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[Video Games] Melee vs Smash 4: Which does PO Prefer?

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Epikhairz, Dec 20, 2015.

  1. Epikhairz

    Epikhairz Delta Stream

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    I've been noticing a little bit of the Melee/Sm4sh dichotomy in Oak's thread (mostly anti-Melee) about Smash 4 along with some not-so-subtle jabs at the Melee playerbase, and I wanted to talk about it a little. Problem is, I don't want to clutter Oak's thread with this stuff since he's obviously put a lot of effort into starting some discussion about the improvement of sm4sh and I don't want to diverge from that, so I've made a new thread.

    So, users of PO, let's settle this once and for all: which game do you prefer, and most importantly, why?

    For now, I'll just say that in my opinion, Melee >>> Sm4sh, and I'll probably elaborate on this later because I have a lot of reasons for taking this stance. You'll probably be seeing them in the form of rebuttals against pro-Sm4sh/anti-Melee users

    Feel free to debate and stuff (just dont go out of line and say that we should kill the melee fanbase...)

    EDIT: oops i forgot that there was an option for adding a poll. o well
    EDIT2: got a strawpoll instead http://strawpoll.me/6315033
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2015
  2. Professor Oak

    Professor Oak same Forum Administrator Server Owner Social Media Rep Forum Administrator Server Owner Social Media Rep

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    In terms of watching it, I prefer Melee. The faster paced battling, the big personalities that are already in the community due to it being a 13-year-old game, the sheer ability, APM and skill of the players that STILL manage to find new ways to play with old characters, it's great to watch.

    In terms of playing it... Melee again. I can't for the life of me do any of the decent tech for the game, but Melee just feels better to play in my hands overall. It's hard to describe exactly why when it's just a personal feeling =/

    Smash 4 is still hype as fuck to watch sometimes. Watching Zer0 absolutely dominate early Smash 4, and then watching Nairo finally beat Zer0 in-bracket, it was fantastic to see. The top-level play is good to see, and Smash 4 overall is easier to get into if you are a newer player to the game or series, compared to Melee having a steep learning curve if you wish to compete at the top levels.

    With regards to the in-game content, whilst Smash 4 annihilates Melee with its roster and stage selection and music selection and custom specials, I feel like Smash 4 is a disappointment in terms of the content given to you. There's just not much depth to it all, it's mostly "fight the guys" and that's it. After having a big single player adventure in Brawl, having Smash Tour in Smash Wii U seems like a slap to the face.

    Melee at least introduced Adventure, Multi-Man Melee, Home-Run Contest, Events and All Star, which were massive additions at the time. Hell, I still think Melee's All Star is the best incarnation of the mode yet.

    Brawl had Subspace, a Challenge board, Boss Battles, Final Smashes and Co-op events, as well as introducing Wifi battles, all huge additions which expanded the game in ways Melee could not on a technical level. Break the Targets was made slightly worse, and Adventure was taken over by Subspace.

    Smash 3DS at least has Smash Run, which is a hell of a lot more fun than Smash Tour is on Wii U. Special Orders, especially Crazy Orders, are fun on Wii U. Target Blast is a bit shit in my opinion. 8-player Smash is a nice addition, and Amiibo support is nice too... but that's it. They took out a big adventure mode like Adventure from Melee or Brawl's Subspace and they removed Break the Targets, the first time it's been out of the series since the original game. Those two things make the entire game feel empty to me.

    Looking at the content that was improved upon and the content given to you, Melee was a vast improvement over 64, but Smash 4 is only an improvement in technology and roster (and mechanics) over Brawl. So I have to say Melee > Smash 4.
     
  3. Xdevo

    Xdevo Phrasing Super Moderator Tour Director Super Moderator Tour Director

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    I honestly prefer playing Brawl to either Melee or Sm4sh. I understand that people like the fast pace of Melee, but I find it more annoying than anything since everything is so twitch reflex reliant.

    Brawl had a lot more content than either 3DS or Smash4U, with a much better story attached to it in SubSpace. Smash run is kinda fun, but it always ends up with me using a player shit at whatever the ending event is (fuck playing lucas or ness on the jumping one). Also the controls for 3DS Smash is pretty bad, which is super annoying because I have absolutely no desire to buy a Wii U.
     
  4. pokemonnerd

    pokemonnerd Only uso listens to pnerd. Devo too. Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    I was expecting to be the only vote for Sm4sh or for it to be a landslide, but was surprised when I evened up the votes.

    In terms of watching, Melee dominates Sm4sh. It's a wonderful spectator's sport since the fast pace only highlights how insane people's reactions and reads can be while dashing around. It's like a constant scramble situation and that's why it's so fun to watch. Plus when you get one of the lower tier champions in tournaments it gets very fun to watch besides seeing space animals, puff and marth with the occasional peach everywhere. My only complaint of melee woud be the balance, since there are characters that are just objectively better than others.

    Which is why I like Sm4sh when I choose to play one of them better. Obviously in a fighting game with so huge a roster, some sense of balance will be weighted towards certain characters. I think they did a very good job with giving 90% of the characters options to counteract projectiles, work around fast characters and otherwise still be able to perform in tournaments. Obviously some like Little Mac have crippling flaws but that's just the nature of the roster, you're going to have characters that over specialize in the air or ground.

    Watching Sm4sh varies on match up and player skill. Dabuzz matches are slow as hell since he camps a lot, and he has a more defensive Rosalina to begin with. But matches like Nairo vs Trela are great to watch since they're pretty evenly paced, not too much camping and their sets are not over in less than 3 minutes.

    The side games of past smashes were fun but I don't really care for them much. Adventure mode isn't really that much of a loss in my eyes since you play it once then you know everything about it. Boss Rush mode was fun on Brawl though. And I love smash run.

    I'm surprised @Aurist hasn't weighed in on this, but maybe he's sparing us the sight of his creepy drag queen avatars.
     
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  5. Aurist

    Aurist I do not jump for joy. I frolic in doubt.

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    Haven't posted on this yet just because it would take me so long to get out all my thoughts. I kinda feel like we don't need to make a choice when both games are alive and well. Melee is a beautiful, bizarre fluke that probably could never happen in a recent time and is something we've found a lot of depth in through systems limited by technologies at the time - constraints which we've outgrown but perhaps not for the best, because current technologies and design philosophies seem very lost in how much breadth they can have in their features. I can't say I don't prefer Melee overall but that may be out of fondness for the genius that comes out of more constrained systems.

    The advantages for Smash 4 are numerous too though. One thing is that Melee is so insanely deep that even going far down the rabbit hole you feel like you can never, ever catch up with people who have been doing so for several more years than you. With Smash 4 it's quite new and fresh even now, you can dive in headfirst and get to truly know the game quite quick, and there's still always more to learn. Smash 4 being effectively live makes things exciting too, having real feedback into making the game as good as it can be. Without that feedback there wouldn't have been changes like the addition of more shield stun to make the action and punish game more deep and rewarding. I think there's a lot of depth to be uncovered in the game and tricks for more or less every character to be uncovered. When I see players like Abadango and John Numbers and their crazy, unexpected uses of characters like Pac Man + Wii Fit Trainer in ways pretty much noone expected (even me, having hyped WFT to death forever) it shows there's so much to be explored and the game just doesn't get the credit it deserves because it's not the bizarre miracle that Melee was.

    IDK I guess at the end of the day it's more worth looking at the positives of both games than really having to pit them against each other. Personally if I got into competitive Smash it'd be in 4 because there's new things to uncover in a way there just isn't for the older games.

    And most of my perspective is about competitive play / spectator play. As for single player, I'm sorry but Brawl has all the other games beat hands down. Smash with a real platformer play mode in it. Imagine that on current technology, my god.
     
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  6. Dr. Fomantis Toboggan

    Dr. Fomantis Toboggan man in the couch

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    Kids these days, not recognizing 64 smash as the greatest game of all time. 4 was a good comeback from brawl but it's still way too much of a clusterfuck anytime you have more than 2 people. Meelee too but less so. But Melee you also had those shitty moments when the stocks cover up the game and just generally bad camera views. The maps after 64 mostly suck too so the final destination feature in 4 is a godsend. Throw in bowsers cousins and greninja and you got yourself a fine game of smash. Maybe it's cuz I never owned a cube or anything after it so the nostolgia is lost on me but I think 4 might just be a better game with less useless characters that are almost exactly the same as others
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2015
  7. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    You guys are obviously missing the most crucial detail.

    Samus in SSBM: [​IMG]

    Samus (now without a suit!) in SSB4: [​IMG]

    Obviously, the accentuation of booty and boobs is the most important thing on the battlefield, so SSB4 is infinitely better (but fuck the Tournament option, I want my in-game Tournaments back).

    ./jokepost (I don't really have much experience with Melee soooo)
     
  8. Professor Oak

    Professor Oak same Forum Administrator Server Owner Social Media Rep Forum Administrator Server Owner Social Media Rep

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    Had no problem with this post until right here.
    Pit and Dark Pit are the same.
    Marth and Lucina are the same, and Roy is very similar.
    Mario and Doctor Mario are basically the same. Luigi is still similar to both.
    Link and Toon Link are the same.
    Captain Falcon and Ganondorf still only have minor differences.
    Pit and Dark Pit are almost exactly the same.
    Fox and Falco are still almost exactly the same.
    Lucario was still based off of Mewtwo, and it can be noticed at times.
    Mii Gunner and Samus share too many moves.
    Lucas and Ness are functionally similar.

    The main thing that many people dislike in the later Smash games? All these damn clones.
     
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  9. Zoroark

    Zoroark Aka Flare Forum Moderator Server Moderator Forum Moderator Server Moderator

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    I'm too lazy to write a huge post about what game I like better.
    I'll just say rip Smash 4, long life to Melee :D
     
  10. Dr. Fomantis Toboggan

    Dr. Fomantis Toboggan man in the couch

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    I don't actually own the game so i haven't actually had a chance to try all these guys, I guess it's just less annoying with so many other options so the ratio of original characters to clones is higher.
     
  11. B. Rizzo

    B. Rizzo A relic of the past, given new life.

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    I'm still pissed that Power Suit Samus is borderline unusable in Smash 4, well I won't say unusable but they still nerfed a lot of her best options for rushdown and you still need the opponent to be over 100 to get reliable kills with the Charge Shot.
     
  12. Professor Oak

    Professor Oak same Forum Administrator Server Owner Social Media Rep Forum Administrator Server Owner Social Media Rep

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    First off, RIZZO <33333333333333

    2nd, I agree. Samus was pretty cool in Melee, but was nerfed to shit in Brawl (unless you used ZSS) and wasn't improved too much in Smash 4. Needs more buffs!
     
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  13. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    I didn't even get to play Smash 4 yet, but Kirby sux so damn hard in Melee that I can't find myself enjoying that game.
    For me it's not about the game being good or bad (in fact, I never had any problem with it other than Kirby), it's just that the game loses a lot of its charm if I can't play decently well with my favorite one, so I doubt I will ever pick Melee over any other Smash game.
     
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  14. Sunny Girl

    Sunny Girl Goodbye, sweet summer days.

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    Smash 4. Melee is the game of tryhards, not worth my time.
     
  15. Epikhairz

    Epikhairz Delta Stream

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    thx for the insight

    ----

    I guess I'll say my piece on this whole topic. There are 3 points which I wish to address in this post: balance, learning curve, and movement/options

    One of the main things I heard about from pro-Sm4sh users is the topic of character balance. Yes, it's true that Melee is a lot less balanced than Smash 4, but I believe that this allows Melee to have more depth. With only ~8 tournament viable characters (some players will argue that only 4 are tournament viable, while Hax fucking $$$ says that only Fox will be viable) and only so many matchups in the game, all these matchups have been thoroughly explored. Whether it be the popular Fox vs Falco or a lesser-seen but still present Peach vs. Falcon, these matchups have been pushed very far and there are so many options that are known to everyone. It makes for both a thought-provoking playing and viewing experience to see all these options before you known to everyone and to see how individuals deal with them. Whats amazing is that even after over a decade of growth in the metagame, these matchups still have so much room to grow. For example, 20GX continues to push the Falcon metagame even today and Fox recently seen huge growth with the rise of Armada's Fox, as well as Leffen optimizing on Armada's new age Fox. In Smash 4, gimmicks are still a thing and though Smash 4 is quickly being optimized, it's still a fresh game that still has a lot to be learned about and the depth of these matchups hasn't been fully realized, and they may never be realized with the 50+ viable matchups out there to be learned about. You can't gimmick your way through competitive Melee. There are characters in Melee that are reliant on gimmicks (Pichu, Roy, low-tiers in general) but these characters are irrelevant because...well....Sheik.

    With all this growth in the metagame, obviously the learning curve is going to be very very steep, and that is another complaint about Melee I've heard.With so much depth to the game, when you see yourself improving noticeably it is really quite an incredible feeling. Less than a year ago when I started, my friend would be able to 4-stock me multiple times in the span of a single hour and now I can go even or beat him. Seeing yourself visibly improve like that and go from a zero to a competent player is very gratifying and has kept me invested into the game. Even though you will get bodied and the grind will be tough, it does get better as you improve.

    Perhaps the biggest reason why I prefer Melee to Smash 4 is the increased movement options in Melee, and the pathways that those movement options open up in a game in real time. Let's take a look at an AT I'm sure we all know: the wavedash. To the ignorant Sm4sh scrub (not representing all Sm4sh players), this might just seem like extra button inputs that only serve to make accessibility tougher, but in reality, wavedashing opens up a plethora of movement options not in Sm4sh. Wavedashing has a lot of applications, but just to show a notable example, with wavedash back, one can move backwards while facing forwards. This is something not possible in Smash 4 and allows the player to maintain offensive pressure without having to give it up by dashing/rolling back and fake out the opponent. When I play Sm4sh, I often feel stuffed and the game feels very stiff with the lack of movement options available. The fluidity of Melee is something I love very much.

    ---

    So yea imo Melee > Sm4sh. keep in mind that this long writeup is solely from a competitive standpoint. in terms of single player, i'd have to agree with xdevo and say brawl. i played the shit out of brawl when it came out.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2015
  16. Jalmont

    Jalmont nothere

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    It's not even close in terms of which is the better competitive game. smash4 is boring as fuck and nowhere near as technically demanding as melee. the fact that stalling and winning on time is even possible in smash4 makes melee the better competitive game.

    playing-wise it's still melee although i prefer brawl. they made it so that it's impossible to kill anyone and as a result, games just become grindfests of who can survive the longest. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz