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[Metagame] SM LC Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Gen 7 LC' started by E.T., Nov 18, 2016.

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  1. E.T.

    E.T. Proud Member Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader

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    SM LC Discussion Thread
    Use this thread to discuss the Sun / Moon Little Cup (SM LC) metagame, including potentially broken Pokémon or re-tests. We will be starting with the following ban list (things with links have been banned since the initial list was made).

    Ban List:
    Banned Pokémon: Cutiefly, Gligar, Meditite, Misdreavus, Murkrow, Scyther, Sneasel, Swirlix, Tangela, Yanma
    Banned Items: Eevium Z
    Banned Moves: Conversion, Dragon Rage, Sonic Boom


    Sleep Clause
    Species Clause
    Self-KO Clause
    Team Preview
    OHKO Clause - You cannot use the moves Fissure, Guillotine, Horn Drill or Sheer Cold (except in ORAS Doubles).
    Evasion Clause - You cannot use the moves Double Team or Minimize, or the items Brightpowder or Lax Incense.
    Moody Clause - You cannot use the ability Moody.
    Confusion Clause - You cannot use the moves Confuse Ray, Flatter, Supersonic, Swagger, Sweet Kiss or Teeter Dance.
    Attract Clause - You cannot use the move Attract.
    Hax Item Clause - You cannot use the items King's Rock, Razor Fang or Quick Claw.

    Note that in addition to Pokémon introduced by SM...
    1. Rowlet | Grass / Flying | Overgrow, Long Reach* (Doesn't make contact)
    2. Litten | Fire | Blaze, Intimidate*
    3. Popplio | Water | Torrent, Liquid Voice* (Sound moves become Water-type)
    4. Rockruff | Rock | Keen Eye, Vital Spirit, Steadfast
    5. Yungoos | Normal | Stakeout (Doubles damage against switch-ins.) , Strong Jaw, Adaptability
    6. Pikipek | Normal / Flying | Keen Eye, Skill Link, Pickup
    7. Grubbin | Bug | Swarm
    8. Stufful | Normal / Fighting | Fluffy (Half-damage from contact moves; Double fire damage) , Klutz, Cute Charm
    9. Mudbray | Ground | Own Tempo / Stamina (Defense raises one stage when hit.), Inner Focus
    10. Fomantis | Grass | Leaf Guard, Contrary
    11. Sandygast | Ghost / Ground | Water Compaction (Defense raises two stages if hit with Water.), Sand Veil
    12. Type: Null | Normal | Battle Armor
    13. Jangmo-o | Dragon | Bullet Proof, Sound Proof, Overcoat
    14. Cosmog | Psychic | Unaware
    15. Cutiefly | Bug / Fairy | Honey Gatherer, Shield Dust,Sweet Veil
    16. Salandit | Poison / Fire | Corrosion (Can poison Steel-types), Oblivious
    17. Wimpod | Bug / Water | Wimp Out (Basically, Eject Button when HP below 50%)
    18. Bounsweet | Grass | Leaf Guard, Oblivious, Sweet Veil (Like Vital Spirit)
    19. Morelull | Grass / Fairy | Illuminate, Effect Spore, Rain Dish
    20. Mareanie | Poison / Water | Merciless (Crits if target is Poisoned), Limber, Regenerator
    21. Dewpider | Water / Bug | Water Bubble (Halves Fire damage, doubles Water moves before STAB, prevents burns), Water Absorb
    22. Crabrawler | Fighting | Hyper Cutter, Iron Fist, Anger Point
    *Not Yet Released

    Alolan Formes
    1. Rattata | Dark / Normal | Gluttony, Hustle, Thick Fat
    2. Sandshrew | Ice / Steel | Snow Cloak, Slush Rush (Boosts speed in Hail)
    3. Vulpix | Ice | Snow Cloak, Snow Warning
    4. Meowth | Dark | Pickup, Technician, Rattled
    5. Grimer | Poison / Dark | Poison Touch, Gluttony, Power of Alchemy (Doubles only)
    6. Diglett | Ground / Steel | Sand Veil , Tangled Hair (Gooey clone), Sand Force
    7. Geodude | Rock / Electric | Magnet Pull, Sturdy, Galvanize (Electric version of Pixilate)

    ...Murkrow, Meditite, Misdreavus, and Diglett are unbanned. Generation 7 has also introduced a plethora of new game mechanics.

    Expect Eevee's Z-move (boosts all stats to +2) and Type: Null (has extremely high base stats for LC) to be quick banned, but they will probably be allowed for at least a day or two.

    Edit: Type: Null can't be obtained at level 5, so it can't be used in LC anyway.
    Edit 2: Eevium Z was quickbanned.
    Edit 3: Conversion and Murkrow were quickbanned.
    Edit 4: Cutiefly and Misdreavus were suspected and banned.
    Edit 5: Meditite was suspected and banned.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2017
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  2. HSOWA

    HSOWA Nya~ Server Moderator Server Moderator

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    You can't get Type: Null at Level 5 anyway, as it can't breed, and you get it at a higher level ingame.
     
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  3. Annoying Orange

    Annoying Orange sweet creature Server Moderator Social Media Rep Server Moderator Social Media Rep

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    I can see Mareanie being nice as it has toxic spikes/regen/recover also can ohko Drilbur on switch in while being able to live an eq

    0 SpA Mareanie Scald vs. 36 HP / 76 SpD Drilbur: 18-24 (78.2 - 104.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
    76 Atk Mold Breaker Drilbur Earthquake vs. 236 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Mareanie: 14-20 (58.3 - 83.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
     
  4. Joyverse

    Joyverse Road Roller time!

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    That's Type: Null. Besides HSOWA explained its availability so..
     
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  5. E.T.

    E.T. Proud Member Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader

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    Good to know. The OP has been updated to reflect Type: Null being illegal in LC.
    I've added Mareanie to the OP since I missed it. Merciless seems like an interesting ability, but it probably won't see any usage because of how awesome Regen is. Statistically, Skrelp hits harder thanks to Adaptability, and it has better Special bulk, but Mareanie having Regen and access to Recover should make it last much longer than Skrelp, which has to rely on Rest-Talk for recovery. Looks pretty interesting.
     
  6. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    Ahh, fair enough. Yeah, I was really tired when I posted that lol, please forgive me. xS
     
  7. 9898

    9898 New Member

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    I like eviolite mudbray. Maybe berry juice if it's special oriented threats can be managed

    Pawniard remains top tier.
     
  8. Velvet Blood

    Velvet Blood Well-Known Member

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    Mudbray is a good mon yes, it's new ability Stamina comes in handy when facing major threats in lc like mienfoo or pawniard. A good set for mudbray is the rest talk set.
    But a mon I wanted to talk about was Alolan Grimer, with its new typing, it's only weakness are Ground type attacks, and thanks to its typing it can now counter both threats in lc at the moment which is gothita and abra, and alolan grimer has access to strong poison STAB moves like Gunk Shot, but you can use poison jab if you aren't a fan of low accuracy moves. Overall alolan grimer is a great mon to use, yes there is also stunky, but grimer has a 50 Base Defense and Special Defense while stunky has a base stat of 47 Defense and 41 Special Defense.

    Grimer-Alola @ Eviolite
    Ability: Poison Touch
    Level: 5 80 36 196 196
    EVs: 80 HP / 36 Atk / 196 Def / 196 SpD
    Adamant Nature
    - Poison Jab / Gunk Shot
    - Knock Off
    - Pursuit
    - Shadow Sneak
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2017
  9. E.T.

    E.T. Proud Member Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader

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    Eevium Z has been quick banned from SM LC.

    Eevium Z allows Eevee to use its Z Move, Extreme Evoboost, which boosts all its stats by two stages. Eevee does need Last Resort in its moveset to use it, but this isn’t much of a handicap considering what it gains by using the Z Move. In addition, Eevee can Baton Pass these boosts to setup another Pokémon to win the game. Since neither Eevee itself nor Baton Pass have proven to be broken in SM LC at this point, it was decided that the logical option was to ban Eevium Z, which effectively bans Extreme Evoboost as well.
     
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  10. E.T.

    E.T. Proud Member Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader

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    The LC Resources have been updated to reflect the recent Cutiefly and Misdreavus bans (Conversion and Murkrow have also been banned since the last post, but that's old news).

    The next suspect will probably be Meditite unless anyone has seen anything that should be looked at sooner.
     
  11. E.T.

    E.T. Proud Member Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader

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    With Meditite concluded, feel free to make suggestions for what should be looked at next. I'm thinking Gothita should be next on the agenda.

    The main reason that Baton Pass was banned in other tiers was passed stat boosts + Magic Bounce + Stored Power shenanigans. Natu is the only LC Pokemon with the combination of Magic Bounce + Stored Power, and BP chains are generally lackluster in LC. Torchic is probably the most dangerous BP passer due to having Speed Boost, but I don't really think it is broken. If people can explain why Baton Pass is broken in LC and would be worth looking at, feel free to post.
     
  12. Quote.

    Quote. New Member

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    Gothita should absolutely be the next suspect. Its ability to completely shut down balance is absolutely ridiculous. In many situations, you're required to have a Dark-type or else you lose, and losing your Dark-type can very well mean losing the game. Goth comes in on a not-so-strong Pokemon or something it can resist/tank reasonably well, sets up to +6/+6 and wins (unless your dark is still alive).
     
Moderators: E.T.