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[Monotype] Monotype General Discussion

Discussion in 'Gen 7 Side Metagames' started by sulcata, Feb 9, 2017.

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  1. sulcata

    sulcata cory is #1 bae Tiering Administrator Server Administrator Tiering Administrator Server Administrator

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    Welcome to the Monotype general discussion thread. Monotype operates under the restriction that all Pokemon on a team must share a common type upon entering battle. Please post any and all questions and concerns about the metagame here. This is also where suspect discussions may be proposed.

    Inherits all bans from ORAS Ubers.

    Clauses: Self-KO Clause, Sleep Clause, Species Clause, Team Preview

    Banned Pokemon: Aegislash, Arceus, Arceus-Bug, Arceus-Dark, Arceus-Dragon, Arceus-Electric, Arceus-Fairy, Arceus-Fighting, Arceus-Fire, Arceus-Flying, Arceus-Ghost, Arceus-Grass, Arceus-Ground, Arceus-Ice, Arceus-Poison, Arceus-Psychic, Arceus-Rock, Arceus-Steel, Arceus-Water, Blaziken, Darkrai, Deoxys, Deoxys-Attack, Deoxys-Defense, Deoxys-Speed, Dialga, Genesect, Giratina, Giratina-Origin, Greninja, Greninja-Unbonded, Groudon, Ho-Oh, Hoopa-Unbound, Kyogre, Kyurem-White, Lugia, Lunala, Mewtwo, Palkia, Rayquaza, Reshiram, Shaymin-Sky, Solgaleo, Tapu Lele, Xerneas, Yveltal, Zekrom

    Banned Abilities: Power Construct, Shadow Tag

    Banned Items: Damp Rock, Gengarite, Heat Rock, Kangaskhanite, Lucarionite, Mawilite, Salamencite, Smooth Rock, Terrain Extender

    Banned Moves: Baton Pass, Thousand Arrows

    A bit of discussion has already been going on the general side metagames discussion thread. The following Pokemon have been brought up as possible suspects:

    Mega Metagross
    Charizard X/Y
    Kartana
    Pheromosa
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2017
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  2. Joyverse

    Joyverse Road Roller time!

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    Actually yeah, I don't think we should downright ban the terrain abilities or the weather inducing abilities for that matter. I actually think the reason pokemon like Tapu Lele, Tapu Koko, Hippo (maybe I shouldn't be comparing) are nearly superlative in their respective types (Psychic, Elec, and Ground). If we strip them of these items then we can possibly avoid any long term issues that opposing teams have in trying to break the above mentioned teams. A balancing effect of sorts.
    Somehow, even after the banning of these items, if we do see the weather / terrain abilities being broken then we can go ahead and suspect them.

    I'll add more later.
     
  3. Annoying Orange

    Annoying Orange sweet creature Server Moderator Social Media Rep Server Moderator Social Media Rep

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    I think terrain extender and maybe weather extending items are worth banning over the abilities themselves.
    Alone, they aren't really as broken as made out to be.

    Greninja and Genesect, like in OU, are still really hard to check thanks to their sheer power and movepool.

    Metagross is sorta similar, except some types have more reliable switchins (which still arent that reliable) than others, but it's still not something easy to take on, especially thanks to the mega evolution speed buff.

    Tapu Lele as a whole imo should be banned, as it was on PS. It hits so hard and allows a lot of other powerful and/or fast Pokemon on the team do so. It's even better in monotype because the opponent is limited to what they can do to take this thing on.

    will also add more
     
  4. Joyverse

    Joyverse Road Roller time!

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    I am confused here. How come Gene is allowed atm? Isn't it banned in OU? Weren't we following the OU Banlist???
     
  5. Annoying Orange

    Annoying Orange sweet creature Server Moderator Social Media Rep Server Moderator Social Media Rep

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    uh yeah im saying like both of them were in ou lol.
     
  6. sulcata

    sulcata cory is #1 bae Tiering Administrator Server Administrator Tiering Administrator Server Administrator

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    Ban Genesect.
    Ban Greninja (both forms).
    Ban weather rocks.
    Ban Terrain Extender.

    Start Tapu Lele suspect.

    Any objections?
     
  7. Edna

    Edna I'm like Cinderella with an umbrella Forum Moderator Forum Moderator

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    100% agreeing
     
  8. E.T.

    E.T. Proud Member Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader

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    Sounds like a good place to start.
     
  9. Annoying Orange

    Annoying Orange sweet creature Server Moderator Social Media Rep Server Moderator Social Media Rep

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  10. Atli

    Atli Time just fades the pages in my book of memories Forum Moderator Server Administrator Forum Moderator Server Administrator

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    Which weather rocks are we talking about? Because I agree with Damp and Smooth but I don't really think Icy Rock makes Ice any broken at all and I havent seen enough of Heat Rock to have a proper opinion on that yet

    I agree with the rest, though I feel like either Zygarde/Thousand Arrows should have priority over Tapu Lele for next suspect (tbh the only thing worth discussing here is whether the move or the pokemon as a whole should be banned)
     
  11. sulcata

    sulcata cory is #1 bae Tiering Administrator Server Administrator Tiering Administrator Server Administrator

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    I guess bar icy and heat rock since one isn't broken and the other we might end up banning the weather or a mega instead.

    If nobody disagrees with a Thousand Arrows ban then we can do that too. Aside from the complete form, I think it's pretty clear that both are underwhelming without this move and that it'd make any half decent ground overpowered.
     
  12. E.T.

    E.T. Proud Member Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader

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    With the addition of Slush Rush, hail might actually have some threatening sweepers in the form of Beartic and Alolan Sandslash, which could be supported by Icy Rock Aurora Veil Alolan Ninetales quite nicely. I do think it is too early to simply label Icy Rock as broken, but it could be something to watch.

    I presume that the weather rock ban refers to the others: Damp, Smooth, and Heat. While this probably is a good preliminary measure, and it may be the only measure required for sand, I'm not expecting it to have /that/ much of an impact on sun since Mega Charizard Y can't run it anyway, and now Torkoal, the nearly-obligatory hazard remover for Fire, gets Drought as well.

    An alternative option would be to ban Drought and Drizzle first (since they will probably end up being banned eventually anyway) and to deal with Heat and Damp Rock later if needed.
     
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  13. sulcata

    sulcata cory is #1 bae Tiering Administrator Server Administrator Tiering Administrator Server Administrator

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    Decided on banning all rocks bar icy for now. If we end up suspect any of the weather abilities or users I'll probably unban whichever rock is relevant depending on the precise scenario.

    Implemented all the other bans I asked about bar Thousand Arrows and Lele. Will open a Tapu Lele discussion soon(tm)

    Thousand Arrows will probably also be banned unless someone thinks there's a reason to ban Zygarde instead.
     
  14. Joyverse

    Joyverse Road Roller time!

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    I think if we ban Icy Rock. Next we get is the similarly annoying Light Clay Alola9tales.

    Agreed on everything Corey mentioned.
     
  15. Edna

    Edna I'm like Cinderella with an umbrella Forum Moderator Forum Moderator

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    Alola Ninetales tbh is better in Fairy since it helps mons such as Azumarill, Mimikyu, Tapu Bulu, Magearna and a lot of Fairies. It's not broken in any way, it's just a support mon and you can remove it with Defog or even Taunt with a faster pokemon or just threaten Ninetales a lot. On top of that, you lose the opportunity to have sash.

    Ice Rock is ok in my opinion, considering the 2 abusers are Beartic and Sandlash, both who don't have a huge atk nor get a boost of hail for their typing ( unlike Sun and Rain). They also need to set up so they actually work. Though I would gladly remove evasion abilities such as Snow Cloak because it's very painful to deal with a mon when you're 100% accurate move miss because of Brightpowder+Snow Cloak.

    Thousand Arrows is more ban worthy than Zygardes, as 10% form doesn't hit strong enough and 50% form is easily countered.
     
  16. Edna

    Edna I'm like Cinderella with an umbrella Forum Moderator Forum Moderator

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  17. sulcata

    sulcata cory is #1 bae Tiering Administrator Server Administrator Tiering Administrator Server Administrator

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  18. E.T.

    E.T. Proud Member Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader

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    I guess banning Thousand Arrows is the best option. I can't imagine Zygarde still being a problem without Power Construct or Thousand Arrows, and nobody seems to be opposed to banning Thousand Arrows.
     
  19. E.T.

    E.T. Proud Member Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader

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    Has anyone tried / played against Flyinium Z Salamence yet? I've been using it on Flying and it seems quite formidable. Also, has anyone tried Mega Mawile or Mega Beedrill yet?
     
  20. Annoying Orange

    Annoying Orange sweet creature Server Moderator Social Media Rep Server Moderator Social Media Rep

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    I've actually used Flyinium mence on mono flying and it can be as potent as it is in OU. the only thing it has issues with is things like Skarm, Celesteela, rocky helmet bulky mons, etc which aren't too hard to work around given the variety of Flying Pokemon you can use. It can still easily tear through teams.
     
  21. Edna

    Edna I'm like Cinderella with an umbrella Forum Moderator Forum Moderator

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    To be fair, I think Z moves should be handled after the most important threats. The metagame is quite new and to be honest I feel like Double Dance Landorus-T with Edgequake is better in flying but that's just me
     
  22. Joyverse

    Joyverse Road Roller time!

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    Uh guys? You do realize Mega Mawile is released right? It's an absolute beast, even now, especially in Fairy. We should be really be talking about it tbh.
     
  23. Funbot28

    Funbot28 Active Member

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    Banned Items: Damp Rock, Gengarite, Heat Rock, Kangaskhanite, Lucarionite, Mawilite, Salamencite, Smooth Rock, Terrain Extender
     
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  24. fsk

    fsk Kept Hacking Tier Leader Server Moderator Tier Leader Server Moderator

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    Welp, newly released mega stones could have been either A) Quick-banned by the TL, aka sulcata here or B) Start as allowed. (The initial Monotype banlist is OU initial banlist plus genesect and Hoopa-U, refer to sm tiering plan. idk what happened in creating this tier on server lol)
    While sulcata didn't say quickban, Mega Maw is indeed allowed and usable on the server. Just no one remember to update the OP. However, I actually should @sulcata to ask if it should get quickbanned, since you were not on here when the release happened; the same actually also applies to Monogen. (assuming default unban in 3v3 and 1v1 as they were allowed throughout last gen.)

    Sulcata: ban them all. - April 4th in Indigo.

    Accordingly, Mawilite, Hoopa-Unbound, Genesect are banned, together with move Thousand Arrows.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2017
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  25. Edna

    Edna I'm like Cinderella with an umbrella Forum Moderator Forum Moderator

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    Can we suspect Mega Metagross? The buff it got this gen with instant speed pushes it over the edge. Wanna elaborate more but I'd rather to keep my arguments for the suspect
     
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  26. sulcata

    sulcata cory is #1 bae Tiering Administrator Server Administrator Tiering Administrator Server Administrator

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    If there aren't any objections to banning Mega Metagross and Pheromosa, then they'll be banned after this week.
     
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  27. Edna

    Edna I'm like Cinderella with an umbrella Forum Moderator Forum Moderator

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  28. Atli

    Atli Time just fades the pages in my book of memories Forum Moderator Server Administrator Forum Moderator Server Administrator

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    agreeing with those, and kartana should probably be added too

    also can we unban heat rock lol, it's nowhere near broken and i don't see any reason why it would deserve a ban
     
  29. Edna

    Edna I'm like Cinderella with an umbrella Forum Moderator Forum Moderator

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    I'd rather if we do a proper suspect test for Kartana ( or that we form a council cause they might be dead) because i'm not completely sure it deserves to be directly banned

    I think that Heat Rock can be unbanned or to an extent retested as anyway the only true benefit of the sun is in term or power and because Monowater is quite common with Pelliper either specs or Defog Uturn can be a nuisance for sun teams
     
  30. Strudels

    Strudels ・◡・ Super Moderator Server Administrator Super Moderator Server Administrator

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    Pheromosa and Metagrossite have been banned
     
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  31. Edna

    Edna I'm like Cinderella with an umbrella Forum Moderator Forum Moderator

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    I believe Marshadow should be quickbanned cause it's like an instant win vs Psychic, Spectral Thief is an amazing move, it has an amazing coverage which happens to be its stab, high speed, high attack, boosted priority Shadow Sneak making Ghost vs Ghost a Marshadow fight to win ( similarly to what was Heatean vs Heatran in steel vs steel)

    You basically need to run stuff like Alomomola, Skarmory, Tangrowth but some of these lose to Bulk Up+ its Z crystal and therefore it severly lacks of counters especially in this format

    Scarf can also be very good and it allows it to steal your oppo boost and attack with them, nothing to joke about since it can counter sweep some set ups that should in theory win you the game

    All given what Marshadow have as an impact in the metagame it should be quickbanned
     
  32. Atli

    Atli Time just fades the pages in my book of memories Forum Moderator Server Administrator Forum Moderator Server Administrator

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    yes marshadow is dumb and has no reason to stay allowed

    can we have something be done about that + kartana and heat rock asap thx @sulcata
     
  33. sulcata

    sulcata cory is #1 bae Tiering Administrator Server Administrator Tiering Administrator Server Administrator

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    quick banning marshadow is fine.
    @Strudels
     
  34. Strudels

    Strudels ・◡・ Super Moderator Server Administrator Super Moderator Server Administrator

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