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Suspect Discussion: Pidgeotite (Banned)

Discussion in 'Gen 6 UU' started by NananaBatman, Oct 6, 2015.

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  1. NananaBatman

    NananaBatman Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    Credit goes to @ThatMushroom for this masterpiece.

    Discuss the ability of Pidgeotite being banned from the ORAS UU tier.

    Use this thread to discuss the impact of Pidgeotite on the metagame. Talk about different sets/roles it can use/fulfill, as well as potential checks/counters. State your opinion on wether it should be banned or not (having no firm stance on the matter is fine too).

    All opinions are valid and discussion among players is not only allowed but encouraged, provided your opinion has solid reasoning and displays having played with and/or against Mega-Pidgeot. 1 liners simply saying "it's broken" or "it's not broken" will be deleted.
     
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  2. JayThaMessiah

    JayThaMessiah New Member

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    Well, as a frequent user and also having faced off against this magnificent bird I'd have to say that mega Pidgeot is indeed a threatening Pokemon to say the least, not only just because of its speed and spatk, it has a very great ability in No Guard and a magnificent stab move in Hurricane ,which thanks to No Guard will never miss. Not many Pokemon want to take or switch in on that and it is a pretty well known and used Pokemon in the tier. However, with all the special defensive and even some AV (Assault Vest) Pokemon in the tier that can switch in and pretty much shrug off a stab hurricane without much of a worry is pretty wide. From all the battles Blissey, Florges, Goodra, Umbreon, Rotom-H, Amphoros (Mega and regular), and Cressela all can switch in quite safely and force a switch or mega Pidgeot will be at risk being KO'd. Examples are 252 SpA Mega Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Blissey: 118-141 (18 - 21.6%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery, 252 SpA Mega Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 111-132 (28.1 - 33.5%) -- 93.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery, 252 SpA Mega Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ampharos: 101-119 (26.3 - 30.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO.
     
  3. Edna

    Edna I'm like Cinderella with an umbrella Forum Moderator Forum Moderator

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    Mega Pidgeott is a huge threat due to its good speed, good movepool ( Hurricane, Heat Wave, U-Turn, Roost, Work up, Defog) and can be a potential problem for some teams. It has good offensive stats however there is a lot of mon it can't bypass, namely Mega Aggron, Spe def mega Ampharos, Rotom-H, Empoleon and Blissey.
    I wouldn't call Umbreon and Florges exactly counters since they can lose to confusion.

    However, since it has access to U-turn, it can easily U-turn out to pokemon such as Banded Heracross to eradicate its counters and then sweep again. I don't have a calc atm to show some damage however I believe it's still manageable and the only thing you have to fear is confusion ( 30% is a lot lol)

    I'm quite neutral to it being banned but I do believe it has some counters, major problem is that they're not that used presently
     
  4. Ice Tea

    Ice Tea :^#)

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    Thanks for that great analysis Carl Murray its not like we all know how to use Pidgeot.
    I think mega bird is p unhealthy for the meta so ban it like smogon
    Wouldnt say aggron is a counter at all lol it gets whittled down so fast and it has no access at recovery at all
    252 SpA Mega Pidgeot Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Mega Aggron: 133-157 (38.6 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    even max max which isnt common at all takes huge dmg and all it can do is heavy slam which wont even ohko or twave lo!l
    spdef ampharos is decent check at all but common core is bird+dug/mag where ampharos and empoleon both lose.
    rotom gets 2hkod after rocks and spdef rotom h is shit
    blissey loses to the stallbreaker work up refresh set which isnt rare at all also blissey is passive and shit so yh
    so yh basically ban bird its speed + hurrican is just way to much the abillity of uturning out into a trapper is just to much for this tier
    do it dark.
     
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  5. defensivetaoke

    defensivetaoke New Member

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    The bird,while has a combination of 110 STAB and 30% chance to confusion is really annoying,with base power 135(as a mega) is not ridiculous.It do have checks and counters.Counters are like scarfer,faster mons.I think I don't need to point out one by one since counter is more or less similar to different fast threats.Electric type like Raikou,Rotom-H can be switched in to take a hit and fire back.On Hurricane/Heat Wave/ U-Turn/Roost set there are some special walls can wall all the day(Empoleon,Blissey,Umbreon etc).I understand there is an Workup/Refresh/Hurricane/Roost set,which I have been using long time and really cool,can even pass Blissey.While it do have chance to destroy a whole team,the set also has its flaws.
    1.workup,as its only setup move,is boosting up neither defense nor speed but attack,which means you can hardly pass umbreon due to foul play
    If the bird even has Nasty Plot,I will vote for ban,no doubts.
    2.It's not bulky enough to setup,that means not difficult to kill it/force it out.
    And the bird is not forcing you to run a bad mon(like Own Tempo Slowking) as a check/counter.If one day these things are common I would agree it's completely broken.
    If you are not prepared you will get destroyed.That's true but that is an S/A+ rank mon should have done.
    No ban,pls

    showdown has't Raikou while we has,this really matters.
    Even when it was there on showdown it's not impossible to counter.But that's not our topic thus I will not talk about it detaily.
    I understand different sets have different checks but the bird is simply not overpower.
    When you are running a full stall team you should have prepared for the bird and gatr.

    Pernoally I'm running 96HP/160SPA/252SPE with a timid nature and 0 atk IVs.
    Other than overpower,it caused more luck based.This is where I agree.
    But we need considering how much affect it really make.
    The bird,although is really cool,doesn't fit every team.There are many teams where other megas are clearly more valuable.
    While scald is nearly everywhere,there are not many games that both sides are not using scald in UU.Teams which are not using scald,are mostly hyper offense.
    I have to adapt as scald is not being banned.Thus I would think the bird is the same.
    I'm not saying the game should rely on luck but that's the part.
    Give it time,we can adapt.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2015
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  6. Jethalal

    Jethalal (~o.o)~ So Spooky ~(o.o~)

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    No Doubt Mega Pidgeot is one hard hitting mon with no guard stab hurricane and heat wave coverage move but its easily handled by the some popular UU mons like Florges blissey Snorlax etc. It doesn't has notable bulk and also it can be easily revenged by a scarfer. Defensivetaoke pretty much described effictively so No Ban from me.
     
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  7. Celestial Phantom

    Celestial Phantom YAHA

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    Er, you do realize that Mega Pidgeot actually works around all 3 of those right? The Work Up + Refresh Roost set literally makes Blissey set up bait since generally it's only offensive move is Seismic Toss to deal damage. Florges if it has to come in (Moonblast only fringes a 2hko 44-52% if no Sp.Att invested), and well the same goes for lax depending on if it's Return vs Body Slam and if it's the AV set vs Curse set on how it handles things. Really don't like having to have an AV user just absorb hits that might lead it to hitting itself for large damage because confusion hits sucks.

    +1 0- Atk Umbreon Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Pidgeot: 117-138 (38.1 - 44.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    +1 252 SpA Mega Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 166-196 (42.1 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

    Eh, I call that still in Mega Pidgeot's favor because confusion chance right there. Just gotta 0 out that Att IV (if people forget to do that), and Foul Play isn't too scary. Mega Pidgeot really just needs Hurricane to confuse to get an up on Umbreon, especially since Umbreon's way of healing requires 2 turns to go by, where in Pidgeot can just Roost a turn and boom instant heal.

    83/80/80 bulk damn near average, so it won't really like the super powered stuff, but that's why you use clerics and support based Pokemon to set up, because they almost can't 2HKO it most times, you can probably transfer some Sp.Att EVs to HP bulk even to let it tank just slight better so you can set up more with Work Up.

    Now the thing about Mega Pidgeot I will relent really is that it does have it's checks/counters to it both Offensively and Defensively (but mostly Offensively). Most Scarf users can kill it if it's taken a hit or just taken Stealth Rock damage and not have had a chance to heal with Roost, as well there are very few faster options that do take care of bird that are common in UU, names like Aerodactyl, Crobat (but only offensive Bat i.e. Banded) and Mega Beedrill outspeed and can deal a very hefty hit to it that will put it at a strong KO range, if not KO'ing. The electric types mentioned of Rotom-H, Mega Amphy, Raikou take only a small amount of damage (like around 30-35%) maybe even less than that if they run Sp.Def sets, though Rotom-H with a lack of real recovery that doesn't hinge on the opponent, has to be wary if Rocks are around. Also several offensive Pokemon have their own set up moves to sweep it by outspeeding. (Mence has DD/Scarf sets, Gatr has DD/Agility, Sharpedo has Speed Boost, etc.)

    I don't think overall Pidgeot would be a very difficult Pokemon to deal with if it weren't for one thing: No Guard Hurricane and the chance of Confusion. Hurricane is a dangerous move, but because of bad accuracy you wouldn't commonly count it so much as an argument outside of the luck when it does hit it's just some luck, but you can't miss with Mega Pidgeot, so it becomes something very serious to consider. Given they gave the bird a large Sp.Att jump upon Mega Evolving, access to a high powered stab that won't miss, and has the same chance of getting a the confuse effect as Scald or Body Slam burning or paralyzing. Reason I bring up both is how each is viewed oppositely by the community of players where Scald is widely hated when it works since it's got a large distribution, useful activation rate, and most every mon you see using it gets STAB off it, and can do decent chip or high powered damage, where on the other range you don't realistically see a move like Body Slam anymore since there's no real justification on using it on more than like 5 Pokemon, Thunder Wave does the paralysis better, and you don't see many Normal types go with it anyway outside a select few. Kind of creating a ground line here, but Mega Bird's Hurricane starts rolling towards Scald levels of annoyances, since the luck or no luck hit move bypass it's one hindrance of accuracy, has a strong chance to confuse a target which then turns a fair portion of turns into 50/50s where it can bypass it's potential checks through Confusion (them hitting themselves and it hitting them in one turn), with fairly little draw back.

    Really what this is going to boil down to is where we draw the line on how far something luck based goes on affecting the metagame, and how much it really affects battles with set of ease or difficulty. If you have to send something in to take a Hurricane and it confuses, there's a fair chance you may have to sack the Pokemon you sent out because the damage they might do to themselves will kill it or any further attacks from Mega Pidgeot might. I really don't think that's exactly healthy to be around since it can bypass the Special Defensive Pokemon in the tier fairly easily, gives offensive teams problems since Scarf users aren't too hard to pick out, it's just have you partnered it with several things that can actively absorb hits that it can be called back and if it has enough HP to come out and repeat the whole thing. I do think there are checks and answers to it, but the active possibility that it turns match ups into 50/50s and the lack of say good Rock type checks outside Aerodactyl or resorting to Rhyperior is pretty iffy that something won't be turned into set up bait or fodder for it to set up, heal, or just kill off thanks to what confusion can do. Normally, I'm one that confusion is just part of the game, but having to potentially coinflip a win scenario for you just because it happens is a real turn off to play against, especially when it can bypass defensive teams fairly easily, and gives offensive teams a hard time because it's naturally faster so you do have to run a scarf user that can at least OHKO it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2015
  8. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    So, Mega Pidgeot. On paper, it seems somewhat manageable, being a classic Normal/Flying type with good speed and special attack in exchange for average bulk. This is what originally kept it in NU for a bit, but as time progressed people started to realize how terrifying this bird actually is. This is due in part to its combination of No Guard and Hurricane, which lets a move along the lines of Focus Blast hit with terrifying force when you consider the 110 base power of Hurricane and M-Pidgeot's base 135 Special Attack. This combination alone is terrifying, but anything that isn't handled with that (namely Steels) can be dealt with via Heat Wave.

    That being said, Pidgeot isn't without its problems. Pulling from the Viability list, I'll list off what can be a problem with Pidgeot to handle opposition-wise (with the bold being some of the best answers), then go into other flaws. Note: not including Mega Pidgeot because that'd be counter-intuitive.

    -Salamence
    -Victini
    -Mega Aerodactyl
    -Florges
    -Jirachi
    -Suicune
    -Staraptor
    -Mega Swampert
    -Mega Ampharos
    -Cresselia
    -Crobat
    -Porygon2
    -Mega Aggron
    -Darmanitan
    -Empoleon
    -Raikou
    -Snorlax
    -Umbreon
    -Rhyperior
    -Blissey
    -Goodra
    -Meloetta
    -Rotom-H
    -Milotic
    -Lanturn

    For my own personal preference, I'll go ahead and make tiny mention of Kecleon because, with an average spread, Ice Punch + Sucker makes quick work of the bird (barring confusion): 252+ Atk Protean Kecleon Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Pidgeot: 254-300 (82.4 - 97.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, 252 SpA Mega Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Kecleon: 106-126 (34.8 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO. Not to say Kecleon's good at all, but it is a check (confusion hax messes it up).

    Now, let's go into this giant list, shall we (starting with the bold)? Lanturn and Goodra are some of Mega Pidgeot's best answers from the lower tiers, with both taking pretty minor damage while hitting hard in their own rights (Specs Volt Switch has a good chance to OHKO, but is able to beat it out 1v1 via Scald+VS to finish for Lanturn, Goodra wraps shit up with Draco Meteor + T-Bolt (only needed if Rocks aren't up)). Rotom-H sits in a similar boat, but it must be careful due to having less bulk and even more so if Stealth Rocks are up.

    Rhyperior and Mega Aggron obviously wall Pidgeot's two main moves too while being to take care of it via Rock Blast or Stone Edge (Rhyperior) and T-Wave + Heavy Slam (Mega Aggron), depending on set. Empoleon's right there with them, eating up Hurricane and Heat Waves while dealing with it slowly via Scald (or, if more offensively ambitious, Ice Beam).

    Meloetta's offensive Assault Vest does a good deal too along with its CM, with the AV being able to tank better in this scenario and 2HKOing with T-Bolt (252 SpA Meloetta Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pidgeot: 234-276 (75.9 - 89.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO).

    Mega Ampharos and Mega Aerodactyl are the best checks however. Ampharos is the biggest defensive check due to being able to resist both of Mega Pidgeot's moves while having a chance to OHKO with Volt Switch (252 SpA Mega Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 248 HP / 232+ SpD Mega Ampharos: 63-75 (16.4 - 19.5%) -- possible 6HKO, 28 SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Volt Switch vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pidgeot: 288-338 (93.5 - 109.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO) (this spread isn't in the stats from September, but I personally prefer that one to the 232HP/232Def/44Spd spread that topped last month). With this combination of bulk and resistances, even Mega Pidgeot's confusion chances won't be bothering it, especially when you couple in the fact that Mega Ampharos has an effective RestTalk set most of the time. On the offensive side of things, Mega Aerodactyl is slightly shakier, but one of the best non-choiced options. On top of outspeeding Mega Pidgeot (121 vs 150, good luck Pidgeot), it has plenty of offensive force. Stone Edge easily OHKOs and, if you're don't have any more PP for that move, Aerial Ace can start OHKOing at +1 (guaranteed with Rocks).

    Pretty good list, right? Well... a bunch of this list can easily be mitigated. On top of Mega Pidgeot's standard set (Heat Wave, Roost, Hurricane, U-Turn), it has an equally threatening set that takes out a good amount of its threats -- Work Up + Refresh (Work Up, Hurricane, Refresh, Roost). With this secondary set in mind, we'll go through everything that wasn't bolded and explain why it isn't a full-proof answer.

    -Salamence -- This is more of a check than anything. It can't switch in for very good reason (252 SpA Mega Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Salamence: 222-262 (67 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) and the only way to beat it is with the Dragon Dance set, as the Bulky Mence is taken out via a 2HKO from Hurricane while not being able to kill it back (note: Work Up once gives you a 6.3% chance to OHKO without rocks, guaranteed with) whereas the Scarfed set cannot OHKO Mega Pidgeot.
    -Victini -- Another Pokemon that can't switch in. I will concede that the Scarfed set beats it as both V-Create and Bolt Strike OHKO, but again, it cannot switch into an attack as confusion could happen (takes it better than Mence, but still 2HKO). The Banded set (which I'd argue is the better set) obviously hits it harder, but fares worse due to moving second and again, cannot switch in. Mixtini falls in the same boat as the banded set.
    -Florges -- Straight-up loses to the Work Up set, not to mention if it hits itself in confusion, this special wall's not gonna be able to deal with it anymore. Its main hope lies in Moonblast lowering its Special Attack, but considering it's not a 2HKO most of the time, it's best not to hope on this working.
    -Jirachi -- Another check, mainly due to the Scarfed Haxrachi set. Lies in a similar boat that Victini does: Scarfed set can beat it, but the other sets have problems. Heat Wave is a surefire 2HKO here so it can't switch in and none of Rachi's moves OHKO.
    -Suicune -- Easily handled by the Work Up set, especially if confusion comes in. If it's set up prior to Pidgeot coming in, there can be problems but otherwise it's not that hard. Only thing it risks is being burned.
    -Staraptor -- Again, similar boat as Victini in that both the Scarf and Band sets beat it, but it can't switch in as, since it has less bulk than Victini, it can be OHKO'd by Hurricane.
    -Mega Swampert -- Only wins if Rain is up prior to Pidgeot coming in and if Hurricane doesn't confuse it. Waterfall does have a 62.5% chance of OHKOing in the rain and is definitely grateful to Rocks, but again, shaky because of needed conditions.
    -Cresselia -- Similar boat as Suicune. Tanky as hell, but can get past it with the Work Up set in addition to that oh-so-helpful confusion (+1 252 SpA Mega Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Cresselia: 220-261 (49.5 - 58.7%) -- 71.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery). A surefire answer if it has CM up prior and no confusion hax happens.
    -Crobat -- In Victini's boat, except no Scarf set is to be seen here. Crobat needs to be wary of Rocks on its side, and an OHKO with Brave Bird is not guaranteed (252 Atk Choice Band Crobat Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Pidgeot: 274-324 (88.9 - 105.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO). Also, this goes without saying, but Crobat cannot switch in.
    -Porygon2 -- Basically with Suicune and Cresselia, except this duck has Toxic instead of CM to try to beat it out alongside Ice Beam. If it's the Work Up + Refresh set, Porygon2's a sitting duck.
    -Darmanitan -- Similar boat as Victini, but an OHKO isn't guaranteed (252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Pidgeot: 272-322 (88.3 - 104.5%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO) and, just like everything else I've mentioned on the offensive side so far, cannot switch in.
    -Raikou -- Why's Raikou shaky? Simply put, there's two things that let Mega Pidgeot win here: confusion and a good amount of damage output (252 SpA Mega Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 32 HP / 0 SpD Raikou: 93-109 (28.2 - 33.1%) -- 91.5% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery). If Raikou's not in prior with at least CM (as Mega Pidgeot outspeeds), Raikou could turn into electric roadkill.
    -Snorlax: Just like Raikou, a seemingly solid answer will either walk out with a good amount of damage or not at all due to confusion. It's in a less pressurized boat due to Rest, but considering it can do a good number on itself with a +1 Curse in an attempt to 2HKO Pidgeot, it's more shaky than it'd appear. If it can Rest during the assault, it's fine. Probably the best answer in this list for that reason (low Hurricane damage + Rest opportunity).
    -Umbreon - Umbreon can tank Hurricanes all it wants, but it's to no avail. Foul Play does 30% at the most when you set Mega Pidgeot's Attack IVs to 0, which Pidgeot can easily Roost off. And Toxic? It's got Refresh, so try again. The standard set loses, but Work Up + Refresh wins easily here.
    -Blissey - See Umbreon, but replace "Foul Play" with Seismic Toss and bump the percent up to 32.4%.
    -Milotic - This Pokemon is only in this list (like a few others here) simply due to the fact that Hurricane can confuse. Scald and Ice Beam both 2HKO, but with access to Roost and Hurricane's confusion rate, taking down Mega Pidgeot turns a simple task into something that could turn out to be almost impossible. And it's not like it's lightly brushing off these hits either, as the only way it can 100% handle it is if it runs a specially defensive set instead of a physical one due to this damage output (if you remember the Noivern or Milotic suspects in NU, you'll remember the physical vs special argument for Milotic. It applies here) (252 SpA Mega Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Milotic: 153-180 (38.9 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery).

    As you can see, while I rattled off a crapload of Pokemon to begin with, a bunch of them can be mitigated with a combination of Hurricane's confusion, sheer power, and Work Up to cap it off. As for Pokemon that can beat it out, unless it's Scarfed or outspeeds (Mega Aerodactyl), it can easily U-Turn to safety. Stalling it out isn't an effective answer either due to Refresh being a main move at this point. As such, as something that looks very middle-of-the-road on paper, after you put together the data and take into account how high Hurricane's confusion rate is (30%), I feel very confident in saying Mega Pidgeot needs a ban from ORAS UU.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2015
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  9. Ice Tea

    Ice Tea :^#)

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    Mentioning mons like Kecleon, Lanturn, Goodra, AV Meloetta and shit shows how overcentralizing Mega Bird, you have to pick shit mons of lower tiers to be possibly able to hardcheck it (lol)? Everything just gets confused and dies or becomes a setup fodder, a Pokemon that has power + hax on his side is the defintion of broken, ban pls
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2015
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  10. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    I simply went off of what's on the viability list for those Pokes, excluding Kecleon which I mentioned for personal preference. I'd also like to note that Pidgeot was in NU and LU at one point and thus dealt with these Pokemon, so mentioning them is viable enough.
     
  11. Xdevo

    Xdevo Some things can't be changed Tiering Administrator Tour Director Tiering Administrator Tour Director

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    Goodra and AV Meloetta are hardly shit in UU. If you're going to attempt to make suspect posts at least coherently state why certain checks are mediocre or shit.

    Anyway, Pidgeot has the fortunate ability to threaten all of the various playstyles between its 2 (I guess you could argue for 3 sets) sets. The Attacker set hits very hard and with fantastic coverage and the obnoxious 30% confusion chance, but struggles with bulky things like Florges, Umbreon, Blissey, Snorlax, and Empleon. The Work Up set is a lot better against bulky threats, but it's pretty mediocre to bad against things like Mega Amphy, Mega Aero, and the more offensive checks to Pidgeot. This is the same situation as a lot of Pokemon (Salamence, Victini, Togekiss, Chandelure arguably, etc). Pidgeot has the benefit of that ~15% chance to circumvent a counter (30% to confuse* [50% chance to confuse - whatever the chance to break out of confusion turn 1 is]) and a very reliable healing move to go along with this. I feel it is these two factors that really push Pidgeot over the edge. Pidgeot is difficult to wear down because of Roost, and very difficult to guarantee a counter shy of a few mons (RestTalk Amphy). Because of these factors, I agree with a ban of Pidgeotite.
     
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  12. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    I'm slightly confused by this. This tells me you either didn't follow my formatting (bolded Pokemon as the better checks, which include Meloetta and Goodra) or you think my reasoning is shitty, which I believe I gave enough of (not everything I posted needed a calc, some stuff was self-evident like Goodra living Hurricane). Again, I listed them due to their presence on the viability list and considering they wouldn't be there if they were total shit, I stand by keeping them in my list of potential answers.
     
  13. Purpleseamonkey

    Purpleseamonkey PO Alt: y0

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    Mega Bird is very threatening due to high speed, power, and coverage of stab hurricane. That's all it needs; 100% acc, stab cane. This is the reason why the workup set is even possible because it can cover a vast majority of the game with this one move. Workup is generally inferior to the regular 4 attacks set but can bypass the usual checks such as blissey, Milotic, CM coon, cress and umbreon. The fact that this anti meta set is so popular speaks to the versatility and centralization of Pidgeot. Its ability to adapt (and still dominate) to changes in the metagame show how negative an impact Yaht has. Im strongly of the opinion that any checks that are not empoleon, rotom-H, MAmph, or rhypherior (ie: meloda, goodra, Kecleon, lanturn) are just reaching for stops and are not very good vs most of the uu tier atm.
    Basically hurricanes that strong and fast, have such low opportunity cost that the measure of many offensive teams right now is how many Pidgy checks they can fit (you've probably seen me using RotomH+SpcDEmp for the past 3 months). This is not only extremely restrictive to teambulding but does not even provide adequate stops due to the dual responsibilities of these mons, such as defogging and burning physical attackers.
    The ability to 2hko and outspeed most of the meta combined with a lot of movepool flexibility makes Pidgeot broken in uu
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2015
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  14. Xdevo

    Xdevo Some things can't be changed Tiering Administrator Tour Director Tiering Administrator Tour Director

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    I was responding to the person saying those mons were bad.
     
  15. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    My bad for over-reacting then. :oops:
     
  16. Funbot28

    Funbot28 Active Member

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    Was kinda late to the party here, so most of what I wanted to say has already been said. I knew Mega Pidgeot was gonna get suspected at one point in UU thanks to it's amazing STAB Hurricane's (with it's nasty side effect), and blistering 121 Speed and amazing 135 Sp. Atk. To me in the end it boils down to the 30% chance of confusing on Hurricane that makes it potentially broken in my eyes, as it definitely has checks and counters that where mentioned in the thread previously. I don't have enough fingers to count the amount of times I brought in my check/counter on Pidgeot, only for it to get confused and hit itself, inevitably making me lose my way to deal with it. It if wasn't for this, I wouldn't have a problem with Mega Pidgeot, and would advocate it to stay in UU due to it's average bulk and extremely poor movepool. But confusion hax is too hard to handle in UU atm, which ultimately makes me vote ban on Mega Pidgeot, which is sad because I really thought it had great potential to remain in UU at the beginning of ORAS.
     
  17. E.T.

    E.T. Proud Member Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader

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    I'm also supporting a ban of Mega Pidgeot. Initially though, it didn't seem like something that was broken to me because it does have several checks and counters like Mega Aerodactyl, Specially Defensive Jirachi, Mega Ampharos, Cresselia, Porygon2, Empoleon, Raikou, Snorlax, Rhyperior, Goodra, Meloetta, Rotom-H, Slowking, and Lanturn. However, the Work Up+Refresh set allows Mega Pidgeot to bypass things that could normally deal with a standard attacking set. Also, the biggest issue, and what will probably get Mega Pidgeot banned, is that it has an easily spamable Hurricane that has a 30% of causing confusion on switch-ins or bulky Pokemon that just try to stall it. I mean, Mega Pidgeot also has an excellent speed tier and pretty good special attack anyway, but the ability to hax past its checks and counters with confusion is unhealthy for the tier.
     
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  18. NananaBatman

    NananaBatman Well-Known Member

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    Hi hello I end suspects.

    So pidgeot is a pretty powerful mon with a fairly spammable move in No Guard Hurricane. Checks/Counters do exist (mega amphy, empoleon, aerodactyl are some popular answers). However, Hurricane being the fair move that it is, can allow Mega Pidgeot to bs its way past its checks/counters. Mega Bird Jesus may not be a supremely destructive force that blows through teams super easily, but the amount of "hax" (or luck) it brings to the table is unhealthy for the meta; Mega Pidgeot will therefore be Banned from ORAS UU.
     
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