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Suspect Discussion - Tyrantrum [Banned]

Discussion in 'Gen 6 LU' started by Aurist, Jul 7, 2016.

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  1. Aurist

    Aurist I do not jump for joy. I frolic in doubt.

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    Discuss the possibility of banning Tyrantrum from the ORAS LU metagame.

    Make sure you post intelligently based off of experience in the tier. Posts based off theorymon risk forum infractions.

    Attempt to find the checks and counters (or lack thereof) for Tyrantrum as well as its impact and power in the metagame. Do not simply say "it's broken" or "it's not broken". Back up your arguments on why you think it should be banned or not.

    Most importantly, elaborate on your points and try to think of counter arguments as you're posting. No one or two sentence posts will be allowed, and this will be strictly enforced.

    If a consensus is reached, the result will likely be implemented in the metagame.
     
    Joyverse likes this.
  2. Funbot28

    Funbot28 Active Member

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    Tyrantrum is an increibly powerful wall breaker that decimates any type of switchins practically. It's two main sets (Scarf and Band) allow it to break through Offense and Balance respectively and can open up so many holes in ur opponents team which can allow other sweepers to clean up easily afterwards. Steels types like Registeel and a Mega Steelix can walk it to an extent, but Superpower usually nets a 3HKO or sometimes 2HKO on them with hazards up. Quagsire is also another check to it, but its Dragon STABs with a Choice Bamd can 2HKO it alswell.

    So ya Ban it immediately lol.
     
  3. Celestial Phantom

    Celestial Phantom YAHA

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    This is probably going to be pretty straight forward and simple, but for those who end up reading this, will need at least some spotlight on what it does.

    - Terrifying Choice Scarf and Choice Banded sets. Scarf puts a lot of pressure on the many typical offensive Pokemon in the tier which are pretty much staples to succeed. Band is great to bait out Defensive threats, especially because with the right pick of Head Smash or Outrage it can take out a threat that normally is walled by the Scarf set. I.E. checks that limit Head Smash like Cheasnaught, Donphan, and Hitmontop (all using their physical defensive sets) can be 2HKO by banded Outrage, and things like Granbull, Klefki, which can take advantage of Outrage spam can be done in by Head Smash (both are 2HKOs). Not to mention pretty much any bulky Pokemon that doesn't resist Head Smash is at on the wire for being 2HKO'd.

    - Additional options in Rock Polish or a Double Dance base in Dragon Dance/Hone Claws to give balanced difficulties, where you kind of have to at least wear some of the checks down over time, or lure them out to weaken them through status, which isn't exactly difficult considering all it's checks generally have recovery in leftovers only.

    - Unique Dragon/Rock typing with respectable 89 base HP and 119 base Defense means that it can decently tank physical hits that aren't super effective against it to set up, or continue mowing a team down with Head Smash or Outrage spam. Though weak 59 base defense means that liable to die to most special hits, however Special attackers generally have bad Defense, so they won't kill without possibly taking a huge chunk or dying themselves.

    - 71 Speed is respectable enough that all of it's sets fall somewhere in line that certain threats have to overcompensate to beat one form (i.e. somethings have to run scarf or a speed boosting nature to beat the Banded or a DD set up).

    - Players kind of have to run a double check to Head Smash/Outrage spam generally in the form of Bulky Fighting with Fairy/Bulky Steel type more or less limit its options. Otherwise, end up hoping it's the set you might have a more solid answer to (something super bulky if it's Scarf, or something fast and powerful if banded giving a higher yield to winning a 1 on 1).

    - The only real negatives it has is annoyance to status moves which on a DD set can be a good lure to annoy status users, Head Smash accuracy which it generally will want to miss more likely than not or cost you in at an important time, and that it has a fair amount of common Offensive weaknesses that can chip away at it or outright kill it, while only having a small pool of resistances that it can take advantage of (Fire, Electric, occasional Normal moves).

    Honestly it's pretty match-up dependent with the set sometimes and how skilled the user is, but even with a tight or bad match up, there's generally opportunities for the set to actively do work and eliminate what it needs to with minimal effort and only can be hampered if the team is fully against it's sets purpose (i.e. full bulky and tank mons against the scarf resulting in not enough power, or enough fast and powerful Pokemon that a Banded set likely loses all the 1 on 1's). However, I'm kind of leaning ban more so that it's just too effective and that players have to limit themselves at times to truly have a shot at beating it, which limits their options for the plethora of other threats the tier has.
     
    Aurist, Joyverse and Funbot28 like this.
  4. Joyverse

    Joyverse Back for a blast!

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    Leaning towards a potential ban of Tyrantrum


    1)121 attack supported by 71 speed is pretty great for this tier rn. Give it a band and you bust through walls, give it a scarf and you have formidable rkiller.

    2)Not just choice items. It has RP to make a solid late game sweeper and DD to otherwise bolster its stats and give both bulky and offensively oriented teams a hard time. Coupled with a Lum or LO it is pretty much very hard to handle unless you have 2-3 checks for it.

    3)However it has its weaknesses. It's bad spdef makes suspectible to a 2hko from unboosted LO Vaccuum Wave and an OHKO from +2 LO VaccuumW from Toxicroak. If you aren't running scarf/RP/DD/Haven't boosted speed any other way then a Agility AmphM is going to OHKO with Dragon Pulse. And it is still suspectible to burns (notably from Jellybro) and Ice Beams and Dazzling Gleams. That said it is also weak to two STAB prios easing revenge killing- Mach Punch from Hitmontop/Lee and Ice Shard from Mega Glalie and Sneasel.

    252 SpAtk Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP/4 SpDef Tyrantrum: 506 - 596 (165.9 - 195.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO (No need of Modest even)

    4)That said, Scarf Tyrant alone is a very dangerous force in the current metagame but that too has a very solid checks in the form of Chesnaught, and too an extent Hitmontop. I just found it a bit strange how no one forgot to mention Chesnaught lol. And then, scarf Tyrant is rkilled by scarf durant/brav/delphox (while durant OHKOs with Iron Head, Brav and Phox 2hko with superpower/grass knot respectively so Tyrant has a chance at full health)

    tl;dr Band Tyrant destroys slow paced teams with the right moves, scarf tyrant smashes and outrages and destroys offense. I could see it very well getting banned in the future but I might change my opinions if I see a stronger argument.
     
    Aurist likes this.
  5. gengar17

    gengar17 someone turn this nothing into gengar

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    i feel it's gotten to a point where tyrant's time is over in this tier, with aggron leaving and a bunch of new checks that entered the tier but dont have recovery joined just showing how powerful that monster is, since it's making people run those below average mons like hitmontop in order to be able to hard check it. Quagsire being in the tier is cool and all except the fact that banded tyrant does to fat teams what scarf does to offense, gives the opposing team little chances.
    Tyrantrum is easily slappable in any team due to how good and effective it is, if u dont miss of course.
    Even though there are several checks to it in klefki, steelix, registeel, donphan, quagsire, hitmontop and w/e, i still feel that the tier would be healthier since those "answers" to it all have several pokemons that can beat ALL of them, from dugtrio being the easy way out for the steel types, to pokemon like nidoqueen, most fat waters (outside of klefki), rotom-heat, delphox, tangrowth/rose being able to sleep powder the steel ones for free, and obviously flygon can just pivot into all of them in and out giving tyrant more opportunities to come in.
    Clearly it's not as simple as that, there are several ways to sucesfully check or even counter, by using specific cores or a combination of those mons, or things like poliwrath or w/e.
    but the fact that tyrantrum can take a free chunk out of any of those mons for free, even with the presence of alomomola that can wish pass, and the fact that scarf tyrantrum is crazy against offense, makes me lean towards a ban, but honestly with the new mons that entered i can see why tyrantrum could stay, but it leaving is just healthier for the tier overall.
     
    Aurist likes this.
  6. Aurist

    Aurist I do not jump for joy. I frolic in doubt.

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    This thread has been unanimous in support for banning Tyrantrum, and so it will be banned from the ORAS LU tier. It has always been considered a borderline pokemon that's extremely strong ever since it gained Rock Head in ORAS allowing it to freely spam Head Smashes off 121 attack with very little switch ins, with it itself having decent opportunities to come in and wreck, as well as its lack of significant weaknesses beyond "hit it first with a special attack" which isn't always that easy. Its answers are very specific and limiting to teambuilding in LU and thus we feel it better for the health of the tier if we take it out of the equation. Thanks to all for taking part.
     
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