

    [​IMG]
    Hippopotas

    [​IMG]
    Munchlax

    [​IMG]
    Pancham

    [​IMG]
    Zigzagoon
     
    B


    [​IMG]
    Cranidos

    [​IMG]
    Doduo

    [​IMG]
    Onix

    [​IMG]
    Riolu

    [​IMG]
    Scraggy

    [​IMG]
    Slowpoke

    [​IMG]
    Stunky

    [​IMG]
    Surskit

    [​IMG]
    Taillow

    [​IMG]
    Torchic

    [​IMG]
    Trubbish
     
    B-


    [​IMG]
    Aipom

    [​IMG]
    Amaura

    [​IMG]
    Chespin

    [​IMG]
    Elekid

    [​IMG]
    Lickitung

    [​IMG]
    Magby

    [​IMG]
    Pumpkaboo-Small

    [​IMG]
    Shellos

    [​IMG]
    Tentacool
     
    C-Rank:
    Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the LC metagame, but have just as notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective in LC. C rank Pokemon tend to find themselves outclassed by Pokemon in the above tiers, and face a lot of competition for a team slot.

    C+


    [​IMG]
    Aron

    [​IMG]
    Axew

    [​IMG]
    Binacle

    [​IMG]
    Buneary

    [​IMG]
    Clamperl

    [​IMG]
    Darumaka

    [​IMG]
    Koffing

    [​IMG]
    Lileep

    [​IMG]
    Mantyke

    [​IMG]
    Numel

    [​IMG]
    Rufflet

    [​IMG]
    Spinarak

    [​IMG]
    Teddiursa

    [​IMG]
    Tyrunt

    [​IMG]
    Wynaut
    C


    [​IMG]
    Bulbasaur

    [​IMG]
    Dratini

    [​IMG]
    Frillish

    [​IMG]
    Goldeen

    [​IMG]
    Honedge

    [​IMG]
    Kabuto

    [​IMG]
    Krabby

    [​IMG]
    Larvitar

    [​IMG]
    Meowth

    [​IMG]
    Poliwag

    [​IMG]
    Purrloin

    [​IMG]
    Remoraid

    [​IMG]
    Sandile

    [​IMG]
    Sandshrew

    [​IMG]
    Snover

    [​IMG]
    Zorua
    C-


    [​IMG]
    Anorith

    [​IMG]
    Cacnea

    [​IMG]
    Cubone

    [​IMG]
    Ekans

    [​IMG]
    Finneon

    [​IMG]
    Froakie

    [​IMG]
    Glameow

    [​IMG]
    Grimer

    [​IMG]
    Growlithe

    [​IMG]
    Horsea

    [​IMG]
    Inkay

    [​IMG]
    Joltik

    [​IMG]
    Karrablast

    [​IMG]
    Litleo

    [​IMG]
    Mankey

    [​IMG]
    Natu

    [​IMG]
    Oddish

    [​IMG]
    Shelmet

    [​IMG]
    Totodile

    [​IMG]
    Venipede

    [​IMG]
    Wailmer

    [​IMG]
    Wingull

    [​IMG]
    Wooper
     
    D-Rank:
    Reserved for Pokemon that are generally bad in the LC metagame, but are decent enough to justify their occasional use on some teams. These Pokemon are either usable but have no real niche, or are only capable of doing their specific task and fail at doing anything more than that. Their niche is often so tiny, that they are not worth using the majority of the time.

    D+

    [​IMG]
    Barboach​
    [​IMG]
    Bronzor​
    [​IMG]
    Buizel​
    [​IMG]
    Deerling​
    [​IMG]
    Eevee​
    [​IMG]
    Mime Jr.​
    [​IMG]
    Minccino​
    [​IMG]
    Pineco​
    [​IMG]
    Rattata​
    [​IMG]
    Sewaddle​
    [​IMG]
    Smoochum​
    [​IMG]
    Tepig​
    [​IMG]
    Yamask​
      
    D

    [​IMG]
    Azurill​
    [​IMG]
    Bagon​
    [​IMG]
    Baltoy​
    [​IMG]
    Chikorita​
    [​IMG]
    Chimchar​
    [​IMG]
    Deino​
    [​IMG]
    Electrike​
    [​IMG]
    Fennekin​
    [​IMG]
    Geodude​
    [​IMG]
    Golett​
    [​IMG]
    Goomy​
    [​IMG]
    Helioptile​
    [​IMG]
    Litwick​
    [​IMG]
    Machop​
    [​IMG]
    Munna​
    [​IMG]
    Nidoran-M​
    [​IMG]
    Noibat​
    [​IMG]
    Nosepass​
    [​IMG]
    Phantump​
    [​IMG]
    Piplup​
    [​IMG]
    Seel​
    [​IMG]
    Shieldon​
    [​IMG]
    Shinx​
    [​IMG]
    Shroomish​
    [​IMG]
    Skiddo​
    [​IMG]
    Solosis​
    [​IMG]
    Squirtle​
    [​IMG]
    Starly​
    [​IMG]
    Trapinch​
    [​IMG]
    Treecko​
    [​IMG]
    Voltorb​
         
    D-

    [​IMG]
    Bidoof​
    [​IMG]
    Cyndaquil​
    [​IMG]
    Elgyem​
    [​IMG]
    Exeggcute​
    [​IMG]
    Gible​
    [​IMG]
    Hoppip​
    [​IMG]
    Lotad​
    [​IMG]
    Mareep​
    [​IMG]
    Panpour​
    [​IMG]
    Paras​
    [​IMG]
    Petilil​
    [​IMG]
    Phanpy​
    [​IMG]
    Rhyhorn​
    [​IMG]
    Shuppit​
    [​IMG]
    Skorupi​
    [​IMG]
    Slugma​
    [​IMG]
    Snorunt​
    [​IMG]
    Spearow​
    [​IMG]
    Swablu​
    [​IMG]
    Swinub​
    [​IMG]
    Togepi​
    [​IMG]
    Vanillite​
    [​IMG]
    Woobat​
    [​IMG]
    Zubat​
    Discuss the ORAS LC metagame and how Pokemon should be ranked in it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 25, 2016
  2. Jethalal

    Jethalal (~o.o)~ So Spooky ~(o.o~)

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    My suggestion
    Rufflet D to B+
    Rufflet is one of the MONSTERS in this metagame. Its ability makes it hard to switch in anything. Stab Aerial Ace and return with U turn Superpower reks most if it. It can be used with LO , scarf or band according to the team. With a bit of team support it's good.

    Archen A+ to B
    Definitely not justifying the description of A rank.Once the eviolite is gone its waste and majority of pokes use knock off. Its ability makes it more difficult to use+ Its typing make it even worse.

    Sorry if i did something wrong its my first post in discussions thread
     
  3. E.T.

    E.T. SSSSSSSSSSSSS! Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader

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    I agree with Rufflet moving up for the reasons stated.

    Archen should stay in the A ranks though. Berry Juice is another viable hold item (probably better in most cases imo). Knock Off shouldn't really be a problem unless you carelessly switch into it since a lot of the things that can use Knock Off on Archen (Mienfoo, Pawniard, Timburr, Croagunk, Vullaby, Pancham, Scraggy, etc.) probably don't want to risk staying in and getting hit by a super effective move (Acrobatics/Earthquake/Rock Slide/Stone Edge). Archen also can setup SR or Defog for the team, and it is one of the best checks to Fletchling. Personally, I think it is fine at A+.

    Some other changes that I would make:
    Fletchling A+ -> S-
    STAB priority Acrobatics is a force to be reckoned with. This decimates anything that doesn't resist it after a SD. It has the ability to roast Steels with Overheat or simply U-Turn to something like Diglett on the switch in, which can really take care of most of its counters. It can choose not to hold an item so that it hits as hard as possible with Acrobatics from the start, or it can run Berry Juice to give it a little more longevity and possibly help it setup a SD (no item is usually better though).

    Chinchou A -> A+
    Chinchou is very versatile being able to run bulky Rest/Talk, cleric, choice scarf, or even Soak sets. It checks many threats in the meta such as Archen, Fletchling, Magnemite, Ponyta, Staryu, Carvana, Larvesta, Shellder, and more.

    Bunnelby B+ -> A-
    This thing hits very hard with STAB Return and Quick Attack. It can run Choice Scarf or LO/Silk Scarf sets pretty well. Pumpkaboo does a pretty good job of walling it, but I don't think that's enough to keep it out of the A ranks.

    Slowpoke B- -> B+
    Knock Off does hurt Slowpoke's viability, but it can still be hard to break if it's used to its full potential. Mienfoo, Timburr, Archen, Fletchling, Ponyta, Drilbur, Croagunk, Shellder, and Tirtouga are a few things that Slowpoke can check or at least force out. Regen helps keep Slowpoke healthy too.

    Trubbish C+ -> B-
    Trubbish is a very good at Spike stacking with the unique combination of Sticky Hold and Berry Juice with Recycle. It's usually free to lay down Spikes against the many Fighting types in the tier unless they have boosting moves.

    Clamperl C -> C+
    Clamperl can be pretty dangerous with Deep Sea Tooth and Shell Smash since there are only a few Pokemon that can avoid being OHKO'd (without Sturdy) after a boost. The problem is that it can be hard for it to find opportunities to setup, and priority is pretty common. I still think it's a little better than C though.

    Goldeen C- -> C
    Goldeen has a slight niche of being able to wall Chinchou and Magnemite (thanks to Lightning Rod), and it can also hit them back hard with Drill Run. It gets Knock Off too which is always nice.

    Totodile C- -> B-
    Sheer Force with LO gives this thing enough power to OHKO Foongus with Ice Punch at +1. However, it can still be revenged by most scarfers at +1, and its coverage causes it to have trouble with things like Chinchou Slowpoke, and Crogunk.
     
  4. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    Agree with most of this, however I have a few minor changes I'd like to suggest.

    Rufflet
    D to B: Hustle means this thing has one of the highest attack stats in the tier. Return, Aerial Ace and Superpower give it almost perfect neutral coverage, only resisted by Honedge (which sucks). Best used as a scarf mon, but can also sweep with Bulk Up and Tailwind. No way is it a D mon.

    Krabby
    Unranked to B-: Epic Attack, and access to Swords Dance and Agility make it a formidable sweeper. Can also run a Scarf set well.

    Gastly
    A to A+/S: While it may be slower and slightly weaker than Abra, it has better typing and 3 immunities so it has more opportunities to switch in.

    Honedge
    C to D: Swords Dance set is too slow; Autotomize set is too weak. Great Attack wasted with weak STABs, and Knock Off weak to boot. Far too niche

    Anorith
    C- to B: The fastest Stealth Rock setter in LC, also has Rapid Spin and great Attack. Beats most Defog users thanks to STAB Rock Blast

    Shellder
    A- to B: As a physical Shell Smasher, Tirtouga is usually better. Also hurt by major 4mss - if you give up Ice Shard, Fletchling can revenge kill you; give up Rock Blast every bulky Water type walls you; give up Razor Shell and you can't touch Steel types not named Ferroseed
     
  5. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    Going to disagree with you on Honedge. I personally run Honedge on my LC team, and it is never dead weight. The things it can deal with are pretty nice, from Spritzee and Lileep (counters) to Pawniard, Gastly, and Chinchou (checks). It also has a nice job in blocking off the likes of Fletchling without Overheat. Of course, like its evolutionary counterparts, it is weaker on the special side, but is an absolute tank on the physical side.
     
  6. OUAzumarill

    OUAzumarill Active Member

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    Teddiursa in C- is confusing. It's combination of abilities make it arguably the best status absorber in the tier, and you can give it an orb to make it either function as a nearly invincible wallbreaker or a great late-game sweeper.
     
  7. Funbot28

    Funbot28 Active Member

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    Been a while, but here are the changes:

    Code (text):
    1. Porygon: S- to A+
    2. Chinchou: A to A+
    3. Diglett: A to A+
    4. Gastly: A to A+
    5. Spritzee: A+ to A
    6. Gothita: A- to A
    7. Bunnelby: B+ to A-
    8. Slowpoke: B- to B
    9. Clamperl: C- to C+
    10. Teddiursa: C- to C+
    11. Rufflet: D to C+
     
  8. Funbot28

    Funbot28 Active Member

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    Ok so removed Diglett. Discuss new nominations now that it is banned (I know I have a few, but I want others inputs first).
     
  9. E.T.

    E.T. SSSSSSSSSSSSS! Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader

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    Okay, time to discuss viability again!

    Changes:

    Chinchou A+ to S-
    Fits onto teams easily and there aren’t a whole lot of reasons not to use it. With Diglett gone, it’s even better.
    Magby C+ to B-
    Great speed tier; can act as an effective Belly Drum sweeper or LO attacker.
    Trubbish C+ to B
    Great for hazard stacking; has Recycle plus Berry Juice; great at absorbing Knock Off thanks to Sticky Hold; decent speed.
    Mantyke C to C+
    Underrated special wall imo; can also be dangerous on rain teams.
    Goldeen C- to C
    Still think Goldeen should move up. Excellent answer to most Volt Switch users thanks to Lightning Rod; gets good moves like Knock Off and Drill Run too.
    Nosepass C- to D
    With the abundance of Stealth Rockers in the tier, I don’t feel like Nosepass is deserving of C-. Sure it gets Volt Switch and Thunder Wave, but it just doesn’t seem that good to me.
    Ekans D to C-
    Coil sweeper set is probably better than D.
    Mankey D to C-
    Sure it doesn’t get Knock Off, but with moves like Close Combat, Gunk Shot, and Earthquake along with Defiant, it is better than D.
    Psyduck D to Unlisted
    Why was this even added in the first place? Psy-yi-yi.
    Wailmer D to C-
    Can potentially be dangerous due to scarf Water Spout. Probably deserves better than D.
    Wingull D to C-
    Great speed tier; can be dangerous on rain teams thanks to Hurricane and Scald.

    Additions:

    Chimchar to C-
    Has a niche as a lead Stealth Rocker with a decent move pool.
    Horsea to C-
    Swift swim sweeper.
    Joltik to C-
    Has the luxury of STAB Bug Buzz to bypass substitute users, and it can also punish Chinchou with Giga Drain for trying to block Volt Switch. Unfortunately, it doesn’t get Sticky Web though.
    Glameow to C-
    Another fast Normal-type attacker; what sets it apart is access to Sucker Punch and Play Rough.
    Krabby to C
    Surprising double dance sweeper or scarf user with good move pool.
    Sandile to C
    I’m surprised I missed this. Can be a dangerous Moxie sweeper with Choice Scarf, but unfortunately, it doesn’t get Knock Off.

    There are several other Pokemon that I'd like to add to the lower levels, so we may need to split D up into D+/D/D- and add E at some point, but I'll post those later.
     
    Funbot28 likes this.
  10. Funbot28

    Funbot28 Active Member

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    Agree with all of these changes except with Chimchar, as it is a hazard setter that practically loses to all the other hazard setters in the tier. For its offensive standpoints, other Fire-types such as Ponyta and Houndour are much better at filling that role imo.
     
  11. E.T.

    E.T. SSSSSSSSSSSSS! Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader

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    Yea, I agree. After thinking about it a bit more, Chimchar is probably a better fit in D. It has access to handy moves like Taunt, Encore, Fake Out, Endeavor, Vacuum Wave, U-Turn, Will-O-Wisp, Swords Dance, and Nasty Plot which can make it harder to predict at times. However, it's too slow to try being a sweeper which limits it to the Stealth Rock role, and there are faster Pokemon like Onix, Drilbur, Archen, and Staryu that can cause a lot of problems for it as a result.

    I'm planning on working on the D rank next, and due to additions that I want to add and its current size, I plan to break it up into D+, D, and D-. I'll probably try to reformat the list into tables soon as well because that's a lot easier to read. Anyway, here's some more potential changes and additions:

    Bronzor D to D+
    Mime Jr. D to D+
    Minccino D to D+
    Paras D to D-
    Pineco D to D+
    Sewaddle D to D+
    Slugma D to D-
    Smoochum D to D+
    Togepi D to D-


    Barboach to D+
    Buizel to D+
    Deerling to D+
    Eevee to D+
    Rattata to D+
    Tepig to D+
    Yamask to D+
    Bagon to D
    Baltoy to D
    Chimchar to D
    Deino to D
    Electrike to D
    Litwick to D
    Nidoran-M to D
    Noibat to D
    Seel to D
    Shinx to D
    Squirtle to D
    Bidoof to D-
    Cyndaquil to D-
    Exeggcute to D-
    Elgyem to D-
    Gible to D-
    Hoppip to D-
    Lotad to D-
    Mareep to D-
    Panpour to D-
    Petilil to D-
    Phanpy to D-
    Rhyhorn to D-
    Shuppet to D-
    Skorupi to D-
    Snorunt to D-
    Spearow to D-
    Swablu to D-
    Swinub to D-
    Vanillite to D-
    Woobat to D-
    Zubat to D-


    EDIT: Yay, we have tables now! I went ahead and implemented the changes that were discussed for Pokemon above the D rank, but I'll give people a chance to give some input before messing with the D rank stuff. Although, if you want to discuss any changes for the higher ranks, feel free to do that too.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2016
    Funbot28 likes this.
  12. Jethalal

    Jethalal (~o.o)~ So Spooky ~(o.o~)

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    Tepig D+ -> D- : lack of recovery and u-turn gets outclassed by pony and darumaka
    Dieno D-> D+ : It has hustle and has niche as scarf but yes frail
    Phanpy D- -> D+: decent bulk access to knock off can be a good lead
     
  13. E.T.

    E.T. SSSSSSSSSSSSS! Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader

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    Tepig: I would agree that Ponyta and Darumaka are more reliable, and that is why they are ranked higher. Ponyta is much faster and has recovery, and Darumaka hits harder thanks to Hustle. However, Tepig outshines Ponyta in coverage options with powerful moves like Head Smash and Superpower. Tepig outshines Darumaka with access to Wild Charge and still being able to hit hard (though not as hard) without every move having Stone Edge accuracy. Tepig also has Sucker Punch which is something that neither Ponyta nor Darumaka have. Tepig does wear down rather quickly between move recoil and Life Orb recoil, but it also has Blaze, so the recoil isn't completely a negative. I think Tepig is fine at D+, but D wouldn't be unreasonable. However, I think it is better than D-.

    Deino: One of the main things holding Deino back from being ranked higher is coverage. Deino has nothing to hit Fairy-types, so it gets walled by the likes of Spritzee, Snubbull, and Cottonee for days, and they also sign Deino's death sentence as soon as it gets locked into Outrage. Deino is best used as a Choice Scarf user due to its low speed, but it doesn't have access to U-Turn, so it is extremely reliant on predicting correctly to be effective. Hustle is also a blessing and a curse because it allows it to hit hard at the cost of making every move have the accuracy of Stone Edge. I'm not convinced that it is good enough for D+, so I think D is fine.

    Phanpy: Phanpy's main drawback is that, unlike its evolution Donphan, it doesn't get Rapid Spin, and this fact makes it heavily outclassed by Drilbur and Sandshrew. The only real advantages that Phanpy has over them are Ice Shard, which is weak enough that it is typically only useful for finishing off greatly weakened things, and access to Gunk Shot for Grass-types which allows it to net a 2HKO over Chespin. I would be okay with Phanpy at D, but D+ seems too high just because of how outclassed it is as a utility Pokemon in most situations.

    EDIT: Implemented the proposed changes to D rank from the previous post.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2016
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