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[BW2] Making Clear Skies a Wifi Tier

Discussion in 'Gen 5 Side Metagames' started by Xdevo, Sep 22, 2011.

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Should unreleased DW abilities be removed from Clear Skies?

  1. Yes, they should be removed.

    46.8%
  2. No, they should not be removed.

    53.2%
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  1. Xdevo

    Xdevo Time's Arrow Keeps Marching On Super Moderator Tour Director Super Moderator Tour Director

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    Well, a number of players on the server have complained about how Clear Skies has abilities (and Pokemon) that aren't released, Should un-released Dream World abilities be removed from Clear Skies?

    Please remember that what is the best for one's team is not what is best for the Metagame.
     
  2. DTC

    DTC Member

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    Personally, I don't see anything wrong with allowing unreleased dream world abilities and unreleased pokemon. This is already a "test" metagame as it is. I think it adds more options in the tier and makes it a little more enjoyable. However, if we want to see what the BW metagame would be like if it was basically OU without weather and nothing else is changed then we should make Clear Skies a Wifi tier.

    So, I don't mind either way. I'd rather the unreleased stuff stay in the tier as it adds a little more options and it isn't really hurting anything but if a lot of people are complaining about the unreleased stuff and/or we want Clear Skies to be basically BW without weather, then I will agree on Clear Skies becoming a Wifi tier.
     
  3. Django

    Django UNCHAINED

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    The way I see it, Wifi has a larger and /better/ player base, and atm we need to attract as many players as possible to Clear Skies, and making it a Wifi Tier could be a draw for some people. The more players the better, so lets go for Wifi.
     
  4. mibuchiha

    mibuchiha Was yea ra chs ieeya.

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    The way I see it, Wifi has more players because more prefer the Wifi Clause. Since that is already added, maybe we should let some time pass and see if the tier gets more players first?
     
  5. Xdevo

    Xdevo Time's Arrow Keeps Marching On Super Moderator Tour Director Super Moderator Tour Director

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    According to the large number of rants all over the place, most people prefer Wifi beucase it exists.
     
  6. Fate/Dracoflare

    Fate/Dracoflare Kayneth Fried Circuits

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    Oh god I am the only one who vote option 2 ....
     
  7. PichiTheShinyPichu

    PichiTheShinyPichu I'm not amused

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    Not any more. :x
     
  8. Hobbes15

    Hobbes15 New Member

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    I don't see the problem with leaving unreleased DW abilities and I hardly ever play clear skies, wifi clause is enough IMO. I think it's fairer to have a balance between Wifi and DW by keeping the abilities while implementing Wifi clause, there's no need to show extreme favoritism to one or the other, especially if PO is serious when it says "Wifi is not standard." DW is just as much a tier, and a ton of people play both, and I think the tier is better and more varied w/ DW abilities and pokes than it would otherwise be
     
  9. Burnin'Red

    Burnin'Red Official Cookie Stealer

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    No, they should stay, honestly guys, first you ban 2 of the best Pokemon, then you implement the Wifi Clause in it and now you want to ban more Pokemon? =/
    The sole reason why I liked this tier was because of the absence of weather and with the use of DW Pokemon (Keldeo, Genesect etc.)

    Not everybody wants it to be more and more like Wifi, you know. :(
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2011
  10. T-Dogg

    T-Dogg Member

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    Idea to please both parties: Wifi Clear Skies and DW Clear Skies.
     
  11. 114

    114 Guest

    Clear Skies is an unofficial tier as it is, so why get rid of pokemon/abilities that will inevitably be released? No need to make an unofficial tier more official and at the same time limit user fun.

    @Above, Separating CS to DW and Wifi would separate the small playerbase to an even smaller one.
     
  12. Xdevo

    Xdevo Time's Arrow Keeps Marching On Super Moderator Tour Director Super Moderator Tour Director

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    Clear Skies is no less official than OU, both have bans that Nintendo doesn't have. The only difference is that Clear Skies banned all auto-inducing abilities too. If we wanted our metagames to be "official," we would only play GBU or VGC.
     
  13. Bamarah

    Bamarah "Baton Pass Elite"

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    I voted No on the sole basis that Clear Skies is not an official tier according to Nintendo. Whether it will become 1 is anybody's guess but I do enjoy playing it. So I agree with T-Dogg on the separation of the Clear Skies tier to DW CS & Wifi CS as we won't lose anything by doing so.
     
  14. monferno

    monferno blazing

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    Dream World sucks. I would play Clear SKies if it was Wifi.

    neither is uu, lu, nu
     
  15. Django

    Django UNCHAINED

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    We will not be splitting up the tier into Wifi and DW. The playerbase is tiny enough as it is.

    This is why were having a poll, nothing has been decided yet.
     
  16. ASH_CHAMPION

    ASH_CHAMPION A very useless person~

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    The main factor is we need more players for Clear Skies. And from what I have seen, making it Wifi will make this happen. Although I myself am half hearted about it, but if it means the rise in popularity, then so be it :(
     
  17. Drigger

    Drigger Fabula Nova Crystallis

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    Wifi Clause is more than enough in Clear Skies its not an official tier. I'm for Team Preview + Dream World Abilities.

    If you can see the opposing team you obviously know which Pokemon will probably have what abilities its not rocket science! Why are Clear Skies battlers even complaining? The tier was Dream World from the very inception ._.
     
  18. profDEADPOOL

    profDEADPOOL INSANE Professer

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    i only like playing dream world tiers so i will drop clear skies if this happens. IMO dw just makes it more fun. and the guessing on abilities would stay even in wifi cause most pokemon still have at least two abilities they can legally use.
     
  19. Groudon Ramsay

    Groudon Ramsay Active Member

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    This.

    I still don't understand how people can be okay with allowing unreleased stuff to exist. Not once in the history of Pokemon has this happened, why are we purposely breaking precedent? The WiFi playerbase is bigger and much, much more skilled, simply due to the fact that WiFi is the accepted standard, despite what some of you may think.
     
  20. HeroOfSinnoh

    HeroOfSinnoh Banned

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  21. Yuki Nagato

    Yuki Nagato Member

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  22. Crystal Moogle

    Crystal Moogle Ayaya~

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    Yeah, splitting it up wouldn't work at all. I mean look at where DW RU is right now.
     
  23. fidgety

    fidgety Active Member

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    the issue with removing dream world from clear skies is that Tar, Hippo, and Abomasnow cannot be used as the only option they have other than their weather starting ability is their DW one and while Abomasnow won't be worth much, Hippowdon is still a solid physical Wall and Tar has 4 other Sets that it can use that would be valuable in CS.
     
  24. Xdevo

    Xdevo Time's Arrow Keeps Marching On Super Moderator Tour Director Super Moderator Tour Director

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    No metagame here is official in Nintendo's eyes; not Wifi or DW OU, not Smogon's OU, not PBC's OU. Nintendo's recognition of a tier as an official WILL NOT HAPPEN, nintendo either barely knows about this iste, or doesn't care.
     
  25. 114

    114 Guest

    You can't argue CS is just as official as Wifi OU. It simply isn't. When people play competitively, they go to OU, a tier system that has been effect for awhile. Adding Wifi pokemon to CS is just trying to make a completely unofficial tier (seriously, CS is as official as metronome) more official and taking away options from users (which, by the way will one day be released). l
     
  26. Weiss

    Weiss Member

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    We can have a DW Clear skies and Wifi clear skies IMO. The DW one obviously removing wifi clause. There's a bazillion unplayed tiers anyway, one or two more won't hurt anything <_<
     
  27. DTC

    DTC Member

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    But the thing is we WANT clear skies to be played more, one of the reasons the tier leaders are thinking of making it a wifi tier is there is more interest. We'd just be splitting the small playerbase if we made a DW Clear Skies tier and a Wifi one, like other people have said.
     
  28. PichiTheShinyPichu

    PichiTheShinyPichu I'm not amused

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    Well, DW LU (or RU) was once there, now it's gone because practically no one played it. Unlike that, Clear Skies actually has a respectable player base, so again, splitting it up would NOT be a good idea like the others said.

    The way I see it, Clear Skies is more of an "experimental" tier, and as such, should keep the Dream World abilities, but keep the Wifi Clause as well.
     
  29. Xdevo

    Xdevo Time's Arrow Keeps Marching On Super Moderator Tour Director Super Moderator Tour Director

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    NOTHING HERE IS OFFICIAL. NINTENDO SPONSERS NONE OF THIS.

    If you are trying to say supported, then Clear Skies is now supported just as all of the other tiers are. Adding Wifi makes the tier more likely to attract better players, I'm going to be offensive, but DW doesn't attract nearly the skilled playerbase that Wifi does. I want this tier to develope with skilled players playing A REAL TIER.

    Also, we have no idea if all of the abilities will be released, we have no idea with what restritions they will be released and we have no idea what these releases will entail. There is no logical reason for any supported metagame to allow unreleased abilities inside itself.
     
  30. Groudon Ramsay

    Groudon Ramsay Active Member

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    You can't argue DW is just as official as WiFi. It simply isn't. When people play competitively, they go to WiFi, a tier system that has been in effect for a while*. Removing unreleased DW stuff from CS is just trying to make a completely unofficial tier (seriously, CS is as official as DW) more official and taking away options from users (which, by the way, aren't released yet).

    * Again, playing with unreleased stuff is unprecedented. DW tiers only exist because of one person's whimsical decisionmaking, and it is due to the fact that this certain important person prefers DW to WiFi that CS was made a DW tier in the first place. So really, this argument shouldn't even be happening.
     
  31. Noog

    Noog So much potential...

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    Neither CS nor OU is actually official; only GBU and VGC are supported by Nintendo. And if anything, DW is actually less official than WiFi, since at least WiFi uses things that Nintendo has released. Furthermore, people can only play WiFi on their cartridges, as there is no way to obtain unreleased Pokémon without hacking, which most people refuse to do.

    I think unreleased Pokémon should be removed, then, if enough people play, it could get split into DW and Wifi Clear Skies.
     
  32. 114

    114 Guest

    Yes. DW is not as official as Wifi. But no, it was not made because of one person's whimsical decision making. It is here because it should represent the future of the metagame (when everything is released). DW abilities are coded into the game. Not for shits and giggles.

    Then why do people go to smogon/PO instead of the other servers? The answer: our OU/UU are more "official."

    Adding Wifi Clause was a good idea because yes, the "skilled" players play something more official. What I don't understand is how removing DW abilities makes it more attractive. Weather pokes are gone, so the tier is not like Wifi at all (so if you're trying to make this tier more like Wifi OU, it's pointless). Instead, you're going to slowly add pokemon/abilities to this fake metagame until all of them are released? You can add them all now, and that will be that. And Nintendo will be releasing at least 99% of the DW abilities, as around 25% (give or take whatever, I just guessed) are already released. There's no credibility to the "We don't know if nintendo will release all of the abilities" idea; the abilities are coded into the game for a reason.
     
  33. T-Dogg

    T-Dogg Member

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    And you know this for a fact, do you?
     
  34. Burnin'Red

    Burnin'Red Official Cookie Stealer

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    So you're saying nobody "pro" plays Clear Skies? Before the forums even started discussing CS, the maximum number of players was 250-300, later on when the server's welcome message informed people about CS, the total number of players increased to 700, in just a week.
    How do you expect the tier to have players if they don't even know it exists?

    As for removing the Pokemon with unreleased abilities, the tier is already perfect(yes, I am saying perfect) with them.
    Have a look at the statistics: http://stats.pokemon-online.eu/Clear Skies/index.html

    Why do keep on saying that DW OU doesn't have good players? DW OU has it's fair share of pro battlers.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2011
  35. Ozma

    Ozma Grunt in the machine

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    I'm voting no. I'd prefer Clear Skies remain as a DW tier. What advantage is there to Wifi? Will more people notice it is we do? I wouldn't think so.

    Eventually all the abilities will be released anyway, we know they're there - so why hide them?

    Burnin'Red topped the ladder so he obviously took more time learning the tier and actually playing it. So I'd put his decision first.
     
  36. Django

    Django UNCHAINED

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    400 people did not come to the server to play Clear Skies. That is just rediculous.

    So there is no need for me or xdevo14 to bother with any of this? Why were you all crying out for tier leaders a few weeks ago then? And what do the statistics even show lol.
    One thing they do point out to me is that the tier needs help. 302 battles. It needs more players, and it needs them now, or else it will become a fully dead tier. Making this a Wifi tier will attract many new players.

    The fact is more people play Wifi (Look at the number of people who qualified for the Thundurus vote), and in general the playerbase is more skilled. Yes of course DW has a few good players, but the number in Wifi is much, much larger.

    @Ozma
    Some people have already stated in this thread they would play Clear Skies if it was a Wifi tier. And all of us here have played and learnt the tier, were not just talking out of our arses.

    One last thing:

    Ok 114. Every single metagame apart from VGC and GBU is as "official" as metronome. Congrats. Wifi tiers are inherently more official than Dream World tiers because you can physically play them on a DS. You might be able to do that eventually with DW, but why on earth playing with something that is not in the game has gathered such a massive fanbase is beyond me. It has never happened before and there is no reason apart from "I prefer it" for these being in Clear Skies.
     
  37. marmoteo

    marmoteo Member

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    I am personally very neutral on the matter. I don't think the whole 'it's official/not official' thing should be taken into context. It is a unique tier and therefore it should be allowed to evolve in different ways. It could potentially be a tier in which weather it is not allowed but the notion of the 'potential future metagame' still stands in place, or it could follow the continuity of the current released DW abilities and make it a 'current, no weather, metagame'.

    If people are so torn apart over this issue (judging by the votes - 27 vs 25 at the moment ), then the most diplomatic answer is to create Clear Skies DW and Clear Skies Wifi. If this is going to turn into a stalemate, I think this should be taken further as opposed to making a decision on the whim from what it is being posted in this thread alone.
     
  38. coyotte508

    coyotte508 Well-Known Member Administrator Server Owner Administrator Server Owner

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    The 302 battles are only ladder battles. Plus I've updated the stats, it's 1257 now. You should all know that stats aren't updated daily, and checking Wifi and seeing only 75000 battles should have been a pretty strong hint.
     
  39. mibuchiha

    mibuchiha Was yea ra chs ieeya.

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    Adv 200 used to be Adv OU at some time ago. Same goes with M Dragon's gen 4 OU (tempted to say DP OU but I can't) in his Elite 4 thread. I'm pretty sure Bullet Punch Scizor can exist in DP, it's the same gen after all, but fact is, it is not obtainable in those games. And we never complained about wanting BP Scizor, even though it is also coded in the games. Our current Wifi tier is exactly like that now. So why are we talking about DW abilities to be allowed at all? Surely we knew that Scizor could run BP in DP if we look at the codes, just as we know Zapdos could run Lightningrod now. And yet in the past, we were accepting the issue rather easily. It was still not obtainable legally, therefore it is not yet 'real'. There was never an issue about the potential future metagame or something like that at all. So why do we treat the same issue very differently this time?

    I don't have anything against DW abilities in particular. But our desperation of defending something that as far as we know is merely a potential (some DW abilities could be released well after whatever new games gen 5 will have) strikes me as weird.
     
  40. coyotte508

    coyotte508 Well-Known Member Administrator Server Owner Administrator Server Owner

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    It's not desperation, or you could say "desperation of putting wifi everywhere" too. DW is just another ruleset, with rules clearly defined. It doesn't really matter if some DW abilities are released in a very long time.

    That's just plain wrong. We couldn't know, the same way now we don't know what DW moves will the DW pokemon come with. Or what moves will be given to the pokemon in the new 5th gen games.

    The data in the pokemon game is "breeding moves, TM/HM moves, Level up moves". (and each tutor has a set of pokemon to teach to) There's nothing about moves in future generations.
     
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