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Suspect Discussion: Registeel

Discussion in 'Gen 6 NU' started by Xdevo, Oct 8, 2016.

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  1. Xdevo

    Xdevo God Bless the President Tier Leader Tour Director Tier Leader Tour Director

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    Discuss the possibility of Registeel being banned from the ORAS NU tier.

    Use this thread to discuss Registeel's effect on the metagame; talk about the different sets it can use, good partners and potential checks/counters. State your opinion on whether you think it should be banned, but make sure your posts are backed up by experience and knowledge. Anyone who makes post based on theorymon risks being infracted.

    If you're unsure about posting check out this guide and post anyway.
     
  2. lucianvega

    lucianvega New Member

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    -Lets start that Registeel is one of the best stealth rock users in NU rn, and its pretty much a blessing to have. Steel typing in Nu is amazing and the resists it provide for balance is matched by no other rockers, which makes it pretty splashable to fit on these type of builds. On paper it takes on most common normal,flying types while being a nice psychic and ice check for mons like Jynx that are great balance breakers. It also provides a nice utility in Twave/Toxic which offers a nice speed control and way to take on slow setup sweepers like musharna. Theres a lot of qualities to Registeel, and pairing it with defensive pokemon like weezing/plume/lanturn is always decent, so lets move on to the downsides since everyone knows what it does well.
    -While it has great bulk of 80/150/150, registeel doesnt have any offensive presence and its pretty much forced to run Seismic Toss and toxic for a way to deal with threats, which makes it a Setup bait for a plenty of common NU threats that can take advantage of it. Its a role compressor since the rare typing, and normal spam being common can pretty much easily run through it since it cant take an EQ from tauros well, CC from zangoose etc, only normal type that it reliable walls is swellow, which can u turn out into trapper.
    -Its low offensive stats makes it limited to only particular builds like Bulkier balances leading to stall really, since theres plenty of rockers that do better on other archetypes, its a momentum sack and it doesnt have reliable recovery, so its prone to being weakened quite easily.
    I think this suspect is a bit overkill, since registeel isnt broken by any means, its just a very good defensive pokemon with nice resistances and utility it brings on table, im voting No Ban.
     
    Slurmz, fsk, prof.dragonite and 4 others like this.
  3. Funbot28

    Funbot28 Active Member

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    Guess should post this now since SuMo is coming ever so near, personally feel that Registeel is a huge nuisance to the meta ever since it had dropped. 80/160/160 defenses is truly insane for NU standards and this is really apparent as Registeel could practically avoid the 2HKO from many common wall breakers in the meta with the correct EV investment. It also possesses a great support move pool in Steath Rocks, Toxic, Seismic Toss and Rest which truly helps it support and weaken down opposing mons quite easily. If the opposing team lacks a Ground, Fire or Fighting type, breaking down Registeel can truly be a nightmare. To me Registeel, possesses to much Defensive capabilities and supportive options to be a huge problem to the tier. Again it's not really broken, but when you look more into it and actually use it/face it, it really becomes an unhealthy proponent to the meta.

    Ban Registeel
     
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  4. Professor Oak

    Professor Oak Pika... chu... Forum Administrator Server Owner Forum Administrator Server Owner

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    Avoiding a 2HKO isn't really that important if you cannot do anything in return. Registeel is a solid check to a lot of Pokémon, and a counter to a few, but there are still plenty of common options that just flat-out beat Registeel.
    Going down the NU viability rankings, and assuming max SDef Registeel (as all Curse sets are max SDef, and most others vary between 4 and ~132 Def EVs):

    Mega Audino only 4HKOs with Fire Blast, but any Registeel that isn't Curse or lacks Rest will lose due to the lack of recovery. All other Audino just get blocked by Registeel. It's not really a wallbreaker, however.
    252+ Atk Gurdurr Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Registeel: 164-194 (45 - 53.2%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery, and Bulk Up and Drain Punch lets it win vs Curse Registeel.
    252+ SpA Magmortar Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Registeel: 206-246 (56.5 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    Mesprit can still set up Stealth Rock and U-turn for momentum rather easily. Otherwise, Registeel stops it.
    Musharna loses, flat out. It isn't a wallbreaker, though.
    Spiritomb beats Curse Registeel with Taunt and Will-o-Wisp, non-Curse Registeel outspeeds and can hit with Toxic, but eats a burn too.
    Lanturn can burn with Scald, but otherwise fears Toxic and Seismic Toss, and it cannot stop Stealth Rock from being put up. Again, it's not a wallbreaker.
    252+ Atk Hariyama Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Registeel: 288-338 (79.1 - 92.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    +2 252 Atk Life Orb Kabutops Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Registeel: 220-259 (60.4 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ Atk Kangaskhan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Registeel: 136-162 (37.3 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery | Registeel can't switch in repeatedly, and it can only status it in return.
    Registeel vs Registeel is probably the least interesting battle ever.
    +2 252+ Atk Samurott Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Registeel: 168-198 (46.1 - 54.3%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery | 252+ SpA Life Orb Samurott Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Registeel: 121-144 (33.2 - 39.5%) -- 19.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    Scyther loses to Registeel. It isn't a wallbreaker, however.
    Vileplume can put Registeel to sleep, and it can cure status for free. Curse Registeel does win this fight, however.
    Vivillon can put Registeel to sleep, but Registeel isn't really afraid of Vivillon anyway. It's not a wallbreaker though.
    Vaporeon can burn Registeel with Scald, but does not like Toxic. Curse Registeel cannot break Vaporeon, and this goes to a PP war vs Scald burns and damage.
    Specs Magneton beats Curse Registeel only. Seismic Toss outdamages Thunderbolt.
    252 Atk Life Orb Tauros Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Registeel: 166-198 (45.6 - 54.3%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    Cincinno doesn't get coverage on Steel-types, letting Registeel flat out beat it.
    252+ SpA Life Orb Mega Launcher Clawitzer Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Registeel: 190-226 (52.1 - 62%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery | and it also has to worry about Scald burns.
    Klinklang... you poor bastard. Registeel just eats you for breakfast.
    Stallbreaker Mismagius eats Registeel for breakfast. Taunt stopping all of his attacks, immunity to Seismic Toss and Iron Head being reduced in damage by Will-o-Wisp is fun. Nasty Plot can struggle, but it is a lot rarer.
    252 SpA Life Orb Pyroar Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Registeel: 221-265 (60.7 - 72.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    16+ Atk Rhydon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Registeel: 212-252 (58.2 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery | and that doesn't count Swords Dance Rhydon
    Shiftry can remove Leftovers with Knock Off, and does good damage with its Dark-type moves, but can only muster a 4HKO. Swords Dance Shiftry can 2HKO at +2, but that requires prior damage, Registeel to still have its Leftovers, or Sucker Punch to work.
    252+ Atk Choice Band Stoutland Superpower vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Registeel: 270-318 (74.1 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    Specs Swellow actually has an answer in Registeel, as Heat Wave is a 4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers. Physical Swellow is worse than Specs Swellow. At least it can U-turn out.
    252+ Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Registeel: 276-326 (75.8 - 89.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Archeops Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Registeel: 162-192 (44.5 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery | without Iron Head, Registeel loses, especially if Archeops has Roost.
    Most Jynx apparently don't run Focus Blast on PO, which lets Registeel win... if it is Curse or has Iron Head. Otherwise, Lovely Kiss and Nasty Plot overwhelms Registeel. Someone used Specs Jynx, which does 2HKO with Focus Blast... but ehhhhh.
    Rotom beats Registeel if it doesn't have Curse. Will-o-Wisp makes Iron Head useless, Hex 3HKOs after the burn takes effect, and if Rotom runs Substitute, it is game over. It can also Trick Choice items onto Registeel, Pain Split to recover health...

    That's just the S and A ranked Pokémon

    And if the opposing team lacks a Rock or Steel type, Swellow, Tauros, Zangoose and others destroy them. If the opposing team lacks a Water, Fire, Rock or Dragon type, Magmortar and any other Fire-types destroy them. This point is very poor indeed.
     
  5. Joyverse

    Joyverse Buon Giorno! Forum Moderator Articles Leader Forum Moderator Articles Leader

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    Not going to say much here but..
    I'd like to add BU Phazer Throh/Poliwrath and Iron Fist Hitmonchan to the list. SubSeed Gourgeist-S is also an option against Non-Curse Regi.
    Also Regi's bulk is 80/150/150.
     
  6. Draciel

    Draciel Admin / Tier Overlord Server Owner Tour Director Admin / Tier Overlord Server Owner Tour Director

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    Registeel is another controversial NU mon which has been in the tier for a long time; some players think it's balls-out broken, some think it's manageable, and the rest think it deserves to be NU. It's very similar to Virizion in this aspect which was suspected some time back, only that Virizion was an offensive powerhouse and Registeel is a defensive behemoth. Stellar 80/150/150 defenses with access to a plethora of support moves makes it the premier defensive mon in the tier. But is it too much for the tier? Is it broken in a manner that it should be banned from NU, or is it fine as it is? We've been arguing over this point for a long time but nothing unanimous has been reached so far.

    When you take a closer look at Registeel what immediately stands out is it's superb bulk, allowing it to avoid 2HKOs even from super-effective moves which the correct EV spread; it also has a pure steel typing so it can't be poisoned to wear down, it has SR, Thunder Wave and Toxic to wear down it's opponents. But what it lacks is a reliable recovery move, and the fact that it is extremely passive and is a complete Taunt-bait. Weaknesses to common Fire/Fighting/Ground types hurts it, especially with mons like Magmortar, Pyroar, Primeape, Hitmonchan, Gurdurr and Hariyama being extremely common in NU. It's also a perennial Knock Off bait, since it absolutely despises losing lefties recovery as it has no other means (except Rest which is unreliable). All in all Registeel doesn't look at all threatening on paper, it has multiple hard checks, it hates Scald and Knock off, it shouldn't be hard to beat at all.

    But in practice, Registeel is far more annoying to face. When you isolate it and look at it's strengths and weaknesses it doesn't seem much, but in reality, it provides crucial team support which is often the deciding factor in a win/lose situation. Setting SR, crippling a set-up sweeper which threatens to sweep your team, completely walling several others (Musharna, Uxie, Mesprit, Mega Audino to name a few), Toxic stalling, scouting a scarfed mon with Protect: Regi can do any and all defensive tasks in a team and it does that flawlessly. It's just so easy to splash Regi on a NU team: you need a mon that walls half the tier? use Regi; You need a reliable SR user? Use Regi; You need a last ditch Twave mon to save your ass from Setup Sweepers? Use Regi. Sure it has checks, but how many of them bar Gurdurr (and maybe Hariyama, although it hates Toxic because no Drain Punch) can you switch in to Regi reliably without getting crippled? And surely it doesn't need to beat the whole tier on it's own, it has five other teammates for that. Another set I'd like to mention is Curse/Rest/Iron Head/Sleep Talk, which isn't very common but can be a threatening late-game cleaner even in higher tiers. It has the ability to set up on more than half the tier, and lives even powerful super-effective moves on the physical side after a couple of curses under it's belt; so let it set-up at your own peril.

    Gonna keep it short: the amount of team support and defensive utility Registeel provides vastly outshines it's negative traits, and in my opinion it has been in NU for far too long.
     
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  7. Xdevo

    Xdevo God Bless the President Tier Leader Tour Director Tier Leader Tour Director

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    Registeel will be remaining unbanned.


    Whilst Registeel's ability to wall a huge portion of the tier is annoying, and the Curse set is very powerful, Registeel is very liable to be worn down over the course of a match, seeing as it lacks reliable recovery. Registeel isn't broken in the traditional sense, seeing as there are more than a few things that can 2HKO it in the meta that are common and good (Magmortar, Pyroar, a slew of Fighters). With it being this late in the metagame, banning such an essential part of the metagame on the grounds of improving the metagame is a bit disingenuous (it's going to ruin a lot of teams, and there's no real way to test to see if the new metagame is even better), thus the verdict.
     
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