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Daycare

Discussion in 'Theme Development' started by Pangaea, Jun 24, 2016.

  1. Pangaea

    Pangaea resto en peaco

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    [​IMG]
    Hi, welcome to a theme idea that I have been wanting to create and test for a few months or so. After Roild's Circus theme was denied, I wanted to see if I could execute a similar idea, only in a much easier and more concise way. This theme, like Circus, has randomly spawning Mafia roles - so, for example, the inspector could be village in one game, but in another it could be sided with the Mafia.

    In order to make things /less/ chaotic, I have included methods and forms of social deduction that can lead to finding the mafia easier. Some examples include a role that is always Village sided, a role that is always Mafia sided, two roles that know each other at the start, and a semi-reliable inspector that is always available to the Village.

    In addition, Mafia starts off unconnected. This is to prevent them from being able to steamroll right from the start. They are immune to the kills of their partners, however, so this can be used to find each other.

    I limited the theme to 18 players as games could become too chaotic with anything more than that (similar to CG and DNR). Spawn is randomized to give a fresh and new experience every game.

    All Mafia roles share a kill with other Mafia roles. Some Village roles lose some of their actions upon being sided with the Mafia. Now, let's get to the roles.

    Roles
    Pichu - always revealed at start of game, reveals its killers and first person to vote for it, can't be protected
    Togepi - Always good but has a +999 voteshield, can /hello someone (a dummy action), can /detox once per game
    Happiny - Can protect someone (gains a kill if sided with Mafia)
    Wynaut - If inspected, shows as able to kill (gains a kill if sided with Mafia)
    Riolu - Can kill someone at night (gains nothing if sided with Mafia)
    Mantyke - Can watch someone (gains kill if sided with Mafia, loses watch)
    Budew - Poisons anyone who visits it; 4 count, can detox. (gains poison if sided with Mafia, is forced to poison; 2 count, loses detox)
    Elekid - Always knows Magby (gains kill if sided with Mafia)
    Magby - Always knows Elekid (gains kill if sided with Mafia)
    Azurill - Can reveal itself to someone at night (gains kill if sided with Mafia)
    Tyrogue - Can fake reveal itself to someone at night as Azurill, reveals as Azurill if killed, always Mafia (no kill)
    Munchlax - Vote is -3, can daykill once per game (revealed) (gains kill if sided with Mafia, loses daykill)
    Bonsly - Vote is +3, can daykill once per game (revealed) (gains kill if sided with Mafia, loses daykill)
    Mime Jr. - Can check to see if someone can kill or not (gains kill if sided with Mafia)
    Smoochum - Can check to see if someone can kill or not (gains kill if sided with Mafia)
    Igglybuff - Can publicly distract someone at night (Talkative Player), will be distracted if Togepi says /hello to it (gains kill if sided with Mafia)
    Cleffa - Can expose someone during the day (gains kill if sided with Mafia, can only fake-expose)


    While some of these roles might be confusing, I wanted to design the theme similar to CG where every role interacts with other roles in a different way. Similarly here, I wanted to create cohesive roles that make it easier for the Village to snuff out the Mafia.

    Here are some mechanic and gameplay notes to try and highlight those interactions, as well as sorta mini-guide of finding out who is sided with what:

    Quick Notes:
    Elekid and Magby will never be Mafia together. They will either both be on village or one of them will be Mafia while the other is Village.

    Mime Jr. and Smoochum will spawn together. In this case, one will be Mafia while one will be Village (so in other words, they are never on the same team).

    Munchlax and Bonsly, similarly to Mime Jr. and Smoochum, will never be on the same team, but they may spawn together. If that ever happens, one will be Mafia while the other will be Village.

    Cleffa, Igglybuff, and Happiny have relatively lower chances of being sided with the Mafia (but only slightly lower).

    ~~~
    Mini Guide and explanation of how the roles interact:
    ~~~

    Pichu is the center role for the Village. Because Pichu is always revealed at the start, everyone should probably claim their role to Pichu (yes, even Mafia). Pichu should always connect as many people as possible.

    Togepi can only claim to Pichu, as one vote towards it will have it voted off. Togepi is a very important role. While /hello seems like it doesn't do anything, it allows the village to investigate roles like Budew, Igglybuff, and Mantyke. For example, using /hello on Budew will get Togepi poisoned; if Budew is village, it will be able to /detox Togepi, which can potentially clean Budew if it is Village. Togepi can also /hello Igglybuff if it is to not be trusted. If Mantyke watches a role that Togepi uses /hello on, it will see who it used /hello on; therefore, Pichu can test Mantyke by telling Togepi who to /hello and then asking Mantyke to /watch that person. If Mantyke gives correct results, it is possible that it can be trusted (remember that Mantyke cannot watch if it is Mafia).

    Elekid and Magby provide interesting cohesion. Right away they should both PM Pichu who the other is. In the case where one is revealed to be Mafia, then the other will be confirmed as Village. While they cannot do anything on their own, they can provide valuable information to Pichu as to who is sided with who.

    Tyrogue is always Mafia, therefore it is able to reveal itself as Azurill to someone. Right off the bat, two players will PM Pichu as Azurill - this already gives Village a lead as to who could be bad. Tyrogue cannot kill but it can act as an excellent mole (assuming it can gain the trust of Pichu). If killed off it will reveal as Azurill, meaning Pichu will still be unable to trust everyone. Tyrogue and Azurill will never be on the same team (so if Azurill is Mafia, Tyrogue doesn't spawn, and if Tyrogue and Azurill spawn together then Azurill will always be Village).

    Munchlax and Bonsly counteract each other as roles. They are included to ensure that Village has a way of disposing of a single Mafia, but again because there is two of them they cannot always be trusted.

    Mime Jr. and Smoochum are two roles that ensure that Village will always have a way of gaining information. While they are not completely reliable, they are still helpful ways of gaining more info. If one of them spawns as Mafia, they could potentially help their team find each other.

    ~~~
    That's pretty much it. If I do decide to continue expanding with this theme, spawn will probably be the end of me, but I think I could manage. Please let me know what you think so far of this theme - I made these roles in a matter of ten minutes, so if some things look really unbalanced or weak, let me know. If people think I shouldn't go on with this, I'll be fine with that, too, as I did just think of this today. I know it's still a really complicated concept (despite my attempts to simplify it down), but this was one of my attempts at it. Thanks for reading!​
     
  2. EvilDingoRobot

    EvilDingoRobot HELLOOOOOOOO

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    I love the way this theme has roles that can either be mafia or village, just like the way circus worked. It will take several, even many times for people to get used to this theme though, it's very unorthodox. Over time it should all work out just like new CG did.

    Also, what side will Pichu fall onto? Massclaiming to Pichu can result in betrayal and Pichu favoring a side will most likely decide the game. Togepi seems very weak, as there's not much poison in this theme. All the roles seem to need lots of teamwork, even overwhelming to cause some success. Also, why don't all the roles just reveal their counterparts if they are mafia? Mime Jr. and Smoochum seem pretty fine as of right now, but mafia can still steamroll with the right pokemon.


    Rip android users
     
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  3. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby Forum Moderator Channel Leader Developer Forum Moderator Channel Leader Developer

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    Since you are using only baby Pokémon in this theme, you could name it Daycare (Safari players love this name :D ).

    How are you planning to name the sides? Good names for the teams could make the format a lot less confusing and make it easier to explain why the same role can be Mafia or Village.

    Mafia roles are unconnected, but share a kill and cannot kill each other? This is always troublesome to implement, because the possible scenarios for this are 1) Mafia cannot target each other ("You cannot kill your teammate" message), which means they could try to kill all players and find their teammates N1 or 2) Mafia can target each other, but evade their kills, which usually is better, but with shared kills I could use /kill on someone, but soon after a teammate could override my kill (which I could not even notice, depending if there's team broadcast), which tends to make things quite confusing.
     
  4. Pangaea

    Pangaea resto en peaco

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    Pichu is always sided with the village.

    Togepi's one time detox is just meant for it to heal itself if it uses /hello on Budew or if Pichu gets poisoned. Also, in what regards is Togepi weak? It's designed as an always good role that cannot claim because if it gets voted it dies. The main goal is for Togepi to work with Pichu and use /hello to find roles like Budew, Igglybuff, and Mantyke and to potentially see who is lying.

    What do you mean reveal their counterparts? The only two roles that get start-up reveal on each other are Magby and Elekid.

    Yeah that's good, the name "Daycare" doesn't really make me think of Pokemon, but it's better than "PokeBrawl".

    Not sure what you mean here. I was just going to name one "Good" and the other "Bad". Would that not work?

    Okay, I see the issue here. I think I'll just go with option 1 but give a Pokemon the chance to hax kills (maybe Togepi since it works directly with Pichu) so that way they can't just spam their kills.
     
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  5. EvilDingoRobot

    EvilDingoRobot HELLOOOOOOOO

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    Ok, so if all the mafia pms Pichu to connect, I don't see why Pichu would agree to this. Pichu seems a lot like Pen from Weapons, where mafia can choose to kill Pichu if becomes a threat in exchange for having one of them revealed which doesn't seem too bad seeing a lot of mafia will get kills.

    In ways, Togepi seems like a weaker inspector that has a voice (Pichu). Weaker as in, someone rands Togepi? Goodbye Togepi. I do see now that Togepi can work together with other confirmed village roles.

    Magby and Elekid should just reveal each other then if they find out that they are on opposite sides, yes?
     
  6. Pangaea

    Pangaea resto en peaco

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    I still am confused by what you mean by "I don't see why Pichu would agree to this." Agree to what? Also, I agree with that last point, I might just make Pichu immune to kills in general but its vote is 0.

    The only person that should be randing is Pichu since it should have all of the information. Again, I do see what you mean. I might change the voteshield to +10 instead so that way there is still a chance for Togepi to be saved, but not so much in smaller games.

    Magby and Elekid should always PM Pichu and tell them who the other one is right at the start of the game. If one of them is revealed to be Mafia, then the other one will be guaranteed Village (which will allow for connections to happen more easily).
     
  7. EvilDingoRobot

    EvilDingoRobot HELLOOOOOOOO

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    Why would Pichu connect mafia roles if Pichu is sided with village? Seems to make more sense if Pichu connected all village roles while people like Togepi scan to make sure they aren't lying.


    If some random mafia votes Togepi, there would be no way of saving Togepi, so Pichu doesn't have to be the only one to rand.


    Magby and Elekid situation clarified, thanks.
     
  8. Fate Testarossa

    Fate Testarossa Unbreakable Bond

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    Pichu won't know who is mafia (assuming someone doesn't claim Tyrogue to them in PM) and who is village, so it is bound and probably more ideal for it to simply connect everyone (I guess). In addition, refusal to PM Pichu your role may be looked down upon or seen as scummy.

    This really doesn't count as feedback, but I am glad to see some kind of resurgence of a theme similar to Circus. I'm definitely thrilled to see how some of these pairs turn out. That being said, I have a few questions, some of which are probably dumb and have obvious answers, but oh well.

    Is it safe to assume that Mime Jr. and Smoochum will be inspected as able to kill?
    Is it safe to assume that mafia teammates will also evade each other's daykills or poison?

    I can already think of a few ideas as to how this theme can be played.

    I was supposed to have more questions and other stuff to say, but I managed to blank while typing this. Nice.
     
  9. Pangaea

    Pangaea resto en peaco

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    Technically yes, but if Smoochum (mafia) inspects Mime Jr. (village) it would show as not able to kill.

    Mafia do not have any daykillers. Mafia will evade Budew's poisons if they are on the same team.
     
  10. Fate Testarossa

    Fate Testarossa Unbreakable Bond

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    Whoops, I didn't properly read Munchlax and Bonsly's info.
     
  11. Pangaea

    Pangaea resto en peaco

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    How should I go about with the Info messages? Should I do what circus did and just have, for example, "Can protect one person per night." and not include what the role is sided with? Or should I make two infos for each role - one for the good version and one for the bad version?

    The reason I'm thinking of making two infos is because some roles are very different when they are Village or Mafia (ex. Budew).
     
  12. Fate Testarossa

    Fate Testarossa Unbreakable Bond

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    Definitely go with the two infos for each role so people will be aware of and understand the difference(s) between village and mafia versions of a role.
     
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  13. Pangaea

    Pangaea resto en peaco

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    I've made a few changes that I will state later, but something I want to bring up is Elekid and Magby revealing the other when they die.

    This creates an interesting dynamic between the two. If one of them dies as mafia, then the one that is revealed is guaranteed to be village. In addition, it discourages the mafia one from killing the village one right away on night 1 in fear of being revealed.

    I dunno, I may or may not add it, what do you think?
     
  14. Fate Testarossa

    Fate Testarossa Unbreakable Bond

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    Assuming Pichu is connecting everyone (or close to it), I'd like to think the mafia role would be discouraged from killing the villager role to begin with. Regardless, I think this takes a little bit of pressure or responsibility off Pichu for singling out the mafia, which I prefer.
     
  15. Pangaea

    Pangaea resto en peaco

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    Oh, I forgot to include a pretty big change to Pichu.

    Instead of Pichu just being revealed to everyone, it now is only revealed to Togepi (they get startup reveal on each other). Since they are both always village it allows them to work together and they can organize a bit better. Pichu, at the start, is immune to all kills and halves the votes that a person receives (Togepi's voteshield was lowered to +6 now). Pichu can reveal itself during the day at any point in the game if it feels that it wants to play a 'follow the leader' type game, but when it does this, its vote turns into zero and it no longer becomes immune to kills - instead, it bombs its attackers and has its vote turned to 0 (loses vote multiplier), and reveals the first person to vote for it if lynched.

    This will /possibly/ remove aspects of the theme revolving around a single role and now gives Pichu a few things to think about - should it reveal itself but become vulnerable to kills and the be unable to semi-protect Togepi during the vote phase, but at the same time help connect the village, or should it just stay in the shadows, find people that it can trust and gain a little bit of info from Togepi's /hello?

    Togepi's /hello allows it to find three roles: Riolu, Budew, and Igglybuff. /hello is revenged by Riolu (ONLY by Mafia Riolu, though), Budew poisons anyone who visits it (both none maf and village) and Igglybuff is distracted by /hello. This means that even if Pichu decides not to reveal itself, it can still gain some information at night from Togepi.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2016