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[ORAS Ubers] Double Dragon Balance!

Discussion in 'Team Showcase' started by Mysterious M, Mar 8, 2016.

  1. Mysterious M

    Mysterious M Dream /\ Bigger

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    [​IMG]
    This time i decided to share with you a double dragon balance team, with my favorite mega in this tier, Mega Gengar. It is a team i started building along with @willdbeast in one of our Academy sessions, but i improved it a bit and it turned out to be really interesting. So no further words, lets check it out!

    Team Building Process:
    [​IMG]
    Started building around Ho Oh, one of the strongest Pokemon in the tier, with choice band.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Added Arceus-Dragon, because of it's ability to provide defog support, while checking Mega Sala/Ray/Primal Groudon which annoy Ho oh.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Double Dragon - Double Defog. Helps against Primal Groudon, Primal Kyogre. Will analyze more.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Having two dragons opens the team to fairy types (aka Xerneas), so Primal Groudon is here to check it and at the same time stack up rocks.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Klefki is there to support with against fairy types,while cover up the sleep fodder for Darkrai.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    And the mega god is here to help matchups vs stall/balance and take care of ekiller.

    Team at a glance:


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    Team Analysis
    [​IMG]

    Ho-Oh @ Choice Band
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Sacred Fire
    - Brave Bird
    - Earthquake
    - Sleep Talk​

    Ho-Oh is the star of the team, the mon that pressures the opponent, the mon that this team is build to support. I have it max speed so it can surprise some slower mons and banded so it can hit hard. Classic set, with sleep talk to absord Darkrai's void. Pretty easy to use and very effective at the same time! Can break many walls and due to its great ability of regenerator can switch out and in and cause problems to the facing teams.

    [​IMG]

    Arceus-Dragon @ Draco Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Judgment
    - Toxic
    - Defog
    - Recover

    The Arceus-Dragon! I am trying to convince a lot of people about it, and most of them start to reconsider! It is a really cool check for Mega Salamence (Lives a +1 hit and 1hkoes with judgement), Rayquaza, it can safely switch into Ho-Oh and toxic it, while it can also check Primal Groudon. Apart from all these, it serves my team as defogger helping Ho-Oh with its job. I totally love it!


    [​IMG]

    Latias (F) @ Soul Dew
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 16 Def / 64 SDef / 176 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Psyshock
    - Recover
    - Defog

    Latias is the second defogger of the team, and the main Primal Groudon check. It can also help with Primal Kyogre or other, smaller threats. It is really bulky, and still can hit hard. Soul dew helps it deals decent amount of damage to its switch ins, and it has defensive evs enough to take hits from both physical or special mons, and survive to defog.


    [​IMG]

    Groudon @ Red Orb
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 240 HP / 32 Atk / 148 SDef / 88 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Thunder Wave
    - Stone Edge
    - Precipice Blades
    The pokemon wonder of the tier. Nearly every solid team in Oras Ubers has a Primal Groudon, and this one has it too. It's role is pretty simple. Enough hp/sp def to take two hits from +2 Xern or 3 hits from Primal Kyogre ice beam, while it has enough attack evs to do a good damage with Preciple Blades. Obviously T-wave is here to para the geoxern, because preciple blades will easily miss and you cant rely 100% on them. Stone edge for Ho-Oh/Ray etc switch ins, while Stealth Rock to add pressure to opponents team.

    [​IMG]
    Klefki (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Play Rough/Magnet Rise
    - Toxic
    - Thunder Wave
    - Flash Cannon ​
    Klefki's role is important as it is the Dark mons switch in of the team. It carries Toxic/Twave to pressure the opponent, and i have flash cannon to deal with Mega Diancie, which is a threat and i will explain later.I did not give it spikes, since i have 2 defoggers in the team, and Magnet Rise could be usefull against Diance, or Play Rough for more damage.Spikes can be also added but i dont know if they can actually help this team .

    [​IMG]

    Gengar (M) @ Gengarite
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Protect
    - Perish Song
    - Substitute
    - Destiny Bond
    Last but not least, Mega Gengar is here to pressure opponents who use stall or balance and it has a pretty simple role. Take out as many mons as it can. It's basic role is to debond against ekiller, but this set can definately trap and take out some mons that are used as support (ex. Waterceus,Clefable etc). So in a good case scenario it takes out two mons, including its main target, ekiller. This mon just parties against stall, and it needs to be evolved early in game so it can trap and destroy the team!

    Threats List:

    [​IMG]: Diancie can be a pain in the ass for the team. Klefki can take care of it with flash cannon, but it will most of the time cause problems to my team.
    [​IMG]: Offensive LO set with Heat Wave, can possibly cause some problem to this team, but it is not used that much. This is not an excuse tho, normally Arceus-Dragon can handle it.
    Those two are the biggest threats imo, if there is anything else i would gladly accept any of your thoughts!

    Importable:

    Arceus-Dragon @ Draco Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Judgment
    - Toxic
    - Defog
    - Recover

    Ho-Oh @ Choice Band
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Sacred Fire
    - Brave Bird
    - Earthquake
    - Sleep Talk

    Latias (F) @ Soul Dew
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 16 Def / 64 SDef / 176 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Psyshock
    - Recover
    - Defog

    Gengar (M) @ Gengarite
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Protect
    - Perish Song
    - Substitute
    - Destiny Bond

    Klefki (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Spikes
    - Toxic
    - Thunder Wave
    - Flash Cannon

    Groudon @ Red Orb
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 240 HP / 32 Atk / 148 SDef / 88 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Thunder Wave
    - Stone Edge
    - Precipice Blades

    Thanks for reading, i hope you enjoyed it and that you will use it! I hope people will start posting more teams to be rated, anyone feel free to pm their teams for tips/opinions. Lets make the forums alive!! Stay tuned for future RMTs!!
     
    Joyverse, eden, Joeypals!! and 5 others like this.
  2. Mysterious M

    Mysterious M Dream /\ Bigger

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    Last edited: Mar 8, 2016
  3. La.Melle2402

    La.Melle2402 I'm the bone of my sword

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    Since when is Batman an auth? lol

    Well i like the team but it is too weak to Diancie in my opinion. Also your team is pretty weak to Ferrothorn, your only check is Ho-oH but i think you know how to play around it. I think Waterceus is still better than Dragonceus for this team.
     
  4. NananaBatman

    NananaBatman Well-Known Member

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    Since when are we frens? lol
     
  5. Mysterious M

    Mysterious M Dream /\ Bigger

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    thanks for your comments , i edited the shoutouts.
     
  6. cries in vain

    cries in vain not a prayer unsung

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    it's a decent team minus the double defog redundancy. by using double defog u basically eschew ur means of checking stuff like groundceus for a redundant move.

    ok so onto the team. it's actually p decent but grass knot>defog on lati alleviates the pressure sd groundceus exerts quite a bit. it's a bit ironic that u'r actually weak to jolly band bird urself. the jolly ray weakness is even severe. both of them rly just bone ur momentum and u can't just take it out w/ gar w/o getting severely fucked up first.waterceus,like a user above mentioned,is probably the better option on this team b/c at least it secures u better vs ho oh(run 307 speed i guess).sd groundceus is rly threatening but i guess(¿) gar manages? twave sd don could be rly fucking annoying but it's annoying vs any balance so w/e .raymence builds could also be a massive cunt but o well thas why twave is the best move in the game even if u need to sack keys

    e: 2 moves keys is bad and what the actual fuck magnet rise,,,, jus run spikes or heal block if u feel cheeky
     
    Mysterious M likes this.
  7. Mysterious M

    Mysterious M Dream /\ Bigger

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    Thanks for the feedback man. Two things.. the team is not weak to either ho oh or ray, because dragonceus is there. Mega gengar takes care of any arceus form, and i need the double defog in case of one of the two defogers being unable to clear the field for ho oh. Thanks for the comments!

    e:ik klefki with two moves is pbad and i will definately change it.
     
  8. cries in vain

    cries in vain not a prayer unsung

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    dragceus is outsped and 2hkod by jolly band ray(it's main draw is outspeeding and 2hko'ing support arc and so u have 0 switch ins and it completely fucks up the momentum u gain from ur ho oh exerting pressure) and w/ a decent roll jolly ho oh does the same.gengar taking care of any arc form is kind of an overstatement
    i mean it's a backup check yh but it does not switch in on groundceus when 4/6 mons of urs get kod by a relevant mon and ur only ans to that is dbond gar,u know smths wrong
    there will be scenarios in which gar may be forced to suicide while taking down other stuff in which case it has a field day ripping apart the rest of the team
    u rly can't justify double defog on any team not even fullstall w/o wincons and shit b/c it's terribly redundant and u would be much better off running smth else and just isn't pragmatic in practice. it might seem like a great idea but heuristically speaking it's god awful

    bt yh def a cool attempt showcasing just how consistent ho oh balance is in the meta
     
    Jethalal and Edna like this.
  9. Mysterious M

    Mysterious M Dream /\ Bigger

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    Lets agree to disagree, but RMTs are to gain feedback. So thanks again, and ho oh balance is amazing for the meta
     
  10. Oh So Penspin

    Oh So Penspin Hail RNGesus, our Lord and Saviour!

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    I'm not sure about the double Defog, but if it works for you, that's great. One thing to maybe look into is if you can find room for a cleaner, as CB Ho-Oh is an amazing wallbreaker for some other mon to clean teams.

    Rest looks good!
     
    Mysterious M likes this.
  11. Konzern

    Konzern Banned

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    wouldn't ur team benefit more from 4 attack latios>latias?
     
    Mysterious M likes this.
  12. eden

    eden loveless

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    Yo Myst M! Good team but I do have some constructive criticism for you; you probably have been told this before but what does, Arc-Dragon do that Arc-Water couldn't? Just a question, the next is why the double defog? Something like HW Latias, or even 4 attacks Latios could indeed put in so much work for you, although considering that Mega Gar is alreaady there, 4 attacks Latios(which is more something to terrorize slower bulkier builds) is slightly redundant. I'll mention the obvious and say that the team, seems to have some Ho-oh issues and I do have some suggestions, one of which is possibly running fast LO Sleep Talk Ho-Oh which would also ease the Darkrai matchup a little, and I would also like to recommend using PRough(sadly this makes it harder to force spikes vs Meye teams) Klefki here, just so that Sub Geo Xern(altho its rare) can't sub up on you. Double Dance PDon on the surface of it also, looks like a terrible matchup(one of the rare mons to do that to you),as does SD EKiller to a slight extent,so what I'd actually like to suggest is possibly running 3 attacks Mega Gar? To at least be able to revenge, EKiller once some LO damage has kicked in, and so that vs stadard HO you don't have to choose whether to use status on it or on Xern late game. Mega Diancie does look irritating but that could probably be changed by going Arc Water>Arc Dragon, altho that opens you up to PDon a bit more; If I have any other suggestions I'll probably hit you up with them soon!
     
    Mysterious M likes this.
  13. Mysterious M

    Mysterious M Dream /\ Bigger

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    Thanks for the input guys!

    Indeed for this team waterceus> dragonceus, but not in general @SunnyORAS because waterceus cant really touch rest pdon, while dragonceus can actually do some damage. The latios with 4 attacks will also help the team get more offensive presence so yes i will def try it @Konzern . And double defog can be a bit too much as @Oh So Penspin mentioned, so yeah the changes will be a 4attack lati and a waterceus with defog and perhaps ice beam!

    Keep rating! :)
     
  14. La.Melle2402

    La.Melle2402 I'm the bone of my sword

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    What is the 4th move for latios? Isnt CM + 3 attacks more usefull? I mean with psyshock u can win most cm battles