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[Monotype] Metagrossite Suspect [Banned]

Discussion in 'Gen 6 Side Metagames' started by Edna, Oct 31, 2015.

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  1. Edna

    Edna Chasing the Dragon Forum Moderator Tournament Host Forum Moderator Tournament Host

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    [​IMG]

    Discuss the effects of Mega Metagross on the Monotype metagame and the possibility of banning it. Post intelligently based off of experience in the metagame. Posts based off theorymon risk forum infractions. i.e. if you play Monotype at all, then post.

    Attempt to find the checks and counters (or lack thereof) for Mega Metagross as well as its impact and power in the metagame. Do not simply say "it's broken" or "it's not broken". Back up your arguments on why you think it should be banned or not.

    If a consensus is reached or a clear majority is established, then the result will likely be implemented in the metagame, otherwise it will go to a vote. Happy suspecting.
     
    sulcata likes this.
  2. Joyverse

    Joyverse Back for a blast!

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    Sigh I was waiting for post but sigh :/
    Sulcata incoming wall of text for you. Don't ban me ;-;

    So basically it's time for me to list out the solutions for MMeta type wise. Leggo.
    I'll take into consideration this set:-
    [email protected]
    252 Atk/Speed 4 on w/e or 212 Atk/40 SpA/252 speed
    Jolly or Hasty nature.
    Meteor Mash
    Zen Headbutt
    Earthquake/Hammer Arm
    Grass Knot/Ice Punch/Pursuit

    Fire-From what I remember after facing multiple MMetas using my own fire team. There are no counters for it in fire. ScarfTini can come in to kill with VC but unless Tran(considering steel) is alive then it's not much of use. +1/+1 Zard X clean kos with Flare Blitz given that it has boosted before or has tanked a EQ(lel) or a ZenHB which KOs after rocks. Torkoal cannot counter as long as rocks+EQ exist and Aegi is there to spin block either way. Special Infernape (idk phys)/Tran/Chandelure all KO it Fire Blast/Flamethrower before it megas. And Air Balloon Tran can check Metagross as long it hasn't lost its balloon+no hammer arm. Banded Talon can at best revenge kill. Same goes for ScarfTini. Rotom-H can drop a wisp/twave and cripple it for the rest of the game after tanking one hit but that's not much possible after rocks :/ But hey a combined effect from all the members of the fire team matters vs.Metagross but lel we ain't fitin 6v1 so. You know.
    Steel- Aegislash counters the Non-EQ versions with ease. A defensive build instead of the usual sp.def build can help counter EQ versions. Skarm counters the EQ versions but Hammer Arm makes Metagross out slow skarm at like uh.. -3/-4 which means the end of Skarm if it roosts. Air Balloon Tran checks EQ versions of Metagross again. Magnezone scarfed helps in trapping Metagross (it still cannot switch in) and do a neat amount of damage with HP Fire/Switch/Tbolt and can help in recent killing. Scarf Tran revenge kills too. Ferro checks non-Hammer versions. Bisharp revenge kills too.
    Water- Slowbro counters non-GK versions ez. I even used Slowbro with sp.def invests which helped me check even the GK versions. Slowbro can then continue to either Twave(jajaja)/or scald to burn. Rotom-W IMO is an OK check but it cannot outright counter as ZHB 2hkos. Pony helps in revenge killing and Mega Gyara at +1/+1 will most likely KO with Crunch. However Hammer arm/GK do way too much on it so mah... and GK isn't even physical so can't even ab00s the -1 I get off intimidate. Aside from that Metagross rips apart water teams. Ferro takes care of most water mons either way.
    Normal- Aegislash+Skarm lol
    Grass-LOLOLOLOL!
    Ice-Is revenge killed by KyuB, Sub KyuB has a chance if it has a sub up. LO/Band Weavile does a 2HKO iirc.
    Dark- Cannot comment on this as I dont know the matchup well.
    Dragon- TankChomp checks but Ice Punch OHKOs. Moxie Scarf mence rkills. Otherwise Meta sweeps ez.
    Flying- Skarm is a good check thats kinda it. Rocks up and meta sweeps through. Landoscarf forces a switch on it doe.
    Ground- Rush LO Exca kos. Hippo tanks as long as no GK. Otherwise with these gone there is only a scarf Nido that might kill :/
    Bug- Defensive Scizor leggo!! NP Imma jus kidding :P
    Rest others- metagross cleans through.
    And ohoh, I was talking of Mmeta in MonoSteel, MonoPsycho does has Mega Madicam and Mega Gallade for physical sweeping so ye.

    I think Metagross is way too much for atm. I wanna see some argument against a ban rn for the lulz tbh.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2015
  3. sulcata

    sulcata stéphane curry best waifu Forum Moderator Server Administrator Forum Moderator Server Administrator

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    I don't know about steel having too many issues with Mega Metagross as long as you have something along the lines of Aegislash+Ferrothorn/Skarmory/Bronzong/whatever. And then there's Bisharp as you mentioned. This might not be too much of an issue if Mega Metagross is paired with Magneton/Magnezone, getting rid of whatever you need it to really.

    I haven't really played with Mega Metagross a whole lot, so I'll by trying some things out.
     
  4. Edna

    Edna Chasing the Dragon Forum Moderator Tournament Host Forum Moderator Tournament Host

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    I'll discuss a bit of Megagross on Monosteel. Not that it is bad in Monopsy but you'ld better use Mega Gardevoir or Mega Medicham for obvious reasons ( mainly dealing with Dark more easily)

    Megagross has ubers stats, a massive attack, a good speed, and an amazing natural bulk. Couple to that a good ability that boosts nearly all its moves for the same amount Life Orb does.

    You mainly find Megagross in hazard stacking archetype ( something like Heatran, Ferro, Aegi, Bisharp and Skarmory) and it does provide a huge pressure to a lot of types ( mainly flying, Fighting, Dragon)

    Meteor Mash and Zen Headbutt are very good in Monotype, so I think they're very viable. Ice punch is, in my opinion, a necessity because it allows dealing with Ground and flying mons ( Steelbreaker Gliscor says hi) more easily. Last move depends on what you need, if you want to deal with Heatran and Bisharp, Eq is good. If you need Hammer Arm to beat 1v1 non Counter Skarmory, if you need Substitute to avoid priorities and gain momentum it also works. Another interesting moves could be Rock Slide ( ohko Volcarona and Zard that don't mega to avoid being ohkoed by EQ ( works rarely since Zen better in this scenario) and for more hax. Pursuit is useless in Mono, you don't need to trap the likes of latwins to prepare a Keldeo sweeping. Grass knot is also very situational when Ferrothorn is Monowater nemesis.

    In terms of counter: due to how Mono is very offensive oriented, I think Megagross lacks enough counters. Most of its counters are steel types but it's irellevant since Steel vs Steel is first Heatran to survive who wins. Skarmory is decent in Monoflying, Dragon has nothing ( Garchomp gets ohkoed by ice punch), fire loses to rocks anyway, so megagross just cleans everything, Water has Gyarados, but then again Ferro just walls it with Power Whip, Ground can deal with it but Driller needs LO to ohko it, it still gets a kill which is not bad, Electric gets smashed easily by hazard stack and normal is like losing straight to Bisharp+ Aegi.

    Tldr: Megagross is one of the best mega of the game, its presence in Monotype is hard to handle as it generates extremely powerfull cored based on hazards ( partially the reason why Monosteel is so good now)
     
  5. gengar17

    gengar17 someone turn this nothing into gengar

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    Alright so as carl said, psy has better options so i'll discuss metagross in steel only.
    steel has always had tons of issues with the likes of keldeo, infernape, opposing heatrans, hippo, zard, garchomp and whatever other fire types and ground types.

    Then megagross happened. it outspeeds every single one of those mons and has a way to deal with almost every one of them in 1 set, zen headbutt meteor mash ice punch and hammer arm/grass knot. Now your choice between hammer arm and grass knot depends on how well the rest of ur team deals with hippo and slowbro, as well as gastrodon i guess, which are all 2hkoed easily on the switch or even 1v1 if slowbro fishes for scald or hippo tries to do not-enough damage with eq.

    The only set back megagross currently has is : how is it going to mega evolve without fainting or being burnt first. if u think about it, keldeo and infernape can almost single handedly smash steel mono and not even give metagross a chance to mega evolve (in keldeo's case it's burn risk or specs hydro roll, although specs keldeo might be played around with ferrothorn/aegi/skarm).

    So metagross has to find a way to mega evolve vs something slower, when facing tougher matchups in order to be threatening at all, but if it does, then it's gonna do work, and turn a probable loss to a probable win due to its excellent speed and atk and movepool.

    Now looking at a less common but still somewhat annoying matchup for steel, which is fighting. You can pretend the keldeo and infernape i was talking about represented fire and water monos respectively for now.
    Metagross, if it gets a chance to mega evolve, which isnt too hard as long as infernape and keldeo arent in front of it, it's gonna 6-0. only things stopping it are scarf users which would just fall apart vs the versatility of types and bulk of steel mono.

    Now, coming back to water, zen headbutt + grass knot + either hammer arm or eq are able to just completely 2hko the whole mono. there are no switchins except rotom-w and bulky starmie. rotom is a shaky switch in since it cant continuously come in especially if rocks are up, while bulky starmie has little to no offensive presence vs steel (offensive starmie gets 2hkoed by any of megagross's stab if it takes 1 life orb hit and steel has ferrothorn to wall it to hell and back)

    Flying only has gyarados and skarmory to switch in if it has ice punch, and metagross's partners can easily take care of either, namely ferrothorn, magnezone, aegislash in skarmory's case and gyarados (pre mega on the switch i guess), and heatran in skarmory's case.

    Dark and Psy hardly have any switchins, physically defensive mandibuzz + physically deefnsive mew, slowbro unless it has grass knot, victini can take a hit since it often runs scarf and/or megagross isnt packing EQ, but steel got heatran for all of those, as well as bisharp but that's not really a metagross issue just terrible matchup. there's also bronzong but eh.. shouldnt be an issue for literally any other steel type.

    Vs types like poison for example, megagross adds a nightmare to the opposing teams, since it's already hard enough (but doable) for poison to win, now it has to deal with a 350 speed psychic type, speed tieing with the 2nd fastest mon, gengar, and only being outsped by crobat which cant do much to it.
    It also helps dealing with electric mono and dragon mono, since it gets a better stab to hit electric with as well as surviving any hit from mega manectric (overheat is a roll), and dragon mono since it outspeeds hydreigon which can be a pain as well as surviving dark pulse from scarf hydreigon (if naive gross, it's a roll heavily in gross's favour)

    Anyway what im trying to say is, megagross might be too much for mono
     
  6. gengar17

    gengar17 someone turn this nothing into gengar

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    Ok so since it's been 2 weeks, and Mega Metagross boasts incredible attack and speed with great coverage with moves boosted by its ability, alongside its ability to handpick its counters with a varied moveset (MMash, Zen, ice punch, EQ, Hammer Arm, grass knot), as well as having very decent bulk, and good teammates to support it, Metagrossite will be banned from Monotype.
    Thank you for your participation!
     
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