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[BW2] Fantastic Handpicked NEU Tier

Discussion in 'Gen 5 NU' started by Wavy, Sep 30, 2011.

  1. Weiss

    Weiss Member

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    It'd be fun to have a place where you can use stuff like Beedrill though...Using NU's cutoff would just result in an NFE Eviolite fest. Having an actual list of sucky pokemon is kinda fun <_< If you guys ever set up a server dedicated to this thing I am so joining <_<
     
  2. Wavy

    Wavy prince of the sea Server Moderator Server Moderator

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    The tier exists for fun, and because it could very well viably be an official tier. However, the goal was to find a level of power that was somewhat significantly below that of NU, and there are things of varying power mixed in around the top of NEU and a LOT of things that would need to be suspected if this were an official tier. All that being said: Teambats. Could make for some fun teambats for NU.

    We're not some counsel of four. All tiers are based on the opinions of a certain number of people, lower tiers are determined by the opinions of their tier leaders and are swayed by the opinions of the community. (More people have contributed their opinions since I made that list of contributors.)

    We're still playing NU, working on NU analysis, etc. Lower tier leaders have had low involvement in any rate. And "will never be" in what sense? In the sense that there will never be a tier below NU or that there will never be a handpicked tier?

    Edit:

    Also, this tier is still usage restricted. Everything listed here would be available in a real NEU tier. We're just doing reverse suspect tests instead of regular ones. Much less overwhelming and ends up with pretty good balance. Regular suspects will slip by, but primarily we just have to do reverse suspects.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2011
  3. "Bad To The Bone" Balla

    "Bad To The Bone" Balla so B.A.D.

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    I really enjoyed playing with these pokemon, and even if it doesn't become "official" in a sense, its extremely fun to play with extremeley underpowered pokemon (delibird, plusle, dustox, swalot for example), and have them work well, even if it is just for fun.

    I also think garbodor needs to stay, he checks all the QDancers, and other set up sweepers.
     
  4. christian-7

    christian-7 New Member

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    Can i be involved in this!?? i think this is an awesome idea dude! :D
     
  5. marmoteo

    marmoteo Member

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    I share similar sentiments with Oak. While I don't think it is a complete waste of time since it allows some people to theorize and have some 'healthy' fun, I think that if there was to be focus on working on a tier, it's probably of higher priority to sort out the lower tiers first and possibly even creating something from the usage statistics from NU and going from there. After all, it could end up turning similar to what it is been posted here and it would follow a more natural (and ironically, rigorous) path, compared to something handpicked by the liking of a few players.

    But to be 'on-topic'. I don't think that Garbodor would be broken - it would have all the perfect stats to be quite useful in the tier, specially with Sun probably running like crazy. A lot of Psychic types could probably deal with him, anyways.
     
  6. Aurist

    Aurist I do not jump for joy. I frolic in doubt.

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    anyone see my castform sweep earlier? thing is a BOSS :3
     
  7. coyotte508

    coyotte508 Well-Known Member Administrator Server Owner Administrator Server Owner

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    This looks fantastic! Too bad there's no butterfree or Arbok there.

    Well kind of sad to see the topic isn't active anymore, this was really a great idea.
     
  8. Aurist

    Aurist I do not jump for joy. I frolic in doubt.

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    it still gets a bit of attention on the server, and picks up here and there. it'll stay alive :]

    i'm also not sure why the two aren't here, i think butterfree might just be a big enough troll to not let in, but arbok sucks, i don't see why it wouldn't be allowed in

    edit: also, i think Electabuzz should be given a trial! possibly Magmar too. they might be a bit too much, they might not.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2011
  9. Wavy

    Wavy prince of the sea Server Moderator Server Moderator

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    If you think Qdancers are scary, imagine one that has almost 100% sleep and good speed/sp.atk. Butterfree brokan.

    Arbok doesn't really suck. Pretty strong, actually.

    Adding those 3 to untested. I still think Electabuzz and Magmar are too strong though.

    Also Phione is cool guys. Use it dudes.
     
  10. .WMV4

    .WMV4 pure evulz!!!!!

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    I swear, if this is made into a tier, I will ladder day and night on it
    Sounds awesome :)
     
  11. Wavy

    Wavy prince of the sea Server Moderator Server Moderator

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    Hit me up on the server and we can battle once you've got a team made.


    Also, changes today are big. Banned Stunfisk and Garbodor. Stunfisk because he walled too much, Garbodor because he got spikes up way too easily with his bulk, speed AND EVEN POWER. It was painful to see them go because they fit the tier so well appearance-wise, but it's for the best.

    Next stop is to take a look at all the asterisk mons, and test out all the candidates.
     
  12. Aurist

    Aurist I do not jump for joy. I frolic in doubt.

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    god i'm so sad that stunfisk is gone, he was literally incredible, my favourite thing about the tier. now pelipper got no friend :(. gonna have to fine new and exciting cores. mixed feelings about garb going (he was pretty cool) but he really was too much.
     
  13. pokemonnerd

    pokemonnerd Only uso listens to pnerd. Devo too. Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    Finally decided to get rid of Garbodor? Awesome. Time to get Masquerain out next.
     
  14. Wavy

    Wavy prince of the sea Server Moderator Server Moderator

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    Masquerain Checks (Some may be counters):

    Dewgong: Can tank any of his attacks and either status or hit hard with ice moves. Has to be careful of roosting sets.
    Ampharos: Isn't taken down by anything in his arsenal and can hit hard with electric moves, or paralyze. (Or both)
    Kecleon: Can survive even the dreaded Bug Buzz + Air Slash and hit back hard with a cock rock slide.
    Probopass: Isn't 2HKO'd by unboosted Hydro Pumps and can OHKO back with a rock move.
    Bastiodon: Same deal as Probopass.
    Electrode: Not OHKO'd by anything and outspeeds at +1, where he can do some damage with an electric move or status. Soundproof means safe bug buzz switch.
    Pidgeot: May need EV tweaking but can handle Masquerain somewhat well. Scarf set is probably best check.
    Fearow: Frailer than Pidgeot but can still switch in somewhat and check with a scarf set.
    Illumise: Can withstand any of his moves, and can Encore his quiver dances, or stop him with a priority T-Wave.

    These guys will have some problems with HP Elec, namely Mantine:

    Mantine: Wins if Masquerain isn't running HP Elec
    Noctowl: Can take hits from Masquerain fairly well but I don't know what it could do back. Can only really whirlwind it or toxic it. He might do some damage with air slash or something.
    Togetic: Can take hits somewhat well and has more options to respond than Noctowl.

    These guys will have big problems with Giga Drain:

    Corsola: Takes anything but Giga Drain and OHKO's back, and then walks off with decent health thanks to Regenerator. Has to specialize though: Power Gem won't OHKO but Rock Slide will. Specialized EVs might let it OHKO a +1 Masque but I don't know. Rindo Berry can help.
    Seismitoad: Tanks anything and OHKO's with Rock Slide. Rindo Berry can help.

    And here are some random unoptimized calcs
    [secret]0Atk Dewgong (Neutral) Avalanche vs 4HP/0Def Leftovers Masquerain (Neutral): 51% - 60% (144 - 170 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    0Atk Dewgong (Neutral) Icicle Spear vs 4HP/0Def Leftovers Masquerain (Neutral): 65% - 78% (186 - 222 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    0Atk Dewgong (Neutral) Icicle Spear vs 4HP/0Def Leftovers Masquerain (Neutral): 109% - 131% (310 - 370 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.
    0Atk Dewgong (Neutral) Icicle Spear vs 4HP/0Def Leftovers Masquerain (Neutral): 87% - 104% (248 - 296 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 29% chance to OHKO.
    0Atk Dewgong (Neutral) Icicle Spear vs 4HP/0Def Leftovers Masquerain (Neutral): 109% - 131% (310 - 370 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.
    0Atk Dewgong (Neutral) Icicle Spear vs 4HP/0Def Leftovers Masquerain (Neutral): 43% - 52% (124 - 148 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
    0Atk Dewgong (Neutral) Icicle Spear vs 4HP/0Def Leftovers Masquerain (Neutral): 65% - 78% (186 - 222 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    0Atk Dewgong (Neutral) Ice Shard vs 4HP/0Def Leftovers Masquerain (Neutral): 34% - 40% (96 - 114 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
    252SpAtk Life Orb Unnerve Masquerain (Neutral) Bug Buzz vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Thick Fat Dewgong (+SpDef): 26% - 31% (102 - 121 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.
    252SpAtk Life Orb +1 Unnerve Masquerain (Neutral) Bug Buzz vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Thick Fat Dewgong (+SpDef): 39% - 47% (153 - 183 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
    252SpAtk Life Orb Unnerve Masquerain (Neutral) Bug Buzz vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Wigglytuff (+SpDef): 30% - 36% (150 - 177 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.
    252SpAtk Life Orb +1 Unnerve Masquerain (Neutral) Bug Buzz vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Wigglytuff (+SpDef): 46% - 54% (223 - 264 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 5% chance to 2HKO with Leftovers.
    252SpAtk Life Orb +1 Unnerve Masquerain (Neutral) Hydro Pump vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Sturdy Probopass (+SpDef): 61% - 72% (200 - 236 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    252SpAtk Life Orb Unnerve Masquerain (Neutral) Hydro Pump vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Sturdy Probopass (+SpDef): 40% - 48% (132 - 158 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
    252SpAtk Life Orb Unnerve Masquerain (Neutral) Hydro Pump vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Sturdy Bastiodon (+SpDef): 43% - 51% (142 - 168 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
    252SpAtk Life Orb Unnerve Masquerain (Neutral) Hydro Pump vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Noctowl (+SpDef): 22% - 26% (91 - 107 HP). Guaranteed 5HKO.
    252SpAtk Life Orb +1 Unnerve Masquerain (Neutral) Hydro Pump vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Noctowl (+SpDef): 33% - 39% (136 - 161 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
    252SpAtk Life Orb +1 Unnerve Masquerain (Neutral) Hidden Power (Electric) vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Noctowl (+SpDef): 39% - 46% (160 - 188 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
    252SpAtk Life Orb +1 Unnerve Masquerain (Neutral) Hidden Power (Electric) vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Pidgeot (+SpDef): 51% - 61% (192 - 228 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    252SpAtk Life Orb +1 Unnerve Masquerain (Neutral) Hidden Power (Electric) vs 4HP/0SpDef Leftovers Pidgeot (Neutral): 93% - 110% (288 - 340 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 61% chance to OHKO.
    252SpAtk Life Orb Unnerve Masquerain (Neutral) Hidden Power (Electric) vs 4HP/0SpDef Leftovers Pidgeot (Neutral): 62% - 74% (192 - 228 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    252SpAtk Life Orb Unnerve Masquerain (Neutral) Hidden Power (Electric) vs 4HP/0SpDef Leftovers Fearow (Neutral): 78% - 93% (214 - 254 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    252SpAtk Life Orb Unnerve Masquerain (Neutral) Hidden Power (Electric) vs 4HP/0SpDef Leftovers Kecleon (Neutral): 23% - 27% (61 - 72 HP). Guaranteed 5HKO.
    252SpAtk Life Orb Unnerve Masquerain (Neutral) Bug Buzz vs 4HP/0SpDef Leftovers Kecleon (Neutral): 45% - 53% (118 - 139 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
    252SpAtk Life Orb Unnerve Masquerain (Neutral) Bug Buzz vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Kecleon (+SpDef): 26% - 32% (87 - 105 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.
    252SpAtk Life Orb Unnerve Masquerain (Neutral) Bug Buzz vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Soundproof Electrode (+SpDef): 0% - 0% (0 - 0 HP).
    252SpAtk Life Orb Unnerve Masquerain (Neutral) Hydro Pump vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Soundproof Electrode (+SpDef): 31% - 37% (102 - 120 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.
    252SpAtk Life Orb Unnerve Masquerain (Neutral) Hydro Pump vs 4HP/0SpDef Leftovers Soundproof Electrode (Neutral): 56% - 66% (148 - 175 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    252SpAtk Life Orb Unnerve Masquerain (Neutral) Hydro Pump vs 4HP/0SpDef Leftovers Pidgeot (Neutral): 53% - 63% (165 - 195 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    252SpAtk Life Orb Unnerve Masquerain (Neutral) Air Slash vs 4HP/0SpDef Leftovers Pidgeot (Neutral): 49% - 59% (153 - 183 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 20% chance to 2HKO with Leftovers. Delete
    252SpAtk Life Orb +1 Unnerve Masquerain (Neutral) Hydro Pump vs 4HP/0SpDef Leftovers Pidgeot (Neutral): 80% - 94% (247 - 291 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    252SpAtk Life Orb +1 Unnerve Masquerain (Neutral) Hidden Power (Bug) vs 4HP/0SpDef Leftovers Pidgeot (Neutral): 35% - 41% (108 - 127 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
    252SpAtk Life Orb +1 Unnerve Masquerain (Neutral) Hidden Power (Electric) vs 4HP/0SpDef Leftovers Pidgeot (Neutral): 93% - 110% (288 - 340 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 61% chance to OHKO.
    252SpAtk Life Orb +1 Unnerve Masquerain (Neutral) Hidden Power (Electric) vs 4HP/94SpDef Leftovers Pidgeot (Neutral): 82% - 97% (254 - 300 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    252Atk +1 Pidgeot (Neutral) Brave Bird vs 4HP/0Def Leftovers Masquerain (Neutral): 221% - 261% (626 - 738 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.
    0Atk +1 Pidgeot (Neutral) Brave Bird vs 4HP/0Def Leftovers Masquerain (Neutral): 168% - 198% (474 - 560 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.
    0Atk +1 Sniper Fearow (Neutral) Brave Bird vs 4HP/0Def Leftovers Masquerain (Neutral): 185% - 219% (524 - 618 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.
    0Atk Sniper Fearow (Neutral) Drill Peck vs 4HP/0Def Leftovers Masquerain (Neutral): 82% - 97% (234 - 276 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    252SpAtk Life Orb Unnerve Masquerain (Neutral) Hydro Pump vs 4HP/0SpDef Leftovers Fearow (Neutral): 67% - 79% (183 - 217 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.[/secret]

    There may be more that open up depending on Masque's moveset.

    Thoughts on these checks?

    Also I forgot about Baton Pass. No idea how effective that is though or how well these checks apply.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2011
  15. christian-7

    christian-7 New Member

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    Wow no one has tried Fearow yet or somethin??

    Fearow
    ability: Sniper
    Nature:Jolly
    item: life orb
    Moveset:
    Drill peak
    Drill linear
    Return
    cheer up

    or you can go for a gimmicky mixed set
    fearow
    Ability;keen eye
    Nature: Naive
    item: life orb
    Moveset:
    Drill peak
    Heat Wave
    Cheer up
    return

    Personally i prefer the Physical set :) its awesome, can check sum things pretty well :)
     
  16. User Name

    User Name Life is a maze

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    @christian
    SubRoost Scope Lens Drill Run and Drill Peck w/Sniper
    You know you want to
     
  17. Aurist

    Aurist I do not jump for joy. I frolic in doubt.

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    Fearow has gotten plenty of attention. Also, totally go sky attack with scope lens ;P
     
  18. christian-7

    christian-7 New Member

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    That SubRoost fearow set looks so tempting XD
    i want to try out a Sheel smash Magcargo :D