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Pyramid Viability Rankings

Discussion in 'Safari' started by Whereabouts Unknown, Feb 20, 2016.

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  1. Whereabouts Unknown

    Whereabouts Unknown Absolutely Stunning

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    Hello Safari, and welcome to the first Pyramid Viability Rankings!

    "What is the point of Viability Ranking?"
    To decide which groups of Pokémon you can use to make you most justified in raging when you lose to RNG.
    "How do I post here?"
    You can contribute by suggesting changes in ranks for various Pokémon. Be sure to back this up with evidence, such as: "One time Kakuna found 100 candy dust in an Empty room, so it should be S tier."
    "That sounds complicated. How else can I help?"
    Just use this thread to talk about Pyramid in general.

    Ranking Council:
    i pmed some ppl on the server

    S Rank:
    Reserved for Pokemon who are extremely helpful and impact the metagame in a major way. These Pokemon can either fulfill a variety of roles or are superlative in performing one task on a team.

    Mega Altaria[​IMG] Swampert [​IMG] Blaziken [​IMG]

    A Rank:
    Pokemon generally perform very well in the tier, but have some minor flaws that prevent them from fulfilling their roles consistently. Although helpful, they usually require a bit more team support than S-Rank Mons.

    A+
    Aegislash[​IMG] Aurorus [​IMG] Venusaur [​IMG] Zapdos [​IMG]

    A
    Drifblim [​IMG] Greninja [​IMG] Keldeo [​IMG] Hydreigon [​IMG] Scizor [​IMG] Togekiss [​IMG] Thundurus [​IMG]

    A-
    Articuno [​IMG] Dragonite [​IMG] Gourgeist [​IMG] Froslass [​IMG] Poliwrath [​IMG] Shiftry [​IMG] Skarmory[​IMG] Empoleon [​IMG] Klefki [​IMG]

    B Rank:
    Pokemon usually have some sort of major flaw that prevents them from being a more common presence in the Pyramid. However, they still are able to perform their roles very well with proper team support.

    B+
    Bisharp [​IMG]Charizard [​IMG] Chesnaught [​IMG] Masquerain [​IMG] Moltres [​IMG] Noivern [​IMG] Salamence [​IMG] Smeargle [​IMG] Torterra [​IMG]Virizion [​IMG] Weavile [​IMG]

    B
    Chandelure [​IMG] Cobalion [​IMG]Emolga [​IMG] Lanturn [​IMG] Magnezone [​IMG] Garchomp [​IMG] Raikou [​IMG] Rotom [​IMG]

    B-
    Archeops [​IMG] Azumarill [​IMG] Galvantula [​IMG] Kingdra [​IMG] Lucario [​IMG] Steelix [​IMG] Talonflame [​IMG]

    C Rank:
    Pokemon have notable niches in the metagame, but usually require significant support. These Pokemon face competition for their roles from the higher ranked Pokemon, but can find still find use.

    Abomasnow [​IMG] Xatu [​IMG]Ferrothorn [​IMG] Gardevoir [​IMG] Gliscor [​IMG] Gyarados [​IMG] Tyranitar [​IMG]


    Blacklist: A special place for the Pokémon which while seeming viable, don't actually have a practical use due to inferiority complexes or just being bad.
    • Infernape [​IMG]
    inb4 sued for plagiarism
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2018
  2. Yttrium

    Yttrium Well-Known Member Developer Developer

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    Mega Altaria is too big o.O
    Also, why is Infernape so bad?
     
  3. Whereabouts Unknown

    Whereabouts Unknown Absolutely Stunning

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    What device are you on? I got Mega Altaria from a different site, but it appears the same size 32x32 for me.

    For Infernape, Blaziken is just superior because it can do hazards. Blaziken is in S tier due to its vast versatility, with two 4x effective hits (Ice and Steel) for Statues, excellent synergy with other top tier mons who need Steel and Dark types removed (as in Hydreagisken) for both Hordes and Mystery Mons, and an impressive repertoire of 5 Hazard moves. Although Infernape can do most of these roles, Blaziken can clear Plants, Flamethrowers, Boulders, Ice Pillars, and Darkness, while Infernape can only clear Flamethrowers and Ice Pillars. If Blaziken didn't exist Infernape could be A or A-, but it's too outclassed to be viable if you have the choice. I /guess/ you could justify running Infernape if you already have the other 3 Hazards covered, but the extra 4 BST isn't worth the effort.
     
  4. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    Add placings for these, in their Mega forms they become far more viable in Pyramid than their original form.

    Mega Gyarados (much stronger Greninja, less hazard moves)
    Mega Ampharos (3fluffy5me)
    Mega Sableye
     
  5. Fuzzysqurl

    Fuzzysqurl baa baa mareep I do what I want Server Owner Developer I do what I want Server Owner Developer

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    TIL: People still don't use our image database.
     
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  6. xburnout

    xburnout Its not me, its my sister please dont ask

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    I saw Gourgeist listing B on this list

    IMO its a pokemon that deserves to be in the higher tier pokemons. The ghost type works really well with random attacks and grass is a good fill since the metagame lacks some good grasstypes. Right now they have overlaps with other S rank typings, (fighting and ground which are covered by blaziken and swampert) Ghost does also overlap, but if you are not using Aegislash, Gourgeist can give you some good coverage over that and bring a good grass to the table
     
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  7. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    Two words: Fucking Disable.
     
  8. Whereabouts Unknown

    Whereabouts Unknown Absolutely Stunning

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    Where should these rank?

    Afaict Mega Gyarados is only missing Echoed Voice compared with Greninja. The BST difference is significant, but this doesn't matter during Statues and Mystery Mons, which is when I think you'd use a Dark/Water most. I could see justifying A- for Mega Gyara though, 1 HM for 110 BST is about even.

    Mega Ampharos definitely gets a spot for being a good Electric (there are so few). Dragon is a pretty bad type vs Statues, and it only gets 1 HM, but it will be useful vs Mystery Mons and Hordes. It deserves a spot above Raikou, but it's not exceptional in anything. B+ maybe?

    Mega Sableye seems outclassed by Spiritomb by 5 BST. Neither of them get any HMs, but two 4x hits (Psychic/Ghost) can't be overlooked.

    I'll also add Dedenne to B+. Fairies and Electrics are both pretty scarce, and it can add a lot of coverage to Dark/Water/Flying Mystery Mons.

    Gourgeist does stand out as a decent Grass in a meta where Grass is pretty bad. The reason I didn't list it higher is that it's outclassed in almost every aspect, and only useful as a very specific role-player. For HMs, it gets only Disable, and while Fences are probably the hardest to clear, Chesnaught can also clear them with Mud Shot. I disagree that Gourgeist is good for Defense Rooms: it gets 6 resistances and 5 weaknesses. This is rather mediocre, and as far as Ghosts in that tier, Rotom gets 7 resistances and 3 weaknesses, and in Grasses, Ferrothorn has 9 - 2. Gourgeist is probably best with Statues and Mystery Mons, but Shiftry has slightly better coverage. Overall Gourgeist does have a niche though, so I'll consider bumping it up to B+.
     
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  9. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    Well, first off, I'd bump Greninja up to A+. It's got a shitload of hazard moves and as you said, Water/Dark is fantastic for hiddens/statues. As Mega Gyara's about even, I'd put it in A+ as well, very top notch considering the parallels. (why doesn't BST matter?)

    B+ sounds fine for Mega Amphy, and by extension Dedenne. Rather rare typing, but it's helpful for when the situation arises.

    As for Sableye, you're right.

    I'd add these few as well in some capacity, after this I'll leave ya alone aha.

    Mega Charizard X
    Mega Pinsir
    Mega Sceptile
    (Mega) Metagross
     
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  10. Whereabouts Unknown

    Whereabouts Unknown Absolutely Stunning

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    I don't understand the hype over Greninja. It gets 3 hazard moves, which isn't bad, but it's certainly not top tier because of that. Water/Dark I wouldn't say is fantastic for statues. It has 5 SE and 6 NVE and none of those are 4x effective. I can only think of a few Mystery Mons that are weak to Water/Dark also, and those often have better options to hit them with. Overall I don't see a reason to put it in A+ when it's at best above average at a few tasks.

    Edit: It gets 4 HMs, oops. Maybe A.

    Have you ever used any of these? I'm sure these have niches, but it's hard to go on just theory for unique pairings like Charizard X (same reason I don't have Dialga in S). Is there anything that distinguishes Mega Pinsir from other Bug/Flying?
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2016
  11. xburnout

    xburnout Its not me, its my sister please dont ask

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    Bumping this for the re-entry of Pyramid
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2016
  12. Zoroark

    Zoroark Rakugaki Forum Moderator Server Moderator Forum Moderator Server Moderator

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    Slaking works pretty well in inverted challenges so it should be placed here aswell, dunno what rank tho lol.
     
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  13. Yttrium

    Yttrium Well-Known Member Developer Developer

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    Do you have prototypical sets of Pokemon you would recommend people to bring?
     
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  14. fitzy

    fitzy Heart of the cards Forum Moderator Forum Moderator

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    From my pastebin quick guide. I'm sure this team can be improved but it is a good starting point for people new to pyramid. If you don't have articuno then replace it with another flying type.

    Articuno Torterra Aegislash
    Klefki Swampert Hydreigon
    Blaziken Aegislash Togekiss

    Stuff:

    Floor 3 or higher use steels for hiddens
    Highest hp does loot rooms - use a pokemon that doesn't share types with the show pokemon
    Hydreigon + Aegislash is ideal for hordes. If either is available then bring it.
    Wait a turn to use second clue unless very vague clues. Often times it can be plugged into veekun after the first 3 hints.
    Bring steels for defence rounds.


    Plants: Razor Wind, Slash
    Water: Powder Snow, Surf
    Boulder: Superpower, Telekinesis
    Toxic: Defog, Mist
    Pit: Fly, Vine Whip
    Ice: Heat Wave, Chip Away
    Flame: Hydro Pump, Vacuum Wave
    Electric: Disable, Mud Sport
    Dark: Flash Cannon, Echoed Voice
     
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  15. beforedawn

    beforedawn Active Member

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    This thread has been dead for a month now, so I dunno how ok it is for me to bump this, but it's still relevant, so...

    I got to 5060 points and 7-4 with the following team:
    -Swampert, Blaziken, Aegislash
    -Klefki, Articuno, Chesnaught
    -Aegislash, Hydreigon, Torterra

    I actually disagree with this set up, because Team 1 is helpless against attacking Water opponents, and Team 2 is helpless combating Fire.

    Also, in old Pyramid, I've heard that Aegi-Hydrei-Blazi was universally one of the best, if not THE best to take out hordes. But I don't know how much of that is still true nowadays. Whenever I try that combination out, it seems to get perfect clearance a lot less. That's not even considering the type bans hordes sometimes put.
     
  16. beforedawn

    beforedawn Active Member

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    (04:24:33) fitzy: plants - poison powder
    (04:24:33) fitzy: water - misty terrain?
    (04:24:33) fitzy: boulder - Drill run
    (04:24:33) fitzy: toxic - twister
    (04:24:33) fitzy: pit - string shot
    (04:24:33) fitzy: ice - scald
    (04:24:33) fitzy: flame - gust
    (04:24:33) fitzy: electric - discharge
    (04:24:33) fitzy: dark - shadow sneak
     
  17. Whereabouts Unknown

    Whereabouts Unknown Absolutely Stunning

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    Updated the tier list to reflect updates. Venusaur wasn't even ranked before lol.

    Posting a bit of reasoning for the more important changes.

    Mega Altaria A+ -> S
    - Irreplaceably strong in hidden and defense rooms. Also pretty good in hordes and hazard rooms.

    Hydreigon A+ -> A
    Dragon not as dominant anymore in horde rooms, and horde rooms are really the only thing Hydreigon is exceptionally good at. 4x Fairy weakness makes it risky to use in hidden rooms. In defensive rooms, it has to deal with a lot of random Bug and Fighting moves (lots of stuff gets random Fury Cutter or Brick Break). And it has ZERO 4x attack types, meaning it's actually pretty bad for statue attacking.

    Blaziken S -> A+
    Okay, Blaziken is clearly one of the best mons. It get 2 4x attack types for statues/hiddens (Ice and Steel) and is even surprisingly good in Defensive rooms. Not to mention a plethora of hazard rooms. I just don't think it has the same absurd usefulness of Swampert and Mega Alt. I think Swamp and Alt should be on every team is possible, whereas Blaziken is, while by all means useful, not irreplaceable.

    Aurorus A -> A+
    Aurorus is about as good as Blaziken, maybe a little less. It gets a 4x attack type, and is insanely good at smashing statues. In hidden rooms, defense is a bit of an issue, with lots of Steels and Fighting types to look out for, but if you read a Flying type it will die. Dragon is also very common. But even better is Aurorus' hazard move pool, which has a unique combination of Discharge and Powder Snow. These HMs are pretty uncommon (see: viable Elecs and Ice) so they don't overlap much. Aurorus is also a champ at Inverted battles.

    Aegislash S -> A+
    Aegislash is a one trick pony. It has awful HMs. It has beyond horrific offensive potential, especially on statues. In defensive rooms, it isn't even the best option imo (Skarmory is better), but it sees a lot of use anyway. I would drop Aegislash to A but people would freak out too much. The one thing it is really good at is turtling in Hidden / Strong rooms. Unless you can't read a Primal Groudon or Mega Camerupt you're pretty much safe from disaster, while resisting all the Psychics/Flyings/Dragons/Fightings in the legendary pool.

    Scizor B -> A
    Great HMs, it's useful to be able to hit Plants twice. Only 1 weakness, which means it's great to use in the endgame where at 2x hit will kill you anyway (because who cares if it's a 4x hit at that point). Also pretty good in Hidden / Strong room.

    Venusaur ??? -> A
    Amazing HM pool. It can clear 2 Pits without even using up your slot for Fly. Poison Powder and Grassy Terrain are also fantastic, because they're so freaking rare they never overlap. I could buy an argument for A+. Not to mention being able to hit Fairies in a Horde where Steel is nerfed is very useful.

    ---

    I am also wondering where to rank the Nidos. They seem like they should be B+/A- with the ability to smash open Boulders, but they don't have much else going for them.
     
  18. La.Neptune

    La.Neptune Active Member

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    Er some Suggestions..

    Mantine : ??? -> B-

    Learns a good amount of HM's though the typing is not excellent.Needs more Testing though.

    Skarmory : A- -> B+

    Learns a fair amount of HM's but its typing causes many problems.Get hits by neutral moves most of the time while in defense compared to Aegislash.

    Venusaur : A -> A+

    Unique combination of HM's (String Shot/Poison Powder/Grassy Terrian/Vine Whip) and does good work in Hazard Control Teams most of the time.
     
  19. Yttrium

    Yttrium Well-Known Member Developer Developer

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    Do we have a list of what moves clear what hazards?

    Also do you have a suggested team for people who never Pyramid and don't know what teams to bring?
     
  20. Whereabouts Unknown

    Whereabouts Unknown Absolutely Stunning

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    @Joeypals!! 's team should work http://pokemon-online.eu/threads/34890/#post-481743
    No megas or legends required.

    Most of my teams nowadays use Mega Alt so they aren't ideal for beginners unless you have a stash of mega stones.

    Mantine for B+. It's at least as good as Masquerain.

    Skarmory is better in defense room than Aegislash.

    Skarmory: 6 neutral, 2 weakness, 10 resist/immune
    Aegislash: 2 neutral, 4 weakness, 12 resist/immune

    While Aegislash has overall more resistances, Skarmory is less than half as likely to take a super-effective hit. Two of the weaknesses Aegislash gains, Ground and Dark, tend to be on a lot of random attackers through Mud Slap and Knock Off/Fling. Electric, Ice, and Fire tend to be on elemental attackers which are easily read (if it's elemental punches for instance you can use something like else).

    Skarmory also is part of a Skarm/Swamp/Mega Altaria horde combo which beats literally everything except pure Ghost. Only downside is Skarmory's horrible BST which makes it lose matches it should win, like Espurr and Tauros. Hydreasishpert is maybe a bit better overall (it loses to Dark and Gliscor but has higher BST overall)

    Venu should probably be A+ but I'm not sure yet.

    I should also add Drifblim (forgot about it) to A or A- I think for its hazard moves. It's decent in defense rooms as well.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2016
  21. La.Neptune

    La.Neptune Active Member

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    Plants-Razor Wind/slash/Poison Powder

    Water Stream- Powder Snow/ Surf/Grassy Terrain

    Boulder-Superpower/ Telekinesis/Drill Run

    Toxic Gas-Defog/ Mist/Twister

    Pit-Fly/Vine Whip/String Shot

    Ice Pillar- Heat Wave/Chip Away/Scald

    FlameThrower- Hydro Pump/ Vacuum Wave/Gust

    Electric Fence- Disable/ Mud Sport/Discharge

    Darkness- Flash Cannon/ Echoed Voice/Shadow Sneak
     
  22. MUMU

    MUMU DNR KILLED IT

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    I think Blaziken is safe to put back on S

    It does enough stuff to qualify as it is(For one Plant and Flame being hardest hazards to deal with reliably), but it's overall p good multi-purpose anyway , and steel statues are threatening to the point where they alone would make it S even if it didn't have so many others roles and/or Mega Access.

    Sableye All To Blacklist since Spiritomb has higher bst than even mega Sableye and has same HMs I think (Shadow Sneak and Telekinesis)
     
  23. Whereabouts Unknown

    Whereabouts Unknown Absolutely Stunning

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    Articuno B+ -> A-
    Blaziken A+ -> S
    Greninja A- -> A
    Keldeo A- -> A
    Klefki B -> A-
    Venusaur A -> A+
    Zapdos A -> A+



    Dragonite A -> A-
    Empoleon A -> A-
    Torterra A- -> B+

    Drifblim to A
     
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