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February/March ORAS UU potential suspects discussion

Discussion in 'Gen 6 UU' started by NananaBatman, Feb 1, 2016.

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  1. NananaBatman

    NananaBatman Well-Known Member

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    UU-> OU


    Alakazam
    Jirachi

    LU-> OU

    Metagross


    OU-> UU

    Manectric
    Seismitoad



    Interesting cycle, we lose Alakazam, Jirachi and Metagross, but we gain Manectric and Seismitoad. Manectric was a good, fast volt switch user back when it was UU, and Seismitoad is basically Swampert with a better ability and Knock Off. Losing Jirachi is kind of a big deal, as it was a really good mon in the tier, shame it has to go. Metagross rising is no surprise seeing as Metagrossite has been unleashed. Zam leaving is also sad, as it was 1 of the best revenge killers on offense.

    Use this thread to discuss potential suspects in the ORAS UU metagame. As usual, try to post intelligently and explain why you would think X pokemon is suspect worthy.
     
  2. Pokemonistan

    Pokemonistan Active Member

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    Blissey is just so ridiculously bulky, no common LO special attacker (super effective or not) or specs user can break through this thing. These mons are pretty much useless for the time Blissey's alive. Twave any special attacker that can potentially set up and kill it (like Porygon-Z and Lucario), wear down and render useless (if not kill) those that cannot set up, provide immense support to the team if running Wish. It walls the entire special side of the meta without having ANY problems whatsoever. That thing, paired with Alomomola and 4 random walls makes it impossible for any sane person to see the game till the end. Any player can easily abuse the AloBliss core, particularly because of Blissey. You can literally run 5 physical walls with it in a stall team without caring to add another special wall. People are running Rocks Blissey, Blissey HO, AloBliss and they're all so ridiculously easy to pull off, especially AloBliss (don't even get me started about that). There are few special attackers that can break through it but they're just not used enough, and for good reason, barring Sub CM Chandy. Do I even need to go on, I've already elaborated too much on something I shouldn't have any explaining to do about. Ban this piece of crap, I am sick and tired of facing players with 3 crappy mons, a random wall and AloBliss, it's extremely unhealthy for the tier. I mean, suspect it please!!!!
     
  3. ThatMushroom

    ThatMushroom The Spirit Molecule

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    alright i havent posted in like a year cuz i stopped playing cuz this tier was aids and batmuff was lazy, unfortunately things havent changed.
    started playin a bit and things that were cancer when i left are still as cancerous now.

    first off let me start with mega beedril. this thing essentially has no counterplay. alom, mega aggron, etc dont work. you cannot prevent bee from uturning out into something that deals with ur check. fortunately for bee users all of bees counters/checks (for the most part, barring gligar to some extent) cant stay in vs electrics. this leads to you being trapped in this braindead voltturn vortex. its not even just electrics at this point, even if you use a gligar or something they just choose what to bring in vs your gligar. it could be kyurem, p-z, whatever. the amount of pressure this puts on teambuilding is absurd. the only way to punish bee is rocky helmet so it doesnt close its eyes and press uturn with no repercussions, and the only mons that can both run helmet AND deal with bee are extremely limited and very niche. the only relatively viable one is mence. from there it drops down to stuff like ferroseed, helmet registeel, etc. i have used all of them and, while not horrible, are really hard to fit on teams and your team kinda has to be built around them, which usually ends up with you having a stall team.

    the counterargument of "rocks dood" isnt a solid one, in fact its one of the worst arguments you could bring up when discussing any mon for that matter. the reason being that you can apply that argument to almost any rocks-weak mon in the game. ho-oh drops, "rocks dood". no, its a shit argument that shouldnt be taken seriously whatsoever.
    the other argument is that its frail, which i find hilarious. since when did a mons frailty become a good argument? this was a shit argument when deo-s, crawdaunt, diggersby etc were in the tier and its a shit argument now.
    it just keeps fucking uturning, u dont have an opportunity to prey on its frailty for the most part.

    and no, i dont want victini and darm banned because they also get uturn , let me state that before some moron throws that out thinking its a good rebuttal. bee has the strongest uturn in the game barring i think banded genesect with a download boost. its not a non stab 70 base power move that does like 10% to swampert, its an adaptability boosted stab uturn from a 150 base attack mon that, on top of doing like 35 to pert gives you the choice of what to bring in to shit on his team next.
    ----

    the other mon i find seriously problematic is entei. sacred fire is a plague. literally every physical wall that isnt resttalk cune/amphy/alo gets really neutered by it. gligar, pert, fat mence, etc. that burn really fucks up everything. physical attacks doing less, your lefties getting rendered almost useless, youre going to get worn down extremely easily. this again, youll see a common theme here, puts an insane amount of pressure on teambuilding. youre limited to around 3 choices for things to deal with entei. arcanine doesnt work, it gets cleanly 2hkoed by stone edge even after intimidate. offense has no switchin (they dont have switchins for most things but even if they have somethin like mence, the burn is really brutal), balance physical walls get neutered and stall is limited to 3 choices.
    speaking of the choices, amphy and cune are almost forced to rest the first time they get burned because leaving that burn up while being your teams go-to for most physical attackers is suicide.

    again, the problem with these two is how much they suffocate the building process. i had scald in mind too but these two are worse imo.
     
  4. snaga

    snaga .

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    I feel like staraptor deserves a suspect. Its immense power and lack of solid answers makes it feel over the top for the current uu metagame
     
  5. Xdevo

    Xdevo Phrasing Super Moderator Tour Director Super Moderator Tour Director

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    I'm going to go ahead and second the suspect of Staraptor and Mega Beedrill.

    Other than the whole suicide thing, CB Raptor is incredibly hard to stop for any team style, 2HKOing common resists unless they're heavily invested in PhyDef. Unless the team is running 1 of a very, very few select Pokemon and managed to keep up SR, Staraptor is going to get at least one kill. HO can obviously revenge kill it, but HO struggles against Scarf Raptor or U-turn spamming CB Raptor. There's very little one can do in a match against raptor except play aggressively enough that it can't get in (and by aggressively I mean riskily) or just sac and revenge it. There are a few things like Mega Aero that can take 1 hit (without SR) and do outspeed (and can Pursuit trap) though it will lose to Scarf Raptor if SR is up. It's the combination of the lack of things that are faster that can switch into Raptor, and the ability to 2HKO nearly everything in the metagame that makes Raptor so potent.

    252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Bronzong: 160-189 (47.3 - 55.9%)
    252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 209-246 (69.4 - 81.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 127-150 (42.1 - 49.8%)
    252+ Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 244-288 (56.3 - 66.5%)
    252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 208-246 (58.7 - 69.4%)
    252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 169-201 (50.7 - 60.3%)
    252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Empoleon: 204-240 (54.8 - 64.5%)
    252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 235-277 (55.9 - 65.9%)
    252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 85-101 (26.6 - 31.6%)
    -1 252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 236+ Def Salamence: 205-243 (52.1 - 61.8%)
    252+ Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Steelix: 194-230 (54.8 - 64.9%)
    252+ Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 132-156 (38.3 - 45.3%)
    252+ Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Filter Mega Aggron: 145-172 (42.1 - 50%)
    252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tyrantrum: 156-185 (51.1 - 60.6%)


    I think it's fairly obviously why Mega Beedrill deserves a suspect. There are so few things that can actually handle Mega Bee, and almost all of them suffer when they get U-turned on. With Defog being so prevalent, SR is very hard to keep on the field. Without SR, there are very few ways to effectively stop Mega Bee. Pursuit Aero (tho god help you if you can't Mega Aero in time), Rocky Helmet, and loads of priority are pretty much the only way to not lose to Mega Bee, and most of them are weak to the remainder of a Volt Turn team. Mega Bee is both absurdly powerful and cancerous to the metagame. If Blissey was suspected for being meta cancer I don't see why Beedrill can't be.
     
  6. E.T.

    E.T. SSSSSSSSSSSSS! Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader

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    I would also be in favor of seeing a Staraptor suspect. As Xdevo pointed out in his post, CB Staraptor hits ridiculously hard and is rather difficult to counter defensively. It also has the scarf set which can make it a threat against offense as well while creating a degree of uncertainty as to what Staraptor you're dealing with. I'm not entirely sure that it is broken because the amount of recoil plus a weakness to SR can cause it to wear down rather quickly, but I think it is at least worthy of a suspect.

    Beedrill on the other hand, I'm not sure about. I haven't seen it used all that frequently recently, and when I do see it, it usually isn't too difficult to deal with. As opposed to Staraptor, Beedrill is pretty predictable and it usually requires a Protect turn to mega evolve. It is also weak to SR, and its frail defense makes it more susceptible to priority, so it can be worn down pretty quickly IF you can keep SR up. Being able to hit hard with U-Turn to switch to a teammate can make it a pain to deal with if you can't keep SR up though. Beedrill may also be suspect worthy, but I think Staraptor is a more pressing issue.
     
  7. Draciel

    Draciel ALLEZ! ALLEZ! ALLEZ!

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    I've already voiced my concerns over Staraptor in the tier, so I'd happy to see a suspect soon.

    Regarding Mega Bee, I'm gonna promote what E.T. said earlier: it might look too powerful for the tier but its not that hard to deal with on practice. It's weak to hazards limiting the number of times it can switch-in when SR is up, it needs to waste a turn to Protect because it's base form has garbage speed, and it has piss-poor defense which means it loses to most of the priority users in the tier quite easily (Entei, Lucario, even Mega Aboma comes close to KOing it after SR damage). Mega Aero being the most common mega evo in UU doesn't help it's cause either: Pursuit Mega Aero is Bee's bane. Even though Bee hits really hard with it's dual STABs (STAB U-Turn is deadly) and punishes passive teams, I think it's fine in the tier as it is.
     
  8. Funbot28

    Funbot28 Active Member

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    Ya a Staraptor suspect is pretty much warranted at this point since it practically 2HKOes the entire tier with the Choice Band and lacks actual switchins (Rock and Steel types) due to Close Clombat. Really nothing else to say it overwhelms the tier and should be suspected.
     
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