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Rotom Totem Pole

Discussion in 'Mafia' started by Fate Testarossa, Jul 17, 2016.

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What is your favorite type of Rotom to play as?

  1. Frost

    25.0%
  2. Wash

    21.4%
  3. Mow

    25.0%
  4. Fan

    17.9%
  5. Heat

    10.7%
Moderators: heartbreaker, Water
  1. Fate Testarossa

    Fate Testarossa Unbreakable Bond

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    In an attempt to stir some kind of discussion on the mafia forums as well maybe encourage people to come back to mafia (because the activity basically dropped to zero over this past week), I've decided to post "totem pole" threads. These are basically where roles are organized from strongest to weakest (in terms of ability to win and likelihood of winning mafia games). This totem pole, as the title says, will be regarding the Rotom theme. Obviously, the order of roles themselves are based on my own opinion; hopefully the reasoning behind it is somewhat decent though. With that said, let's jump right in.





    [​IMG]
    At the top of the totem pole, we have the dreaded and ever so annoying Frost Rotom. It has the ability to convert one person to a frost, easily changing the tide of a game. Its power lies not only with strength in numbers, but the inability to crossfire (since frosts can't kill) as well as the ability to instantly find a teammate (ie the people you convert) and connect other frosts. It has an additional advantage over fans with its ability to evade one nightkill. Furthermore, its convert outspeeds the fan's standard nightkill. Despite being at the top, frost has crippling weaknesses to heat. Heat evades one convert a game while its poison instantly kills frosts. Furthermore, its distract prevents frosts from converting, as frosts don't have any kill pressure. Personally, if I am ever a frost, I tend to avoid forcing early votes, as everyone in the game is a potential eventual teammate.




    [​IMG]
    Next on the totem pole, while falling from power due to the surging popularity and power of frosts, is the still powerful Wash Rotom. Functioning as the theme's kuja with a vote of 20, the playstyle is pretty straightforward: survive and win (like any other theme in a sense). Its weakness lies in the amount of protection it has in order to survive. It's able to protect itself from kills and poison (as well as inspects) once a game starting on night 3 (assuming it converted night 1). It does evade poison once a game, but outside of this, it is vulnerable to being killed by fans or mows as well as being converted by frosts and distracted by heats. The voting phase is usually a toss up. By reading the votes, it can find potential teammates; one weakness is if it votes and lynches a fellow wash. On top of that, once a wash is revealed via its vote, it usually becomes the top priority threat and is killed the following night or day. Lastly, it has crippling weaknesses to mows as mows survive a lynch and can daykill, meaning wash has no way to protect itself against a mow. Personally, I like to save my protect until the final night (or night before that) as well as follow almost every rand to keep my vote hidden.




    [​IMG]
    In the middle of the pack, we have the Mow Rotom. It's your standard daykiller with a few abilities that make it a pretty solid counter to washes, among them being able to survive one lynch. Washes also have no protection against daykills. There are definitely a few things holding back mows. The main thing is they have absolutely no protection against nightkills, daykills (from fellow mows), poison, or conversions. As a further obstacle, fans will evade one daykill. However, there is nothing else (besides rice rotom) that has any protection against daykills, arguably giving mows the best kill pressure. As one final note, distractions also do nothing against mows.




    [​IMG]
    In the lower tiers, we have the Fan Rotom. It's a pretty standard nightkiller with the ability to kill a second person every other night (starting night 3). The second nightkill has higher priority, outspeeding heat's poison and frost's convert. In my opinion, fans have the ability to have the highest kill pressure, despite the decent amount of protection other roles may have against fans. Fans gain an advantage over mows with the ability to evade one daykill, and struggle against frosts that evade one nightkill. On top of that, frost's convert will outspeed the fan's standard nightkill. As fan, I prefer killing even with little or no information (despite the chance of crossfire). Keeping up pressure and momentum in order to overwhelm your opponents is viable and possible.




    [​IMG]
    Last, at the very bottom of the totem pole, resides the usually overlooked Heat Rotom. It has the ability to poison two targets a night (killing them the next night), as well as distract once a night. Its niche is the significant advantage it has over the "top-tier" frosts. Not only can it essentially PL stall a frost, but it can instantly kill two other frosts with its poison, and evade one convert. Crossfire is punished less as it takes two nights to die from poison; as another bonus, it can find teammates easily because it identifies distractors. However, the niche is usually all it has to offer. Every other type of rotom can kill instantly (or convert instantly) via nightkill, daykill, or voting power, making it difficult for heats to keep up. Moreover, it is practically impossible for it to beat washes without the help of other rotoms or washes crossvoting. Outside of PL stalling a fan, it more than likely loses to any rotom that isn't a frost. That being said, winning as a heat is challenging but quite rewarding, and it's the easiest role to bring down the frost empire.




    What are your thoughts and opinions? Would you keep the positions the same, or swap some around? Do you share the same ideas when playing or adopt different playstyles? What type of rotom is your favorite to play as or against? Feel free to mention the Rice and Shiny Rotoms, as I did not bring them up at all.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2016
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  2. Duncajuwon

    Duncajuwon Active Member

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    My favorite is Wash-Rotom. Why? Simple. It functions as the theme's kuja with a straightforward playstyle: survive and win. Although it needs a lot of protection to survive, it can protect itself from kills and poison. Despite being able to evade poison once a game, rotom fan and mow both threaten it.
     
  3. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby Forum Moderator Channel Leader Developer Forum Moderator Channel Leader Developer

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    Everyone says Heat is weak, but whenever lots of players are revealed they always lynch the Heat :( This is particularly weird since the form that control the votes is also the one that better resist Heats.
    And then they come with the "I don't want to get poisoned" excuse. Well, is getting poisoned worse than getting nightkilled?
    #HeatLivesMatter
     
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  4. TraceofLife

    TraceofLife Lucky Strike

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    DEATH TO THE FROST NATION

    my fav is shiny rotom but heat rotom come to close second tho
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2016
  5. Yttrium

    Yttrium Active Member Developer Developer

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    Fans are bad:
    I would consider Fan the worst, partly because of how strong Frost is. Being countered by the best role in the game is no fun, especially when that role can quickly multiply in numbers. Not only that, but Fan's kill can also be blocked by Wash's protect and Heat's distract, making it difficult to do anything. With the odds stacked against them, Fans need to be efficient and make every kill count, but coordination is difficult, and overlapping kills, which isn't a problem for Mows, may mean that they barely affect the game. The best option for Fans may actually be to ignore the chat and any information given and strictly kill randomly (but avoid killing other Fans) since many people may pile up actions on a perceived threat. On another note, Fan's special ability is evading daykills from Mows, but it's unlikely that you'll face many Mows in the endgame, so this might not be very helpful for winning. A unique problem for Fans is that greater numbers isn't always better since with more Fans there's a high chance of teamkilling. This (this as in greater numbers being detrimental) isn't an issue for the other roles since Mows get to kill after they receive their inspection results, meaning they have time to connect with other Mows and identify threats to take out. They also deal with a smaller pool of targets as players are eliminated during the night and day, which makes coordination easier. Washes get to vote with the most information and the smallest selection of people during the cycle, which may be why they're so strong despite having little kill power. Frosts don't really need much information to convert, since their target will be their teammate at the end of the night instead of being dead. Heats' slower poison may actually help them since they identify other Heats so they can potentially connect with other Heats since the other person doesn't die right away. Smaller numbers, of course, don't help Fans either since they have difficulty eliminating other roles not named Mow and they're very vulnerable.

    Heats are better than Fans (but still bad):
    But Fans aren't just worse than Heats because they're bad; Heats are also pretty good, at least, definitely better than Fans. They are unique in that they have two actions, poison and distract, and can even target two players with poison, which is actually pretty powerful. The distract is pretty strong since it gives Heats some form of survivability and a way to disrupt other roles. Resistance to Frost, the strongest role in the game, is also way more helpful in endgame situations. Since Frosts are able to multiply in numbers, Heats can benefit from Frosts converting other roles into Frosts (especially Washes) since they can easily pick them off with poison. This potential to piggy back off Frosts's success is why I see Heats have better winning potential than Fans. Of course, it is difficult to pull off and it requires several things to go right, such as surviving, but at the end of the day, facing an army of Frosts is more likely than facing an army of Mows and I think Heats are in a better position to win than Fans in the meta. It would be cool to have large Rotom games to see how they play out.

    Strategy Talk:
    Other than talking about the positions of Heat and Fan on the totem pole, strategy-wise I think the best way to play as Mow is to pinpoint specific targets to kill while the best way to play Fan is to kill completely randomly and mindlessly, ignoring information from other players. The only helpful information for Fans is who the other Fans are. Publicly revealed roles will be dealt with by other players, so it would be a waste of time for Fans to kill them when their kills are so precious anyway. It may also be beneficial for Heats and Frosts to use their actions randomly if there are multiple of them to avoid overlapping targets. This leaves Mows and Washes as the roles that absolutely need to be strategic in how they use their actions. Of course, this depends on the situation and the strategy of random targeting may be less useful as the amount of players decreases.

    Wow, that was a long post. I hope it was coherent.

    EDIT: I broke it into sections with spoiler tags to try to make it more organized with a tl;dr summary in case you don't read the whole thing.
     
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  6. Whereabouts Unknown

    Whereabouts Unknown Absolutely Stunning

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    I agree that Heats are definitely better than Fan. Just look at Fan's matchups in 1v1 scenarios.

    Vs Frost - Can't outspeed without kill2, which Frost evades anyways.
    Vs Wash - Loses if Wash has Protect. Might not even matter based on timing.
    Vs Mow - Wins
    Vs Heat - Gets PLed and poisoned to death.

    At least Heat has two winning matchups in addition to its bad ones. Heat is so bad vs Wash that it takes 3+ nights to kill them, during which time you could get voted off. And Mows have much faster damage output and can clean themselves by claiming their kills before killing a confirmed Heat or other enemy. Heat isn't hopeless vs Mow, but it's a bad day if you get stuck in a late game with them. Also considering that Fire should really be better vs Grass.

    I also agree that the prevalence of Frosts makes Fan nigh inviable while making Heat relatively useful.

    Furthermore, Mow might be better than Wash due to Frost's popularity as well. My reasoning for that is Washes are simply too slow to eliminate Frosts which can easily pick off Washes that vote together, meaning even if you lynch a Frost every day and at least one Wash gets converted, you're not getting anywhere except to extinction. Mow on the other hand can exterminate an entire side quickly if they coordinate well. This makes them a bigger threat to Frost than any other role than Heat. Also consider that Mow's only real bad matchup, Fan, is nearly useless. Its closest to a neutral matchup - Heat - is pretty bad as well. In the current meta Mows can eliminate Frosts quickly, and survive multiple lynches from Wash. In the meantime, I don't think that Heats would aim to eliminate Mow as long as there's a Wash around, and Mow won't kill Wash until all eminent threats like Fan or Frost are dead.

    My tier list is as follows:
    S tier
    Frost

    A tier
    Mow

    B tier
    Wash

    C tier
    Frost check

    D tier
    Mow Check
     
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  7. Pangaea

    Pangaea resto en peaco

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    My favorite is Wash, mainly because it's easy to play and I don't usually have to worry about getting voted out during the voting phase (which seems to be a common occurrence). Usually I just lay low and wait until the Mows are gone.
     
  8. Joyverse

    Joyverse Toki wo tomare!

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    I just play mafia, and I like targetting Meh and getting warned for that but I like Mow vry much cuz I like killing.
     
  9. Edna

    Edna Trick Or Sweets? Forum Moderator Forum Moderator

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    Frost is funniest, especially when there is someone who thinks you'll never make him your partner hue hue
     
  10. Cheezeburgar

    Cheezeburgar supreme mafia admiral

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    I've never been in a game with more than two mowtoms, that would be super fun. Washtoms just seem a little bs and ez and boring in my opinion.
    I just want to see like 6 mows bop everyone on d2 or just kill eachother off.
     
  11. HellobyexD

    HellobyexD New Member

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    Where's Rice Rotom ): It's actually viable until you get surrounded by an army of frosts. I guess it's a little more challenging especially when you have to play mindgames with everybody else.
     
  12. Ascarotte

    Ascarotte Well-Known Member Forum Moderator Channel Leader Forum Moderator Channel Leader

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    But you can't choose to be a Rice Rotom :x

    Heat Rotom is more effective in larger games, and Wash Rotom is more effective in smaller games. The downside to Heat is that it cannot immediately eliminate a threat. Larger games means more turns for poison to actually take effect. Only one person is lynched each turn, making the voting ability of Wash less powerful in larger games. Heat also benefits from Wash being weaker in larger games.

    The success of Frost Rotom as a faction largely depends on the willingness of other people to win as Frost. If people consider winning as a converted Frost as good as a loss, then Frosts would certainly be a bigger target.

    Popularity is a weapon in itself. People are unlikely to choose Heat, which makes it an even greater challenge to try to win with it. People hate poisoners. You can revenge kill or lynch a revealed poisoner, but you clearly can't do that if you're dead or converted. This may explain why people like voting Heat even if it's not actually the biggest threat.

    Having said that you can't choose to be Rice or Shiny, they are still important roles to consider because of how it affects the other roles. Heat again gets short shrift here. It is the only role that is perfectly countered by Rice Rotom in a situation involving no other Rotoms, as Mode 2 gives Rice perfect immunity to anything Heat can do. Rice will win even if it's outnumbered 30-1, like a Kuja amongst Moogles. It also diminishes the advantages of having a multi-targetting poison. Against Shiny it's slightly better. It at least takes longer to die from its poison, but its distract is also made useless. Also, it's probably easier to inspect Shiny because no one else is probably Heat with you lol
     
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  13. MUMU

    MUMU Just a random Haxer nOOb

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    Well, some parts of the overall heat vs fan argument depends on what count as winning I guess, there is a chance that fans are least likely to be the winning faction by the end of the game(not sure with heats), but a player choosing fan has a lot less chance of not being on the winning team in comparision because a fan that has been "defeated" by a frost can still win as a frost, so it depends on what is "winning" quite a bit.
    Meanwhile a heat has even less chance than average because no one is going to "let's convert it" with a heat because of how many frosts it can beat at once.
     
  14. Yttrium

    Yttrium Active Member Developer Developer

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    I think we defined "Fans winning" as "winning as the role Fan Rotom."
     
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