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[ORAS] ORAS OU Viability Rankings (Take 2)

Discussion in 'Past Gens Discussion' started by Funbot28, Oct 11, 2015.

Moderators: Isa, sulcata
  1. Purpleseamonkey

    Purpleseamonkey PO Alt: y0

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    I agree with lowering Altaria. While it has a lot of versatility, it is mostly inferior to Gardivor or Zard X depending on the set.

    Agree with hippo to A. Sand offense is not as good now that excadrill has trouble cleaning teams as efficiently. Matches are much longer, because of this 5 turns is often insufficient and life orb damage becomes much more of an issue. Tyranitar is better than hippo because of the versatility to be mixed or choiced, allowing for far more team flexibility. As a physical wall it is outclassed by lando and chomp imo. Sableye being very good also means it is useless in many matches.->

    Very strongly disagree with MEye going to A+. With hoopa gone, there are a ton of opportunities to check top offensive threats with just a few mons. This allows Sableye to thrive in its passive stall/stall breaking role. With wilo and high pp moves like knock off and foul play, Sableye can disrupt most supportive mons while still checking physical attackers. This is very powerful in a physical oriented hazard control meta; which has a slower pace then before. Because of its ability to extend the length of matches by neutralizing support and stopping sweepers, sableye should stay S.

    We should consider dropping Weavile. It is no where near as good as it once was. The best two megas, Sableye and Scizor, are hard counters. All types of teams can fit checks such as keldieo and Azumarill that are very scary to give free turns to. Many of the things it is suppose to check, such as lando, it cant switch in on or OHKO; so it is more of a matchup draw then a check. Offencvie teams can destroy it with priority or pivot with rotom or key. Many slower teams can just run hard counters. Because of this Weavile should drop to A

    I feel nothing about excarill. While sand sweeper is worse, its role as a mold breaker rocker is more important then ever and it is the best spinner in the tier (sorry starmie)
     
  2. Edna

    Edna I'm like Cinderella with an umbrella Forum Moderator Article Contributor Forum Moderator Article Contributor

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    Why is Sylveon B- meanwhile Mega Bee is B

    Sylveon for B+/A-: Having excellent defenses, a very good spe atk, one of the most reliable counter to Kyurem-B alongside Scizor I feel like Sylveon is one of the best wish passer of the tier. Hyper Voice means it can bypass subs such as Keldeos and it has a very good staying power.

    Mega Bee from B to D: why would you even play that, dual stab being totally blocked by half the tier, bad defense, one move being Protect and the other is either Drill Run or Knock off, being ohkoed by nearly all physical priority moves if the user is band ( Band Azu, Band Scizor etc ), this pokemon literally adds nothing to the tier and you'ld better use scizor for uturn abuse.
     
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  3. Blitzamirin

    Blitzamirin Waluigi! Number one!

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    A B+/A- rise is too much rofl. Sylveon's literally only niche is as a Choice Specs wallbreaker because everything else it can do is done by Clefable. And in there it faces competition from Mega Garde, and while that's a mega and can't dry pass, it gets access to 40 more base speed than Sylveon and other options like Focus Blast / STAB Psyshock / WoW / Taunt that make it a more effective wallbreaker. Oh, and Iron Head Kyu-B says hi to Sylveon. Keep it where it is or put it in C+

    The tier isn't kind to Mega Bee at all but dropping it to the unviable rank is an understatement of what it can do. Its biggest hurdle is the pre-MEvo speed which means it has to forgo a moveslot for Protect (and even then, this allows it to scout Choice sets). It's gigantic base speed means it can throw 2x U-turns around while maintaining momentum - this is chip damage that racks up very quickly given that Mega Bee outspeeds the entire tier with its monstrous speed. If losing to a priority is an argument then drop Mega Diancie for losing to Bullet Punch or Latios for losing to Sucker Punch - Mega Bee has no business being in front of any Steel type, Ice Shard from Weavile doesn't even OHKO after rocks before it is OHKOed itself, same with Azumarill which is more of a gamble (mostly in Azu's favor but still). Lower it to B- or the C ranks if you're gonna do that.
     
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  4. Edna

    Edna I'm like Cinderella with an umbrella Forum Moderator Article Contributor Forum Moderator Article Contributor

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    My main issue about Beedrill is the fact TankChomp, Tanklando, Rocky Ferrothorn are all very played in the current meta and make Bee very useless. 25% from rocks coupled with the ~31% from these items means it will be exposed to any kind of priority, that was my point. Being fast and hiting strong is important, having the movepool and the typing is better. I really see no reasons at all to play mega bee in OU, which is why I said D rank. I am ok for it dropping to C

    I have to confess I agree with the points you raised about Sylveon, I personally used it for a long moment as a dragon check, but it sure has drawbacks
     
  5. Purpleseamonkey

    Purpleseamonkey PO Alt: y0

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    Sylveon does overlap with clef and chansey as a wish passer. But its main advantage is that it has the best offensive presence of the three with one attack. This enables it to be used on balance as a heal bell/wish supporter. Chansey and clef are better used on staller type teams anyway. Sylveon gives you higher defenses than clef and a more spamable stab. It does not give free switch ins to Rain Mana, Gengar, Gliscor. These fast stallbreakers are a big problem for balance. Add in the fact that ironhead kyurem is bad and kyurem can 2hko chansey and clef with life orb outrage/icebeam. While sylveon is out performed on certain types of teams, when also considering a specs set; it has enough traits to put it in line with B

    It would make sense that Mdrill should be in the C. While I think most things in C+ are clearly better, the power of the strongest unboosted uturn in the game should not be understated. With good teambuilding it can be a viable strategy

    Azumarill is really good but unfortunately just under S imo. Both charizards are really good rn. Sap sipper Rill is a legitimate threat that checks a ton of stuff like any fire type and keldeo and any dark type and serperior. Band and belly drum are very good in a tier hungry for wallbreakers but do face coverage/rockyhelm/speed issues. While I would say that, right now, Azumarill is more viable than Clafable, this is more due to people being over prepared for clefable and Azu being anti meta. Really versatile but it has to pick its checks and counters best in A+ but something to keep an eye on
     
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  6. Kite

    Kite hi

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    agreed. Aslo, on the topic of Sylveon, I was going to add: have you seen the DESTRUCTIVE POWER of HYPER VOICE/BEAM SYLVEON!? it's a nuke.
     
  7. AnuncioBot

    AnuncioBot Member

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    Hello everyone, what do you think about Tangrowth?

    [​IMG]
    For me, it is one of the Pokémon that gained more space in recent weeks.
    AV set is an excellent response to Keldeo, Mega Diancie, and even Manaphy and Thundurus.
    While the Physical Defense set is very good against Excadrill and Landorus-T, Breloom.
    Your movepool is also very interesting; Knock Off removes Leftovers from Heatran, AV / LO Tornadus-T, and also has Leaf Storm (strong hit against Manaphy), Sludge Bomb, Hidden Power Ice / Fire, Earthquake, Rock Slide can surprise Talonflame and Charizard in switch.
    It is a solid choice for stall / semi-stall and even a good glue for more offensive teams.

    This could be B + or A-.
     
  8. E.T.

    E.T. OHHHH YES!!! Tier Leader Server Administrator Articles Leader Tier Leader Server Administrator Articles Leader

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    Volcanion needs to be added to this list. I'll probably post more after I've had time to play with it.

    Also, the images for the ORAS megas are broken.
     
  9. Oh So Penspin

    Oh So Penspin Hail RNGesus, our Lord and Saviour!

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    I'd say Volcanion is A or A+ at the moment. The specs set is a devastating wallbreaker with very few switch ins, while it can also run a defensive set and AV. It has an amazing defensive typing, which gives it a lot of 4x resistances and a Scald immunity, which is huge in the current meta where Scald spam is very common. It's a good check to common mons such as Scizor and Azumaril and works against every playstyle.

    That being said, 80 70 base speed is not great, especially because you also want to invest some EVs in bulk. It struggles to break through bulky waters and bulky dragons, which are both relatively common in the meta. Finally, it has no reliable recovery and an SR weakness, which means it needs some team support to deal with that.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2016
  10. AnuncioBot

    AnuncioBot Member

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    Landorus-T A+> S

    No other A + Pokémon is so flexible compared to Lando-T.
    Solid 145 base Atk, powerful STAB Earthquake and decent coverage Stone Edge.
    Ground / Flying gives only two weaknesses; Ice and water, easily covered by any bulky water.
    Resistance Bug, Fighting and Poison, as well as two important immunities; Electric and Ground, consequently, Thunder Wave.
    One of the most solid and reliable users of Stealth Rock in the game.

    Lando-T can perform various functions, wall, pivot, Revenge Killer. Taking offensive or defensive way, as needed.
    89/90 HP and defense are not huge, but with Intimidate makes Lando-T one of the best responses against Mega Lopunny, Charizard X, Sand Offense (aka Excadrill).
    Also, Landorus-T can use a variety of items, Rocky Helmet to punish physical attackers who make contact, Leftovers for longevity, Choice Scarf for Reverge Kill and speed control.
    Personally, I like a lot of Earth Plate, because helps to press Mega Sableye, Clefable 2HKO and others.
    Other options would still be Yache Berry to resist Hidden Power Ice and KO Manectric / Raikou / Thundurus, and Lum Berry as a lead.
    Landorus-T has a huge variety of moves in his arsenal.
    Strong STAB Earthquake. Stone Edge, U-Turn for momentum, Knock Off to remove items, Stealth Rock, Swords Dance, Rock Polish.
    Among other not very common, Hidden Power Ice against Garchomp and other Landorus-T, Toxic against Hippowdon and Rotom-W. Smash Down / Gravity for Skarmory and Rotom-W. Explosion.

    It is extremely flexible, defensive Rocks, Rocks offensive, SD Rocks lead, Rocky Helmet pivot, Choice Scarf, Double Dance.
    In short, it easily fits into several teams with a low cost and many benefits.
    One of the most ironic situations in the current metagame is Landorus-T being used against Landorus-T.
    Landorus-T influences strongly teambuilder, and should go to S.


    About Volcanion, it is slow, weak to Stealth Rock, no recovery or Taunt.
    The best set, imo, is spam Steam Eruption with Choice Specs / Splash Plate, with other moves as Fire Blast, Earth Power, Hidden Power Grass and Sludge Bomb / Wave for coverage.
    Water Absorb is great against Scald spam in the current metagame.
    Steam Eruption is ridiculously strong. Specs + Burn is 2HKO Slowbro.
    Volcanion can check Azumarill and Mega Sableye, this makes it incredibly interesting.
    I still would like to test the set Rest Talk.
    Still not sure, but I think it should be between A and A +.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2016
  11. Funbot28

    Funbot28 Active Member

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    Ok so another long update incoming:

    Code (text):
    1. Mega Charizard-X: S to A+
    2. Volcanion: Unranked to A+
    3. Mega Altaria: A+ to A
    4. Tyranitar: A to A+
    5. Mew: A to A-
    6. Mega Slowbro: A to A-
    7. Latias: A to B+
    8. Mega Latias: B+ to A-
    9. Breloom: B+ to A-
    10. Amoonguss: B to B+
    11. Celebi: B to B-
    12. Crawdaunt: B - to B
    13. Heracross: C to C+
    14. Smeargle: C to C-
    15. Forretress: C to C-
    16. Salamence: D to C-
    17.  

    @Celestial Phantom @Aurist Can you guys also fix the ORAS mega sprites? I don't know what happened

    P.S Scolipede and Hippowdon were not moved from the last update.
     
  12. Edna

    Edna I'm like Cinderella with an umbrella Forum Moderator Article Contributor Forum Moderator Article Contributor

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    Fixed the sprites.
     
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  13. Edna

    Edna I'm like Cinderella with an umbrella Forum Moderator Article Contributor Forum Moderator Article Contributor

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    Ok I did everything, but what ranking should Scoli and Hippo be? :)
     
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  14. Funbot28

    Funbot28 Active Member

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    Scolipede to C+ and Hippowdon to A

    Elize: done
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 26, 2016
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  15. Oh So Penspin

    Oh So Penspin Hail RNGesus, our Lord and Saviour!

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    Just curious; what metagame trend made Breloom go from B+ to A-? I barely ever see it anymore.
     
  16. Edna

    Edna I'm like Cinderella with an umbrella Forum Moderator Article Contributor Forum Moderator Article Contributor

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    I guess Mega Venusaur losing popularity made Breloom more a threat. Also the fact it can 6-0 some stalls teams if they don't have Amoonguss or if Breloom is SD 3 atks. I'm not sure cause not in the council
     
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  17. AnuncioBot

    AnuncioBot Member

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    I feel that things here are few dead, but anyway, I'll talk about Landorus-T (again).

    Unfortunately there is currently a database for use in ORAS OU in PO, but I believe that many players use influences of showdown and these are reflected here. Well, I would not want to quote another simulator, but it will not make much difference.

    [​IMG]
    Landorus-T is notably the most used Pokémon in the tier, decent bulk more a ability that makes the main physical sponge in metagame, serving as a general check for the most varied physical threats such as Mega Lopunny, Charizard X, Excadrill among others.
    The defensive set, is a solid Stealth Rock user, while U-Turn gains momentum and makes Landorus-T a dynamic threat.
    Then we have Stealth Rock, U-Turn and its solid STAB Earthquake. Where the 4th move is a flexible opportunity to help against its major checks and counters; Smack Down (unusual I know) against Skarmory and Rotom-W, Toxic to Slowbro, Hidden Power Ice or remove items with Knock Off.

    Choice Scarf Landorus-T is a reliable speed control since XY, U-Turn and a powerful STAB Earthquake, as well as being faster than Scarfdrill and Adamant Char X after DD.

    Double Dance Landorus-T is a potent sweeper, grateful to huge 145 base atk and immunity to Thunder Wave, being immune to Spikes and neutral against Stealth Rock.

    There are still other options as offensive Rocks, Explosion and etc, but the conclusion is that Landorus-T is extremely flexible, serving for a variety of teams and predominant usage (almost 1/3 of the teams), with that I consider valid that should be Rank S.

    [​IMG]
    Amoonguss has become very popular for being a strong answer against Breloom, Clefable, and even Mega Diancie, and some variants of Mega Altaria and Thundurus. Besides being present in popular stall teams.
    A good sponge and glue not only to stall, but also balanced teams.
    But the main point, is one of the best answer against Keldeo, since it is not weak against (insert a suspect pls>) Pursuit. This could go to A-.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2016
  18. Funbot28

    Funbot28 Active Member

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    Ok reviving this, here are the changes to S-A ranks:

    Code (text):
    1.  
    2. Drops:
    3. Mega Sableye: S to A
    4. Mega Alakazam: A+ to A
    5. Mega Charizard X: A+ to A
    6. Mega Gardevoir: A+ to A
    7. Thundurus: A+ to A
    8. Volcanion: A+ to A
    9. Mega Altaria: A to B
    10. Raikou: A to B+
    11. Mega Gyarados: A to B+
    12. Alakazam: A- to B+
    13. Magnezone: A- to B
    14. Mega Gallade: B+ to C+
    15. Mega Tyranitar: B to B-
    16. Sylveon: B- to C
    17.  
    18. Rises:
    19. Excadrill: A to A+
    20. Rotom-W: A to A+
    21. Amoonguss: B+ to A-
    22. Mega Latias: B+ to A-
    23. Tangrowth: B+ to A-
    24. Chansey: B to B+
    25.  
    Discuss B-D ranks now!

    @Aurist @Celestial Phantom do your magic please ;)
     
  19. AnuncioBot

    AnuncioBot Member

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    [​IMG] Lando-T > S
    Smogon finally put in S, stats, type, movepool, versatility and utility make it extremely influential in TeamBuild.

    [​IMG] Mega Medicham > A+
    Extremely hard to make a switch, HJK is INSANE. No need to use multiple sets to be destructive, coverage, priority and power.

    [​IMG] Tangrowth > A
    Definitely a mon who won a lot of space in the metagame, physical defense and Assault Vest are two great sets with a decent movepool, Tangrowth has good defensive qualities without becoming passive.
     
  20. Kland

    Kland One true god

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    very decent list tbh

    entei should be B tbh it's got very well round stats access to extreme speed and a power stab in sacred fire it's atleast as good as the following pokemon in b

    you have mega latios in black list and in c. You should change it to be one or the other
     
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