1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Cloudflare Security Issue - Change Your Passwords!

    Hello there, Guest!

    Cloudflare, the internet proxy we use to protect ourselves against DDoS and other malicious attacks, reported on 23rd February 2017 that they had patched a bug reported by Google's Project Zero that was exposing sensitive information in random requests, approximately 0.00003% of all requests, since September 2016.

    Whilst it is unlikely that any information has been leaked from this website, we recommend that all users change their passwords here on the Pokémon Online forums, as a precaution. Remember to use a unique and secure password for every site that requires one.

    We apologise for any inconvenience caused.

    Dismiss Notice

[POWC] Pokemon Online World Cup 2017 (Format)

Discussion in 'Official Tournaments' started by Xdevo, Mar 20, 2017 at 7:55 PM.

Moderators: Samphire
  1. Xdevo

    Xdevo The bear was upon Tom Tiering Administrator Tour Director Tiering Administrator Tour Director

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2010
    Messages:
    2,303
    Likes Received:
    1,300
    [​IMG]


    Potential Teams: Captain/Co-Captain

    Asia-Pacific: @TraceofLife (@gengar17)
    Brazil: @Eternal Spirit (@Echelon)
    Canada: @Genesis7
    European Union: @Kushalos (@Tony)
    China: @超夢夢 (@fsk)
    Italy: @Atli (@Coffe)
    Germany: @La.Melle2402 (@Mazar)
    Greece: @Rigas
    Spain: @Maestro (@Malekith)
    Latin America: Nightfox
    USA East: @Finchinator
    USA West-Central: @theurbandear
    UK + Northern Ireland: @Disaster Area (@Annoying Orange)

    Groups:

    Group A

    Asia-Pacific
    Brazil
    Italy
    Canada
    UK+NI / China
    USA West-Central


    Group B


    European Union
    Greece
    Germany / China
    Spain
    USA East
    Latin America



    Tiers
    SM OU x3
    SM Ubers
    SM UU
    SM LC
    ORAS OU
    BW OU
    DPP OU
    ADV OU
    GSC OU
    RBY OU

    Tournament Format:

    Qualification Stage:

    This is the first stage of the tournament. Every team will have to play all teams in their respective group in the span of 6-7 weeks. Beating another team gives you two points, drawing one point, and losing 0 points. In case of ties by the end of this stage, w/l ratio will be used as a tiebreaker; this means every match counts.

    Playoff Stage:

    Based on the preliminary stage, top 3 teams of each group will qualify to Playoffs. The format for these matches is the same as it was in the previous stage. In case of a tie (6-6), the winner will be decided by a BO3 series. The BO3 tiers are: SM OU / Tier picked by the team with the higher seed / Tier picked by the other team.

    For 6 team Playoffs
    Quarterfinals:

    - Group's A #1 gets a bye
    - Group's B #1 gets a bye
    - Group's A #2 vs Group's B #3
    - Group's B #2 vs Group's A #3

    Semifinals:

    - Group's A #1 vs (winner of Group's B #2 vs Group's A #3)
    - Group's B #1 vs (winner of Group's A #2 vs Group's B #3)


    The Tournament will progress in this format until there is only one team left standing.




    Signups will close on March 25th. The tour will start on March 27th. All rosters must be sent to me by the 26th.

    You can change a posted roster until the 26th.


    Since we have 13 teams mostly confirmed right now, the bottom teams will have to play the new team (China) for a spot in the tournament, how this will take place will be determined by the host and the captains, unless a new team appears magically.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 23, 2017 at 6:56 PM
    gengar17 and Joyverse like this.
  2. Rigas

    Rigas Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    477
    Likes Received:
    57
    I have two questions:

    1: Why force a tiebreaker instead of adjusting the tour format to fit the number of teams? The current format lasts 8 weeks, so in the same timespan you can do 5 weeks of Swiss + 3 weeks of single elimination instead of 5 weeks of round-robin + 3 weeks of single elimination. That way no team gets left out.

    2: Why not use seedings? This applies to both the current format and a hypothetical Swiss format. They can be based on last year's results, with new teams getting the lowest seeds.
     
  3. Xdevo

    Xdevo The bear was upon Tom Tiering Administrator Tour Director Tiering Administrator Tour Director

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2010
    Messages:
    2,303
    Likes Received:
    1,300
    1. The Swiss system would require me to do rankings between a round ending and the next one starting, which is a shitton of effort when combined with act wins. It also means that people won't know their opponent before sending in lineups, unless we start making 8 day "weeks."
    3 weeks of elimination means that you're going to be selecting at least 6 teams, and swiss makes telling the 3-8 places apart pretty meaningless without going into w/l records, something generally to be avoided in a luck based game like Pokemon
    We also have an uneven number of teams with means that byes will be needed, which also fucks the swiss system since it benefits the teams with the earlier byes, by giving them weaker opponents the entire round (since they'll have a better than average record)

    2. The teams aren't the same as last year so seeding by that is pretty much baseless for a RR tournament
     
  4. Rigas

    Rigas Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    477
    Likes Received:
    57
    1: I'm recommending 3 weeks of single elimination as it's the same with the current format. It'd be very simple: teams 1 - 2 qualify to semis and teams 3 - 6 to quarters. #3 & #6 play each other and the winner plays vs #2 while #4 & #5 play each other and the winner plays vs #1.

    You won't have to go into W/L records for tiebreakers. This is Swiss. The main tiebreakers are head-to-head and Bucholtz. And while head-to-head only applies if all the tied teams playing against each other, Bucholtz always applies, so this isn't going to be a problem.

    I don't understand what you mean by saying that teams getting byes would give them weaker opponents. A bye counts as a win, and a win means you get to play against stronger opposition next round, that's how the system works.

    If you think the workload will be too much to process in time every time, I'm willing to lend a hand of assistance.

    2: Teams generally don't stay the same between different editions of various team tournaments, but obviously, that doesn't mean no team tournament in the world uses seedings. It won't be baseless at all. If a team played last year, seed them based on those results. Seedings not only help create a more competitive playing field, but also provide an extra motivation. We've seen tournaments were teams that are doing badly stop caring and practically give up. If they know that this is going to come back to bite them next year in the form of a more difficult group draw, they'll be more inclined to give it their all until the end.
     
    Joyverse likes this.
  5. Xdevo

    Xdevo The bear was upon Tom Tiering Administrator Tour Director Tiering Administrator Tour Director

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2010
    Messages:
    2,303
    Likes Received:
    1,300
    We're obviously going to have a bunch of ties when we only have 5 rounds. For three week playoffs, we're taking the top 6 (or 8), Swiss is terrible at ordering a middle set, especially when only given 5 weeks and when you're taking about half of teams, it's terrible.

    If we're not using the speedy system for a swiss tour, then we're going to have to deal with swiss gambit strategies, which is what the bye situation was talking about. Even then, that just benefits the people with the latter bye.

    In general though, the swiss system is terrible when you're dealing with a luck based game like Pokemon.

    I'm not letting a captain have a huge hand in the match ups, for the very, very obvious reason.


    A seed system won't encourage anyone to play more or better. There's no draft, and there are only 2 groups. It also will be completely irrelevant for people that don't care about next year (which is probably the same people that don't care this year).
     
  6. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Badged Deucer

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    Messages:
    605
    Likes Received:
    183
    PO Trainer Name:
    Disaster Area
    Could it make sense to have a 7-team pool and a 6-team pool?
     
  7. Rigas

    Rigas Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    477
    Likes Received:
    57
    Of course we are going to have ties, but as I said earlier, the Bucholtz tiebreaker exists. Ties are not a problem.

    If a team actually wants to pull a swiss gambit, it's their decision. It's something that's way too risky (especially with only 5 rounds) and I don't think we can actually consider it a deterrent to using the swiss format.

    There's no basis to that. The fact that the game has luck in it doesn't mean Swiss format is unsuitable for it, there's no connection between these two things. Besides, even official Pokemon tournaments use the Swiss format.

    You seem to be mistaken about how swiss match-ups work. It's not a matter of taking decisions, not something that can be "affected". There's a very clear process to swiss matchups. If two people both know how to the Swiss system works, they are going to come out with the exact same match-ups. There's no "obvious reason" here. It would only help speed the process up.

    There will be at least some people who care, and those people will be motivated. And besides, regardless of that, seedings help create a more competitive playing field.

    --- Post updated ---
    Really difficult. A 7 team group would need 7 rounds to finish, while a 6 team group needs 5 rounds. This 2 round disparity would be a problem. Besides the fact that the tournament would have to last further than the current intended duration, teams in the 6 team group would have an easier time due to less competition and a lighter schedule in the group phase.
     
  8. Xdevo

    Xdevo The bear was upon Tom Tiering Administrator Tour Director Tiering Administrator Tour Director

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2010
    Messages:
    2,303
    Likes Received:
    1,300
    Well, I was going to make a long reply, but exited the wrong tab apparently so fuck that.


    I'm not going to do a swiss system for this. Swiss's benefits at 13 players are marginal at best, and it introduces a bunch of issues and effort that I'm not going to deal with.

    I'm also not going to do seeding, since we literally had 2 sets of 4 teams last year with the same # of points, and the W/L of a luck based game is very unfair, especially when later rounds can be distorted by act wins. Seeding doesn't help make anyone stay involved anymore than simply choosing somewhat balanced groups would.
     
  9. Rigas

    Rigas Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    477
    Likes Received:
    57
    I don't think there's a point in publicly continuing this conversation at the current time. Maybe when the tournament is over, we can open this subject again and try to figure out how to perfect the format for next year.
     
Moderators: Samphire