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[Metagame] March-April SM UU Suspect and Metagame Discussion

Discussion in 'Gen 7 UU' started by Xdevo, Mar 1, 2017.

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  1. Xdevo

    Xdevo The bear was upon Tom Tiering Administrator Tour Director Tiering Administrator Tour Director

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    So, UU is finally coming to PO!

    The starting OU list is:
    Celesteela, Chansey, Charizard, Dugtrio, Excadrill, Ferrothorn, Garchomp, Gengar, Greninja, Gyarados, Heatran, Kartana, Landorus-Therian, Magearna, Magnezone, Mamoswine, Mandibuzz, Alolan-Marowak, Metagross, Mimikyu, Nihilego, Pheromosa, Pinsir, Sableye, Scizor, Skarmory, Tapu Bulu, Tapu Fini, Tapu Koko, Tapu Lele, Toxapex, Tyranitar, Venusaur, Volcarona, Xurkitree, Zapdos, Zygarde

    Quickbans: Manaphy, Kyurem-B, Salamence, Dragonite, Hoopa-Unbound

    Moves: Conversion

    Looking forward, I do feel that a couple of quickbans are going to be needed. Manaphy, Kyurem-B, Salamence, Dragonite, Hoopa-Unbound, and perhaps Porygon-Z look like the first targets, so please discuss these and anything else about the metagame.


    Permanent tier leaders will be announced in the future, currently the tiering admins (myself and Sulcata) will be temporarily creating the threads and leading the discussion.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2017
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  2. Annoying Orange

    Annoying Orange sweet creature Social Media Rep Social Media Rep

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    simply put, salamence is broken. it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know this. Earthquake hits most steel/rock Pokemon that resist Supersonic Skystrike and only a couple of them have levitate. you're almost forced to run a mon with ice shard or ditto to revenge kill it.
     
  3. Joyverse

    Joyverse Road Roller time! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    With the reset in action putting things like Alakazam (+Alakazite) in the tier. Feel free to discuss those as well.

    About Mence. I personally feel that it's broken. Due to the same reasons Zelda mentioned. Z-Fly as a one-time nuke is enough to rip through old checks like Quagsire or Forretress. That said, it was already suspected last gen but somehow it survived. This gen is much different with Z-Moves in the mix so I think it's time we say goodbye to the dragon. +1/+1 Mence doesn't really have much counterplay aside from say Quag or Clef which gets Skystriked and Priority from Weavile but that's the most I can get.
     
  4. fsk

    fsk Kept hacking Tier Leader Server Moderator Tier Leader Server Moderator

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    Hoopa-Unbound (god!), Manaphy, and Porygon-Z are the most obvious power creep, in addition to Kyurem-B, Dragonite, and Salamence.

    It should also be noted that, Mewnium Z + Mega Alakazam is allowed, Drizzle + Kingdra is allowed. The metagame is partially ORAS OU, with Azumarill, Breloom, Bisharp, Clefable, Diggersby, Gliscor, Keldeo, Latias, Latios, Rotom-Wash, Staraptor, Scolipede, Serperior, Slowbronite,Terrakion, Thundurus-I,Thundurus-T, Tornadus-T, Volcanion, and Weavile allowed.

    While it is very common to ban the over power attackers first, do not forget to look at the defensive threats such as Slowbronite,Rotom-Wash and Clefable later. With the usage stats being as such with so many OU wall pokemon last gen allowed, it is actually too early to claim what is actually overpower or not, more serious games are apparently needed. This tiering process will take quite a long time i guess.
     
  5. E.T.

    E.T. Proud Member Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader

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    Salamence seems problematic because Dragon Dance + Supersonic Strike + Moxie can allow it to get out of hand very quickly.

    I've played briefly with Drizzle, which now has the option of using Pelipper to set up rain. Unlike Politoed, Pelipper has reliable recovery in the form of Roost, it can provide Defog support, and it can spam Hurricane to be annoying. Kingdra and Belly Drum Azumarill become absolute savages with Drizzle support, Tornadus-T and Thundurus-T become more threatening as well due to being able to spam Hurricane and Thunder with 100% accuracy. I haven't tried Manaphy or Volcanion yet, but they are probably worth noting.
     
  6. Joyverse

    Joyverse Road Roller time! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    Yes, I feel like Drizzle is a very good weather in UU atm. And by good, I mean broken. Tornadus-T and Thundy-T are absolute savages in rain. That, and Z-Rain+TG or TG Manaphy is an extremely dangerous wallbreaker in rain with nothing truly countering it. As mentioned above, Azu is a very dangerous threat and so is Keldeo. I could see Drizzle it being a notable suspect in the future.

    Dragonite is on a similar vein with Salamence but bulkier due to Multiscale, making it have an easier time getting a DD boost. Not just that, but Dragonite also has Extreme Speed which makes it harder to revenge kill with faster threats at times.

    Hoopa-B is an absolute monster in this tier. The Choice Scarf with it great. That aside, I also find 4 attacks LO with Fury/ZHB/Drain Punch/Gunk cleaning several slow-paced teams on its own without much problems. It needs to go soon, if not now.

    Buzzwole, Mega Alakazam, and Weavile are other notable threats that could be discussed.

    Not much on P-Z and Kyu-B atm, gotta try them first.
    .
     
  7. La.Melle2402

    La.Melle2402 I'm the bone of my sword

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    We have SM UU now for some months on PS! Of course we wont have the same tiers here and on PS but we know from experience that some listed Pokemon are just too strong for the tier, for example Hoopa-B. We should quick ban it. Its a great wllbreaker, can kill defensive and spdefensive mons easily. Salamence is also too powerfull with dd + z-move.
    Also I just see Latios isn't banned. Hard to believe lol is this a mistake?

    Here is btw a list of drops from OU to UU that deserves to be mentioned:
    - Azumarill
    - Thundurus-T
    - Tornadus-T (is this really UU? lol)
    - Bisharp
    - Keldeo
    - Victini (was already UU but really strong)
    - Alakazam/Mega Alakazam
    - Clefable
    - Mew
    - Volcanion
    - Sylveon
    - Jirachi
    - Manaphy
    - Kyurem-B
    - Dragonite
    - Hoopa-U
    - Latios
    - Serperior
    - Terrakion
    - Weavile
    - Gliscor
    - Breloom
     
  8. LittleRoot

    LittleRoot Active Member

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    Ok so according to me,​
    Salamence is quite powerful now as introduction of Z-moves this generation and now it gets powerful Flying stab thanks to Flynium Z and Moxie, is great late game cleaner. Should be quick ban.​

    Dragonite is almost as same as Salamence with better bulk. Multiscale grants it set up easily if there are no rocks on the field. ​

    Kyurem-B is quite threatening as well. Great attack stat, wall breaking ability and an access of powerful Ice stab which could conver to Z-Move and a reliable recovery. Should be quick ban. ​

    Hoopa-B, Man idk how did this thing drop 160/170 offense is too much for UU tier and has natural special bulk. Could be used in various ways mixed LO/NP/TR or with Choiced items. A signature move which hits through protect. Ban this quickly​

    Weavile, Weavile has better stabs with great speed and can access stab knock off but could counterable as there are many good walls named Quagsire, Alolomola etc. Should be suspected after quick bans. ​

    Mega Alakazam, idk why is this in UU. It's doing quite well in OU atm. Gets perfect coverage, awesome speed and great special attack stat. Nothing much to say now ​

    Latios in UU :/ ​

    Scizor should drop to UU IMO. OU has great defensive mons to handle scizor and an introduction of psychic terrain, scizor is more restricted from using it's bullet spam. Guess we should try scizor in UU. ​

     
  9. Xdevo

    Xdevo The bear was upon Tom Tiering Administrator Tour Director Tiering Administrator Tour Director

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    Manaphy, Kyurem-B, Salamence, Dragonite, and Hoopa-Unbound are hereby quickbanned. Some suspects will be up shortly.
     
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  10. La.Melle2402

    La.Melle2402 I'm the bone of my sword

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    We dont seperate regular forms and their megas. Mega Scizor is OU, so regular one cant stay at UU iirc. not 100% sure
     
  11. Xdevo

    Xdevo The bear was upon Tom Tiering Administrator Tour Director Tiering Administrator Tour Director

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    Mega Beedrill and Mega Mawile are released, however Mega Mawile has also been quickbanned for the obvious reason.
     
  12. Valhalla

    Valhalla New Member

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    there needs to be a more sound way or banning mons in uu i think that suspecting is kind of slow and i want to start a movement where we have a uu semate such as the one that was in place during 2011 onward on smogon uu. i think that would have us ban things quicker, especially when it's necessary for a new tier such as sm uu
     
  13. Xdevo

    Xdevo The bear was upon Tom Tiering Administrator Tour Director Tiering Administrator Tour Director

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    OR people could actually fucking post in the suspects so I can pick leaders instead of overlording everything.


    But obviously the answer is to make a senate out of the 2 users that have posted and have them do the exact same thing I'm already doing slightly faster even though we've already banned 8 Pokemon in a month.
     
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  14. La.Melle2402

    La.Melle2402 I'm the bone of my sword

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    hi, im 50% of the users who posted
     
  15. Valhalla

    Valhalla New Member

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    Sorry it wasn't meant to be a shot at you, I just would rather there be more activity in this thread so we could have more varied opinions. I appreciate the job you do
     
  16. Xdevo

    Xdevo The bear was upon Tom Tiering Administrator Tour Director Tiering Administrator Tour Director

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    What's mega Zam's SpA?
     
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  17. E.T.

    E.T. Proud Member Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader

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    Proposing a quick ban / suspect for Medichamite. Mega Medicham doesn't really have any safe switch-ins apart from Doublade. The sheer power of its High Jump Kick is overwhelming for UU, but Mega Medicham also has STAB Zen Headbutt, the elemental punches, Fake Out, and Bullet Punch in its arsenal. Mega Medicham seems extremely toxic for SM UU, and I would love to see it leave ASAP.
     
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  18. fsk

    fsk Kept hacking Tier Leader Server Moderator Tier Leader Server Moderator

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    With the above possible moves E.T. has mentioned, there is literally so few generally reliable counters that can switch into it: Mega Slowbro (while normal Slowbro die to 2 Thunder Punch), Physically Defensive Mew, and Physically Defensive Reuniclus, together with Doublade. Except Doublade, all other mons still take a chunk from Thunder Punch/High Jump Kick and is forced to use recovery after the switch. In the current meta there are really few viable ghost type mons (Doublade is definitely not something you have a space to run on every team) so that High Jump Kick is generally spammable and does a chunk of damage even to the resists: Clef takes around 50% depending on the spread and just die to Zen if it dares to switch in.

    Indeed Mega Medicham is just overwhelming, even there exist quite some faster attackers generally one shot it (or with a little chip damage), pls quickban it as it renders slower playstyle unfairly bad overnight and restricts teambuilding to a great extent.
     
  19. Valhalla

    Valhalla New Member

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    Seconding everything said about Medicham-Mega. It interiorizes any Stall/BO/Semi-Stall play style as it just tears them apart and is too restricting.

    A quick ban is needed imo before the next week of POWC
     
  20. Xdevo

    Xdevo The bear was upon Tom Tiering Administrator Tour Director Tiering Administrator Tour Director

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    Medichamite is banned alongside Jirachi
     
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  21. E.T.

    E.T. Proud Member Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader Super Moderator Server Administrator Articles Leader

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    Proposing a Scolipede suspect after the current ones finish. Life Orb Scolipede is very problematic due to having access to Speed Boost. It can run Protect to be able to safely get a boost against offensive teams, or it can run Swords Dance to break through bulkier teams. Between Poison Jab and Megahorn as STAB moves and Earthquake or Aqua Tail for coverage, it can be difficult to switch into, and very difficult to revenge kill.
     
  22. Valhalla

    Valhalla New Member

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    From my testing, I also see Clefable being more of an issue now. It lost its main check in Jirachi which makes it more harder to beat as the CM set is lethal and also running coverage moves or status moves to cripple its "checks"
     
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