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[BW2] UU Future suspects

Discussion in 'Gen 5 UU' started by Galblade, Jan 24, 2011.

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  1. T-Dogg

    T-Dogg Member

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    IIRC, we're not jumping straight to banning yet, we just want a suspect test. Is that really so wrong?
     
  2. fidgety

    fidgety Active Member

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    ok, here is my 2 cents:

    luke:able 2 deal serious damage from + boost on either or both sides of physical/special spectrum, great typing, good speed, + great movepool. definite suspect.

    cune:i'll be honest i love this thing to death, nice speed for a poke with a defensive build, + enough special attack to run an effective offensive calm mind set, this thing is as always a highly effective pokemon straight across the board with the exception of physical attacking but that hardly matter from cune, however as things stand it is easily enough walled by major walls such as chancey who only takes like 15% from a +1 surf that it isn't too much of a priority suspect @ the moment imo. future suspect but not yet.

    kyurem: ok i don't even think i need to do more than say this thing is an absolute beast 130/130/95 offenses +125/90/90 defenses with that movepool. TOP PRIORITY SUSPECT.

    birijion: not sure bout this 1 in all honesty as i haven't seen it in action as much so idk.

    gatr:for now it can stay altho personally it will definitely be an absolute beast once it get's it's dw ability.

    chancey:good luck getting through this thing w/o a strong physical/mixed attacker or a trick poke, as mentioned earlier it flat out laughs @ cune which says alot. either we ban this thing or the evolution stone (don't even try this 1 unless more suspects 4 it show their faces).

    cress: oh god here we go over effective mixed wall thank god i haven't had to face it much as of yet but if luke + kyurem go this thing + chancey r going 2 be such b******.priority suspect.

    deoxys-d:another double wall 50/160/160 w/ recover @ least cress was limited to either moonlight or restalking for recovery, knock off/spikes/rocks/t-spikes(i think)/magic coat/taunt the list goes on + on. proirity suspect.

    deoxys-s:this thing is so damn good @ it's job i'm still trying to figure out how it is uu to begin with (admitedly i don't care as i'm abusing the crap out of it anyway). priority suspect.

    wobb:free ko against a choice poke free setup 4 a sweeper altho it was hurt by the debuff to encore but just the same. suspect.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 3, 2011
  3. coyotte508

    coyotte508 Well-Known Member Administrator Server Owner Administrator Server Owner

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    Fidgety your post is impossible to read can your format it better?
     
  4. upstart

    upstart New Member

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    I am not arguing that chansey shouldn't be a suspect as I can understand the logic behind it however I was posting that to give information as gallblade had stated that even Terakion required both stealth rock and spikes to KO chansey
     
  5. Ferrothorn

    Ferrothorn New Member

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    Chansey is the only wall, I believe, that should be considered suspect. It is just too great at walling.

    Plus, there's still taunt.

    As for offensive threats, Feraligatr isn't that big of a deal, Lucario, Suicune and Kyuremu should be definitely tested. I'm not so sure about the others.

    Wobbuffet is the only other pokemon that should be suspect in my opinion.
     
  6. twofivefive

    twofivefive don't call it a comeback

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    Add Ninjask cos Ninjask is pro. All right, I'm kidding, but I seriously lol'd when I saw Ninjask in UU. It's such a good support Pokemon that it really should go back to OU. Blaziken is far slower and isn't immune to Toxic Spikes, and can't pass Subs and Attack boosts as well.
     
  7. CrashinBoomBang

    CrashinBoomBang :{|}

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    The problem with "going back to OU" is that OU, as the name implies, is based on Usage. So, unless people feel like using Ninjask so it gets 4.0%+ usage, he'll stay in BL(lol) or below.
     
  8. twofivefive

    twofivefive don't call it a comeback

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    True... but Ninjask's position in UU (#157) makes him like NU status, right? He's around the same position in UU as in OU, but in Ubers he's #21 in usage. That should be considered.
     
  9. Noog

    Noog So much potential...

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    Wobbuffett probably isn't used because of the same reason why most Deoxys formes and some of the lesser Ubers were in UU for a time being -- people aren't used to them being UU. Plus, it's rather underrated in my opinion.

    Wobbuffett can counter just about any Choiced Pokémon with Shadow Tag, Counter and Mirror Coat. It can stop attempts to set up with Encore, and cripple things with Tickle. Both offensive (especially Choiced ones) and defensive (preferably something that isn't too bulky) are effectively revenge killed or stopped by Wobbuffett. Something hit by a powerful Pursuit at -3 Defense will likely have a hard time switching in, especially if there are hazards laying around.
     
  10. Ice-eyes

    Ice-eyes Member

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    I'm going to weigh in here. Personally I think most of these pokes warrant Suspect status simply because there's a big voice suggesting they should be banned. Whether they should or not is another matter.


    ok, here is my 2 cents:

    luke:able 2 deal serious damage from + boost on either or both sides of physical/special spectrum, great typing, good speed, + great movepool. definite suspect.

    cune:i'll be honest i love this thing to death, nice speed for a poke with a defensive build, + enough special attack to run an effective offensive calm mind set, this thing is as always a highly effective pokemon straight across the board with the exception of physical attacking but that hardly matter from cune, however as things stand it is easily enough walled by major walls such as chancey who only takes like 15% from a +1 surf that it isn't too much of a priority suspect @ the moment imo. future suspect but not yet.

    Kyurem. Oh, Kyurem. HEY GAIZ LOOK AT ITS MASSIVE STATS IT MUST BE BROKEN. Not the right line of argument. However, while it's relatively slow and held back by its appalling typing, it doesn't have many viable checks and there's definitely a very strong case for its ban.

    Birijion is strong, especially now Latias is gone, but it can definitely be walled and relying on Focus Blast sucks. It definitely deserves a full discussion, though.

    Chansey? Well, most physical attackers can punch through it, and its very limited offensive capabilities mean it is not only predictable but will always have good switchins.

    Question about the Psychic walls is: are they proving to be too much for the metagame? Is the metagame becoming filled with Cress / Deo-D stall teams? They're not impossible to take down with a little smart play and some consideration while teambuilding, but is that enough?

    Wobbuffet isn't used enough for anyone to have a valid opinion of it without having used it. It struggles to set stuff up with Encore the way it is; the main use of it is killing stuff, especially Scarf users. Is taking out a single mon before going down justification for banning? Maybe if it was a major problem and an influence in the metagame.


    The difference between Blaziken and Ninjask is that Blaziken is actually threatening. It can force stuff out and set up boosts, it's less predictable, and it has fewer good switch-ins due to actually being able to smack most phazers really hard. It also doesn't get annihilated by Stealth Rock.
     
  11. Galblade

    Galblade FAT PRINCESS

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    Picking the lucario set is what makes him hard to counter. both NP and SD both work in UU and only Cresselia has a chance against both (though I think she is still 2HKOd +2 on either set anyway). If you guess wrong, you easily allow them another turn set up, and almost a free sweep of your team.

    Edit: I have to disagree on the Chansey point. CB Azumarill barely 2HKOs chansey with Waterfall unless there's SR on the field. Everyone knows how powerful Azu is.

    It basically takes an STAB fighting attack of 150 power or more to OHKO chansey from a base Attack stat higher than 120 with LO (expert belt isn't enough unless you're named Terakion). Sure it won't be used as a physical wall any time soon. But unless you are packing a strong enough pokemon (that can actually be trapped by Gochi as they attack) Chansey can wall anything as long as Tspikes aren't on the field.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2011
  12. User Name

    User Name Life is a maze

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    Most of the time, a 2HKO is fine for Chansey. It's rock-slow, so it won't be able to heal before the second hit. :P
    A 2HKO "only" takes 120 Base Atk w/Adamant and 252 Atk for Standard 252 HP/252 Def/Bold, without an item.
    Escavalier cannot 2HKO with Megahorn w/Adamant+252 Atk with no boosting item, though, and that's quite a feat; 135 base Atk with a 120 STAB Attack is pretty amazing. Chansey's normal typing, while not providing it with any resistances aside from Ghost, does give it only 1 weakness, and if you're not hitting that weakness, you're probably not KOing.
    Even if you are hitting that weakness, you'll need quite a few boosts to finally take it out. Starraptor w/Choice Band Adamant 252 Atk only has a chance of KOing with Rocks. That's 120 base Atk with the highest boosts it can possibly get. Sure, you can 2HKO, but chances are Chansey will have switched out by then or healed itself with Wish+Protect.
    However, if you let it setup a Wish before you strike, then you may have some problems.
    T-Wave makes it harder too, though most run Toxic.

    T-Spikes isn't a problem for many Chansey due to them running Heal Bell, TBH.
     
  13. Mister Test Team

    Mister Test Team New Member

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    Hello. Ladies and Gentlemen... I give you: my opnion.


    Lucario - Suspect: Swords Dance or Nasty Plot... you never know. Well, it doesn't matter. There is no succesfull counter to neither SD/NP. I faced like 15 Lucarios, and not even one time I survived. The only times that Lucario fainted, was because of this Life Orb and a priority move of mine. I have to say, my pokes are not too fast. But I don't think that the speed will make a difference for a good Lucario Counter in UU.

    Birijion - Not Suspect: He wasn't a threat to me, ever. I played with like, 40 different pokes (and many have been there when I encountered a Birijion) in UU. Maybe I was lucky, but he never did enough for me to think of him as a suspect.

    Feraligatr - I don't know: A quick switch to a bulky water or a burn status always saved me againts him. But all the Feraligatrs I've faced used Dragon Dance instead of Swords Dance. I don't know if that matters. Maybe, if they had a +2 or +4 Atk instead of +1 Atk +1 Spd.... I don't really know.

    Terakion - Suspect: He's a beast. Awesome speed, Excelent Attack, and enough HP and defenses to survive almost any attacking moves in UU. TOO hard to get a OHKO against Terakion, and with only 1 Swords Dance he can sweep your whole team.

    Kyuremu - No Opinion - The only three times i fought a Kyuremu in UU was in low ladder positions. Three times only... I can't say anything.



    If there are mistakes in my english, I'm sorry. It's not my native language and I'm trying my best :p
     
  14. yiran

    yiran Become a Magical Girl!

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    Lucario: No. Simple reason - it's speed. It isn't fast enough to do serious damage, and although it has plenty of resistances, its weaknesses are absolutely horrible. It's priorities are walled by Ghosts, despite having Shadow Ball, so a Mismagius with the right hidden power can kill off Lucario fairly easily. Also simply bulky pokemon can wall it - its attacks are not THAT high. For example, Crobat can easily wall it as it has good enough defenses and Brave Bird him off. Other poison pokemon also work fairly well.

    Suicune: No. Roserade, Jaroda, Denchura, etc. If your team doesn't carry a grass pokemon or electric pokemon its your problem, not Suicune's. Sleep Talk is extremely unreliable. Oh, and water absorb pokemon. Plus Chansey.

    Kyuremu: Actually I don't think it's that broken, but it should be suspect. It has a wide moveset and great offense stats, with enough bulk to withstand super effective attacks. The only let down is speed, which isn't that much of a problem, as Kyuremu is bulky enough to survive a previous move on it.

    Birijion: Walled by poison pokemon to the death. Swords dance set may be better, but flying isn't actually that rare in UU.

    Feraligatr: Very balanced. Encourage sure does a lot of damage, but Feraligatr needs more type coverage. To be honest, I haven't faced much of these, so I can't really say. The Dances may be annoying but you can always phaze, or just kill it with sheer power.

    Chansey: At first, I wanted this to go away. Then, I realised it wasn't that bad. Fighting types here don't get much love due to the fact of baton pass psycho boosters, but Chansey attracts their attention again. Lucario, Terakion, Mienshao (I still rather call it Kojondo), Zuruzukin, Hitmontop, etc. can kill Chansey fairly easily, although they may absorb a Thunder Wave in the process. Still, this should be at least tested, although I'd recon that Chansey keeps balance.

    Cresselia: Never faced any. Never used any.

    Deoxys-D: Faced twice, wasn't that annoying. Set up some entry hazards but my team didn't really care about it. Not much else to say.

    Wobbuffet: Same as Cresselia, but the usage shouldn't be a problem anyways.

    Oh, and UU isn't terrible to play.

    I also want to bring up another suspect: Aianto. Great late game sweeper. Its base speed trolls Terakion, Denchura (exceeding by 1 point), and provided you've eliminated the opponent's fire type it's very hard to deal with. Claw Sharpen is not to be underestimated. It can be brought down if you leave a Fire type to last though (it has to be fast enough or have choice scarf.)

    Terakion is not suspect. Aianto kills it, Milotic kills it, etc. Ghosts wall it quite well (Goruugo).
     
  15. Aurist

    Aurist I do not jump for joy. I frolic in doubt.

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    Interesting thought. After +1 aianto tends to ohko goddamn everything. The problem is getting to that +1. Aianto isn't taking special hits at all, especially considering CS set often runs LO. Fire types really aren't too much of a problem as (93% accurate) Stone Edge destroys basically all of them. I'm really not sure it's worth suspecting though. Steels completely wall the thing, especially Kobaruon.
     
  16. VuvuzelaΒzz

    VuvuzelaΒzz •Sage

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    Yeah, Aianto isn't worth suspecting. It's a great Sweeper once steels and scarfed Fire-types are gone, but there's way too many Steel Types capable of walling it to call it broken, and those steel types are viable. Steelix, Kobauron and Registeel are all capable of stopping it's sweep. If Aianto gets close Combat in "Grey" we can discuss banning it.
     
  17. Noog

    Noog So much potential...

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    Actually, to OHKO Chansey with Close Combat and a Life Orb, you need at least 121 base Attack and a STAB Fighting-type move. Hi Jump Kick usually results in losing 12.5% HP on the first turn, then another 50% chance to lose another 12.5% HP on the next turn if predicted. Why? Protect.

    Plus, what Chansey is going to stay in on a physical Fighting-type?
     
  18. Galblade

    Galblade FAT PRINCESS

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    I don't think LO Emboar OHKOs with hammer arm. I still think it needs to use the crippling superpower.
     
  19. yiran

    yiran Become a Magical Girl!

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    Chansey doesn't need to be OHKO'd. It's specifically designed to take hits, and around 70% damage output on Chansey is good enough for me.
     
  20. twofivefive

    twofivefive don't call it a comeback

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    Chansey always tries to take my Clefable's Water Pulse, and always ends up on the wrong side of a Toxic Orb Trick. After that, my Kyurem sorts it out with Dragon Tail.
     
  21. yiran

    yiran Become a Magical Girl!

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    I either have a Chansey, or pack 2 fighting pokemon to get rid of it.

    Scarf Medicham is really scary...
     
  22. Archerknight

    Archerknight Legends

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    I'm now thinking of Shubarugo. It has brilliant typing, STAB Megahorn from a 405Atk stat, and has a decent movepool.

    It's steel type gives it immunity from Toxic, which is very useful in UU. It can Swords Dance that Atk stat to 810! whilst under a substitute too.

    It resists a lot and can avoid burn with Subsitute. It can also use knock off.

    What do you think about it?
     
  23. Shadowheart

    Shadowheart Free Hitmonlee

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    Problem with shubaruugo is it can't get past Steel Types and is basically magnezone bait. Best it has is rock smash.
     
  24. Aurist

    Aurist I do not jump for joy. I frolic in doubt.

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    not to mention that alongside that typing it has 70/105/105 defenses. that 20 speed is probably enough for it not to be banned though, in all honesty. It is pretty walled by steels, though I'd say Reversal is a lot better for it than Rock Smash as it can take a pretty large amount of hits. Is it OHKOed by HP Fire from magnezone? if not, magnezone is fucked.

    EDIT

    is it just me, or is Raikou looking more and more broken by the day?
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2011
  25. Ashton Michaels

    Ashton Michaels Member

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    Suicune: With Water Absorb this things is an excellent edition to every UU team. Chansey isn't really a wall, since Suicune can set up on it and continue to sweep a team. It's not as dangerous right away like Kyurem, but it has the potential to be a real threat with even one CM under it's belt. I do think that Kyurem should be tested before Suicune, since it's so much more dangerous.

    Kyurem: This thing should be a suspect. There is not a single Pokemon in UU who can safely switch in on this Pokemon. Chansey can be set up on with the Sub + Claw Sharpen set, and Registeel is 2HKO'd by Focus Blast coming from a Modest Life Orb'd Kyurem. This thing is too powerful for UU with Draco Meteor, easily OHKO'ing alot of Pokemon that are neutral to it, and even Pokemon that resist it get 2HKO'd or OHKO'd, with the exception of the aforementioned Registeel, who is 2HKO'd by Focus Blast.

    Looking away from Kyurem's amazing offensive stats, it also posseses a huge base HP stat, coupled with good defensive stats. This means that it can easily live through attack it is weak to like Mach Punch from Hitmontop, and his HP makes sure Chansey can't break it's substitutes.

    Feraligatr: Feraligatr is a very dangeroús that can OHKO or 2HKO even the bulkiest walls in UU after a SD or Dragon Dance thanks to his DW ability. I must say that there are quite some things that can come in and kill him if they can outspeed him after a SD or DD (which you need scarf for if it has DD). Things like Rotom-W can do this job really well though, so for now I wouldnt say it's a suspect.

    Chansey: Chansey is a good special wall, and set-up fodder for tons of UU Pokemon. Not much to say about her, since she does what she always does, which is walling special hits. Not a suspect.
     
  26. Aurist

    Aurist I do not jump for joy. I frolic in doubt.

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    I really think that people are overrating Suicune massively. It doesn't take that many hits, and it's rarely if ever been a threat to me, and quite frankly I'm not a great player. Slowbro is a more dangerous CMer overall thanks to Regeneration and a better typing offensively (and higher SpAtk), and more resists (though a couple more weaknesses). Suicune gets Roar over it though. Suicune has had almost exactly the same movepool since Gen II and it's way too easy to deal with to be suspected purely because it's been an OU pokemon for a long time.
     
  27. Kibago

    Kibago New Member

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    I don't have any strong impressions, but I definitely disagree with Suicune - I don't particularly like seeing him on the other team but he's not broken. Nidoking is probably the main guy I'd say deserves a suspect test on sheer power alone - my team is admittedly weak to it, but it OHKOs and 2HKOs a ridiculous percentage of the tier with boosted attacks and exceptional coverage.

    other then him, I'm very satisfied with the tier.
     
  28. fidgety

    fidgety Active Member

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    i honestly though cune would rock uu but with chansey eating everything and taking nothing from it it was a pain to use lax is likely going to replace chansey in that department but less op.

    and encourage king can't beat most special walls.
     
  29. Pokemonwizard

    Pokemonwizard Banned

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    Lucario- Suspect
    Suicune- Suspect
    Kyurem- Not Suspect
    Birijion- Suspect
    Feraligatr- Suspect

    Chansey- Suspect
    Cresselia- Suspect
    Deoxys-D- Not Suspect

    Deoxys-S - Not Suspect
    Wobbuffet- Suspect
     
  30. Aurist

    Aurist I do not jump for joy. I frolic in doubt.

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    you need to pay a LOT more attention here. Kyurem and Deoxys-S are banned already. Chansey is banned for a month testing period.

    The only thing i'm certain should be suspected right now is Cresselia.
     
  31. Halsey

    Halsey Wildstar

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    Closing this thread because we are focusing only on Chansey in this month.

    Follow this link for more information.
     
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