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God of Pokemon: A guide to the Arceus formes (Now on Wiki)

Discussion in 'Ubers' started by Dr. Doom, Feb 17, 2013.

?

I'm thinking of doing a Wiki article like this. Good idea or not?

  1. Yes

    25 vote(s)
    83.3%
  2. No

    5 vote(s)
    16.7%
  1. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

    Messages:
    1,904
    Click Here to read the Wiki article

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    General


    It has the highest base stat total of all Pokemon. It has great 120 stats across the board, a movepool only surpassed by Mew and Smeargle, and an ability that allows it to become any type you desire. Judgment is the cherry on top of the cake, meaning whatever form you choose it always has a reliable special STAB.

    No Pokemon is truly perfect though, not even Arceus. While its stats are great in every area, none of them are exceptional. It can never abuse dual STABs like Palkia and Reshiram. And in every forme but Normal, it can only hold its respective plate. Those are just minor faults though, and certainly haven't hampered its popularity. Ranked Stats show that in one forme or another, it has 65% usage.

    Movesets

    Despite its sheer versatility, Arcues usually only runs 3 types of sets: Swords Dance, Calm Mind, and Support.

    Swords Dance

    Swords Dance sets are generally the easiest to use. You just switch into something that either can't hurt Arceus or will switch out, boost and then try for a sweep. Swords Dance is a quick way of boosting too – one boost is usually sufficient. However, not every Arceus forme can run a Swords Dance set, and they live in fear of being burnt.

    Calm Mind

    Thanks to Judgment, every Arceus forme bar Normal can run a good Calm Mind set. Unlike the Swords Dance sets, Calm Mind Arceus's goal isn't necessarily to sweep. Some formes try to grab 1 or 2 boosts and then go for a sweep; others attempt to use Calm Mind to bulk up and become a wall, which Arceus does very well thanks to Refresh and Will-O-Wisp. So while Swords Dance Arceus has an easier time setting up, Calm Mind variants are harder to revenge kill and aren't crippled by burns.

    Support

    Arceus can also elect to take advantage of its 120/120/120 defences to run a set focused on aiding teammates. Since Arceus gets Thunder Wave, Will-O-Wisp, Toxic, Stealth Rock and the fastest Roar in the game, it can be a very good supporter. When holding a Plate, it also can't be crippled by Trick. Support sets usually work either by crippling the opponent's team with status or checking specific Pokemon. However, they do tend to find themselves walled much more easily than offensive sets.

    The Forms

    Bug
    [​IMG]
    Sets: Calm Mind, Swords Dance

    Despite being looked down upon competitively, Bug Arceus is surprisingly capable. It has the niche of taking down both Mewtwo and Darkrai. The Swords Dance set is also an excellent Ho-Oh lure, luring it in and OHKOing with Stone Edge, enabling another special sweeper to have free reign. However, while Bug is superb offensive typing, defensively it's terrible. Fire moves are very common, and a Stealth Rock weakness is always bad.

    Dark
    [​IMG]
    Sets: Calm Mind, Support

    Although it's genearally not as useful as Ghost Arceus, who has more useful immunities, Dark Arceus has the niche in having nothing immune to its STAB, enabling it to run a very threatening MonoAttacker Calm Mind set which can demolish stall teams almost by itself. Due to its immunity to Psychic moves, it can also run a good support set using its STAB Payback to take out Psychic types like Mewtwo and Deoxys.

    Dragon
    [​IMG]
    Sets: Swords Dance, Calm Mind

    Being the fastest Dragon type in existance is not a bad title to have. But Dragon Arceus is one of the best formes for a Swords Dance set, with the monumental power of its STAB Outrage to power though teams once it has set up. It uses Earthquake and Extremespeed to back up Outrage. Although it faces competition from Rayquaza, who has higher attack and V-Create, Dragon Arceus is much faster, bulkier, and isn't weak to Stealth Rock. Its Calm Mind set can be dealdy too, with Fire Blast to differentiate itself from Giratina-O and Latios. However, its typing overlaps with the many other Dragon types in the tier, giving it common weaknesses.

    Electric
    [​IMG]
    Sets: Calm Mind

    Electric Arceus is one of the best offensive Calm Mind users in the tier, having nothing to envy from Thundurus since it's faster, bulkier, and isn't weak to Stealth Rock. It uses Ice Beam to back up its Electric STAB, granting it phenomenal 2 move coverage. It's good on rain teams with its 216 power Thunder; it's good on sun teams for its ability to take out Ho-Oh and Kyogre. It lacks useful resistances though, and has trouble with special walls. Those are minor faults though, and if you're running any kind of offensive team, Electric Arceus is well worth considering.

    Fighting
    [​IMG]
    Sets: Calm Mind, Support

    Boasting some uncommon resistances, Fighting Arceus is a solid defensive Pokemon. It can run a very good Calm Mind set with Judgment complemented by either Ice Beam or Dark Pulse. It can also be a good supporter with Toxic; due to its typing, Steel types never switch in. Despite living in fear of Mewtwo and Ho-Oh, it can be very effective. It gets a special mention too as being a great check to ExtremeKiller Arceus.

    Fire
    [​IMG]
    Sets: Calm Mind

    Despite being weak to Stealth Rock and struggling in rain, Fire Arceus makes up for its flaws with sheer power. Its Fire Blast hits for a staggering 324 power in sun – no other Arceus forme can hit that hard (although Water in Rain comes close). This generation, it does face competition from Reshiram who has Dragon STAB, better special attack and Blue Flare. However, Fire Arceus is faster and has Thunder to smash the inevitable Kyogre and Ho-Oh switch in. So despite its flaws, its incredible power makes it worth considering for a sun team.

    Flying
    [​IMG]
    Sets: Calm Mind

    While Flying typing grants Arceus a weakness to Stealth Rock, it's also one of only 3 formes that doesn't care about Toxic Spikes and the only one that doesn't care about Spikes. Flying moves get good neutral coverage in the tier, with only a handful of Pokemon resisting them. This enables Flying Arceus to be a great stallbreaker – it has the niche over Dark and Steel Arceus by being able to hit Ferrothorn for neutral damage. Or it can be a sweeper, using Earth Power to hit the Flying resists for super effective damage. It may be tough for Flying Arceus to get going, but once it has it can do a lot of damage.

    Ghost
    [​IMG]
    Sets: Calm Mind, Swords Dance, Support

    Arceus is a very versatile Pokemon, and its Ghost forme is the most versatile of all. It can sweep on either side with Judgment and Shadow Force, using Focus Blast or Brick Break to grant perfect neutral coverage in 2 moves. And when asked to set up Stealth Rock, most Arceus formes would prefer to leave it to their minions. Ghost Arceus however, is more than willing – it enjoys a superb niche as being the only Ghost type (bar Golurk) that has access to Stealth Rock, enabling it to Spinblock and set hazards at the same time. Its sheer unpredictability makes it very difficult to counter directly.

    Grass
    [​IMG]
    Sets: Calm Mind, Support

    In a tier where Grass weak weather starters fight for supremacy, Grass Arceus has no trouble finding work. Its Calm Mind set is a potent anti-sand and anti-rain Pokemon: at +1 its Grass Knot OHKOs Groudon, Kyogre, and all bar the most specially defensive Tyranitar. Despite sounding very promising it has a few issues: no matter what move combination the Calm Mind set runs, it'll always be walled by something due to Grass's poor coverage. However Grass Arceus can also be an excellent supporter with Thunder Wave – due to its typing, Ground types will never switch in. As long as you keep it away from Ho-Oh, it will earn its keep.

    Ground
    [​IMG]
    Sets: Swords Dance, Calm Mind, Support

    Ground Arceus has nothing to envy from Groudon: it has better overall bulk, and something Groudon could only dream of: reliable recovery. Swords Dance is its flagship set, using the EdgeQuake combination with Recover to take advantage of all its qualities – speed, bulk and power. It can also run a great special set: Ice Beam complements Judgment as well as Stone Edge complements Earthquake. While it's slower to set up, Ice Beam is a more reliable coverage move than Stone Edge, and the special set isn't crippled by burns. It can also run a good support set with Will-O-Wisp, and with EdgeQuake it won't be set up fodder. Kyogre is a big worry for it though.

    Ice
    [​IMG]
    Sets: Calm Mind

    Ice is arguably the worst Arceus forme. At least Bug has some useful resistances like Ground – Ice has almost nothing it can safely switch in on. This makes is one of the hardest formes to use effectively. Ice is very good offensive typing though, hitting the common Dragons for super effective damage. It uses Thunder(bolt) to back up its STAB, hitting the whole tier for at least nuetral damage. Even there though, there's a problem. Electric Arceus can run pretty much the same set, but with better typing.

    Normal
    [​IMG]
    Sets: Swords Dance, Support

    Swords Dance Normal Arceus is Arceus's most popular set, and is commonly regarded as its best one. STAB Extremespeed makes it a formidable offensive threat, backed up by Brick Break and Shadow Claw it hits everything for neutral damage. However, it is afflicted with a chronic case of 4 moveslot syndrome: it would love to squeeze Recover on there, but the coverage granted by Brick Break and Shadow Claw are too good to give up. Its normal typing also lacks resistances, meaning it can be quickly worn down if using a Life Orb. Normal Arceus can also take advantage of its ability to hold Leftovers to run a great defensive set – Roar and Perish Song mean it won't be set up fodder.

    Poison
    [​IMG]
    Sets: Support, Calm Mind

    Poison Arceus may seem like a joke, since offensively or defensively, there are better types to choose from. However, it does have a niche: it can remove Toxic Spikes just by switching in. It's not set up fodder either – it can run an excellent support set with Will-O-Wisp to cripple the Groudon and Garchomp switch ins. It can also run a good Calm Mind set, using its immunity to Toxic to beat Chansey and Blissey without relying on Refresh.

    Psychic
    [​IMG]
    Sets: Calm Mind, Support

    Some Arceus formes have to work hard to carve out a niche for themselves. Psychic Arceus has to work hardest of all – while it has STAB Psyshock to beat Chansey, Blissey and Ho-Oh, Mewtwo has the more powerful Psystrike as well as better speed and special attack. Defensively, it's outclassed by Lugia who is immune to Toxic Spikes, has better bulk and Multiscale. So the Calm Mind set has to exploit being a hybrid. Its support set gives it a better niche – in rain, it is pretty much the only Pokemon that can reliably counter Mewtwo, checking it with Payback and Extremespeed.

    Rock
    [​IMG]
    Sets: Calm Mind, Swords Dance, Support

    Rock Arceus's USP is the special defence boost it gets in a Sandstorm. In a Sandstorm, it can surive a Draco Meteor from Choice Specs Kyurem-W... with no investment at all! Rock moves get such good coverage, Rock Arceus can run a MonoCM set with Judgment as its only attack, using Recover with either Will-O-Wisp to become almost unbreakable or Refresh to break stall. If you don't fancy that though, it can utilise a more offensive Calm Mind set with Fire Blast and Grass Knot to smash its usual switch ins (Ferrothorn and Kyogre). It can even go the other way with Swords Dance, and enjoys a niche in being a Swords Dance user that can OHKO Skarmory without depending on weather. You could forgo sweeping entirely for a full support set, either setting up Stealth Rock or spreading status (Will-O-Wisp is usually best) with Roar and Perish Song. However, 5 weaknesses is very bad, and the ubiquitous Groudon and Kyogre cause problems for it.

    Steel
    [​IMG]
    Sets: Calm Mind, Swords Dance, Support

    With its slew of resistances, great speed and bulk, Steel Arceus makes a lot of sense with Dragon moves being slung around left right and centre. Steel Arceus can use its amazing bulk and immunity to Toxic to break through stall teams almost by itself. Ferrothorn loves to switch in – if Arceus packs Substitute, it becomes set up fodder. It can run a good Swords Dance set too, with Iron Head and Earthquake. It can ditch Calm Mind altogether and use its immense bulk to support its team either by setting up Stealth Rock, or shuffling burns around with Will-O-Wisp and Roar or Perish Song.

    Water
    [​IMG]
    Sets: Swords Dance, Calm Mind, Support

    While its typing overlaps with Kyogre and Manaphy, and it faces competition for most of its sets from said Pokemon, it has enough to differentiate itself. For one, it can run a great Swords Dance set – Waterfall hits for a brutal 216 power in Rain, with Brick Break and Dragon Claw rounding out its coverage. It can run offensive or defensive Calm Mind sets – it has Fire Blast to 2HKO Ferrothorn even in rain, something Kyogre and Manaphy could never accomplish. The defensive set gets Will-O-Wisp, while Kyogre and Manaphy have to rely on Scald. And believe it or not, Water Arceus works very well in sun! It's one of the very few Pokemon who can reliably switch in on Specs Reshiram in sun.

    What Arceus is right for you?

    That rather depends on what you want for your team. Here are a few scenarios:

    ”I need a Pokemon that synergises well with my Groudon/Kyogre/Tyranitar.”

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Grass Arceus pairs up well with all three Pokemon, for its ability to take out the other weather starters. Even though they share a weakness to Water (which is removed in sun), Fire Arceus can abuse Groudon's sun and also lure in and take out Kyogre with a boosted Thunder. Although they share a weakness to Grass, Ground Arceus can switch into the Electric moves that Kyogre draws and set up on them. Tyranitar draws in Fighting type moves, which Ghost Arceus can use to set up on. It can also keep Tyranitar's Stealth Rock on the field.

    “I just need a physical sweeper”
    While numerous Arceus formes can viably run a Swords Dance set, some are better used as wallbreakers than all out sweepers due to lackluster STAB (looking at you Steel). Below are the best ones for physical sweeping.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Normal will probably be most people's first choice, since its typing doesn't overlap with many common Pokemon and it gets STAB Extremespeed. Dragon, Water and Ghost pack much more powerful STABs (Water needs Rain though), and thus can beat physcial walls better than Normal. Like Ghost, Rock and Ground can attain near perfect neutral coverage in 2 moves freeing up a slot for Recover, which makes them much harder to revenge kill. Bug gets a mention as a great Ho-Oh lure.

    “I just need a special sweeper”
    Again, almost all Arceus formes can run a Calm Mind set but some use Calm Mind to bulk up and break stall, other use it to sweep. Here are the ones who are best at the latter.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    With only 1 weakness and excellent 2 move coverage, Electric Arceus can devastate teams easily after a couple of boosts, although it struggles with special walls like Chansey and Ferrothorn. Fire and Water Arceus pack incredible power in their respective weathers, so much so that at +2 they can both 2HKO Chansey. Dragon can run either an all out Calm Mind sweeper set or a more defensive SubCM set to foil attempts to revenge kill it. Ghost gets perfect neutral coverage with Judgment and Focus Blast, and that combined with its great bulk and uncommon weaknesses make it tough to take out. Rock can sweep with either its MonoCM set or its offensive Calm Mind set, becoming untouchable on the special side in a sandstorm. Ground's special set can be very effective as well, as being the only special attacking Ground type in the tier gives it a good niche. Even though Fighting usually uses Calm Mind in a more defensive way, once Ho-Oh and Mewtwo are gone it can be a great sweeper. Bug's niche is the ability to check both the Psychic types, Darkrai and Tyranitar with its Judgment, although Stealth Rock and Ho-Oh hold it back, although it can use Thunder to beat Ho-Oh. Ice can work for its excellent STAB, although it struggles to find space to set up.

    “I need a weapon against stall teams”

    Let's face it, stall sucks. Toxic, Protect, Recovery move, phazing move, repeat. It's not nice to face. Here are a few Arceus formes that make stall teams cry.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Steel Arceus can crush stall teams almost by itself, and all they can do in return is phaze. It can't be poisoned and it's immune to Sandstorm damage. Dark Arceus's Judgment hits two of the tier's most prominent walls (Giratina and Lugia) for super effective damage, and with Recover and Refresh they'll be almost powerless against it. Poison may seem terrible, but Rapid Spinners are fighting a losing battle against the spinblockers, and removing Toxic Spikes just by switching in is a good USP. Its Calm Mind set also beats Chansey and Blissey, since they can't poison it. Flying gets an honourable mention for being immune to Toxic Spikes and hitting Ferrothorn for neutral damage. Rock has one of the best offensive STABs of the forms in this section, and is one of the only ones that can legitimately sweep. Water hits much harder in rain, although it struggles much more with Ferrothorn than the other forms.

    “I need a status spreader”

    Spreading status problems around helps a lot: it gives sweepers room to set up, and crippling Pokemon that rely on their speed/attack/bulk with status puts you that much closer to victory.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Many Ubers Pokemon rely on their speed: Darkrai, Rayquaza, Shaymin-S and Mewtwo to name but a few. When paralysed, they're dead weight – Grass is a brilliant paralysis spreader. Ground, Ghost, Poison and Normal are all good at spreading burns to cripple those physical attackers – after that, they won't pose much threat at all. Normal gets a standout mention for being able to hold Leftovers. Fighting is an excellent user of Toxic, painful for offensive Pokemon and walls alike.

    “Mewtwo's such a pain. How can I make sure it doesn't threaten my team?”
    Mewtwo is a common and threatening Pokemon. The founder of Club Ubers is still a very prominent member. It can destroy teams easily given a chance, so a check to it is always good.

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    In rain, Psychic Arceus can switch in on an unboosted Mewtwo without too much hastle and 2HKO with Payback and Extremespeed. Dark Arceus has to be more careful switching in because of Aura Sphere, but said Aura Sphere means Mewtwo will try to take it on...and will be OHKOd by Payback (needs Stealth Rock to guarantee the OHKO). Bug and Ghost Arceus can also check Mewtwo to a lesser extent, although Bug is OHKOd by a +1 Fire Blast outside rain and Ghost is outrun and 2HKOd by a +1 Psystrike.

    "I need a Wall"
    If for whatever reason Giratina and Lugia don't float your boat, here are a few Arceus formes that excel at taking the hits.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Steel and Poison are immune to Toxic, so stalling them out is impossible. Normal has the ability to hold Leftovers, as well as fewer weaknesses. MonoAttacker Rock in sand is very difficult to take out if it packs Will-O-Wisp. It can also sweep, since Rock Judgment has good neutral coverage.

    "I need to take out the Spinblockers"
    Rapid Spin is one of the best support moves available, and for some Pokemon (Reshiram, Ho-Oh) it's integral to their success. However, Giratina(O) and Ghost Arceus are both doing their utmost to make sure you can't spin away those hazards. Here are some Arceus formes those Pokemon fear.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Dark can easily beat Giratina and Ghost Arceus one on one, and with the combo of Recover and Refresh they'll find it very hard to win. Ghost Arceus can spinblock itself and beat the other spinblockers, although since it's weak to Ghost moves too, it has a harder time than its Dark forme. Dragon can beat Giratina(O) one on one with most of its sets, and will beat Ghost Arceus one on one with its Swords Dance set.

    Conclusion

    There are many forms Arceus can use and many sets Arceus can run. It defines the tier as much, if not more, than Groudon and Kyogre. While its Extremekiller set gets the most love, and is a great set, there is so much more it can do than that. I urge you to try the other forms – not doing that is like going to Paris, seeing the Eiffel Tower, and then going straight home. True, many face competition for their roles, but it nearly always has a niche. It will almost always earn its keep on your team, whatever you choose to do with it.
    Last edited: May 26, 2013
  2. two sides of one coin

    two sides of one coin sick of all her shit

    Messages:
    1,255
    Rockeus is a fucking brilliant support mon, needs an add also sometimes they can run shit like Refresh or WoW with the boosting set, needs an add too. otherwise good work!
  3. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Piko!

    Messages:
    1,840
    Very well thought out, and there's plenty of detail in it. Nicely done.

    I'm not all that experienced with Ubers, so this is very useful for me.

    One small nitpick I do have is the occasional grammar problem, though I'm sure this isn't a huge concern for you. The most prominent one was the use of 'compliment' instead of 'complement'

    Compliment is where you tell someone they look nice. Complement is where something goes well with another. You want the latter in every case for this piece of writing.

    You missed out an 'R' in Groudon just after "What Arceus is right for you?", and there was another thing I noticed, but I forgot. :D

    Hope this little nitpick helps. :3
  4. two sides of one coin

    two sides of one coin sick of all her shit

    Messages:
    1,255
    Arceus-Elect has phenomenal misspelled
    Arceus-Normal has no FBlast mention and wtf is staddled
    Special sweeper had untouchable spelled wrong
    Occasionally you misuse it's
    [/GRAMMARNAZI]
  5. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Piko!

    Messages:
    1,840
    Ahh, nice catches SexiOne. I caught those, but forgot to mention them earlier. D:
  6. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

    Messages:
    1,904
    Mentioned.

    Well spotted, changed. Yes it does help.

    1. Changed
    2. Why would you use Fire/Focus Blast on Normal Arceus? For Skarmory? In rain, neither OHKO anyway. Special sets are done better by formes with better STAB. That was meant to be straddled - I changed it to "afflicted with".
    3. Changed
    4. I read through it and they all seemed OK. Can you name a specific instance? Just to clear up - it's is a shortened it is; its is used in a possesive sense.
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2013
  7. Finchinator

    Finchinator 1989 Tier Leader

    Messages:
    3,450
    PO Trainer Name:
    Finchinator / Finch
    I love this thread / guide. Not only will newer players be fully informed in the "God" of Ubers, but even veteran / experienced players can use this to aid them in team building.
    One nitpick:
    I think SD Fighteus is semi-viable, not jut CM and Support.
  8. User Name

    User Name Life is a maze

    Messages:
    1,767
    Should upload onto Wiki. :P
    Perhaps in "What Arceus is right for you?", put the names of each Arceus form under each category before the paragraph that goes into more detail.
  9. Aurist

    Aurist well, that's another penguin dropped on the dick Tier Leader

    Messages:
    2,230
    This is great! I think it can probably even be kept more or less in this format on the wiki, probably with a different article title or something. Perhaps [[5th Gen Ubers/Arceus Guide]] or something is appropriate, but i feel like it needs more of a mainspace position. Got nothing else to add, good job with this :3

    EDIT: the new wiki should be having a Guides namespace shortly, so that will be good for this.
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2013
  10. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

    Messages:
    1,904
    I disagree with you there - Brick Break is just too weak. Terrakion and Blaziken do Swords Dance sets better since they have dual STABs to use, and more powerful Fighting STABs. Psychic and Flying Arceus could theoretically use Swords Dance sets, but they wouldn't be very good.

    Thanks for all the feedback guys. Can anyone think of some more scenarios I could add to the "What Arceus is right for you?" section?
  11. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Piko!

    Messages:
    1,840
    Uhh, "I need a physical / special wall"?

    Sometimes Lugia / Blissey / Giratina etc won't do the trick, and that's where a specific Arceus forme comes in? *shrugs*
  12. Aurist

    Aurist well, that's another penguin dropped on the dick Tier Leader

    Messages:
    2,230
    "I need to beat the spinblockers" - Dark, Ghost, more?
  13. DSM01

    DSM01 Jammin' out

    Messages:
    623
    Nice article, the "What Arceus is right for you?" section really makes it useful and gives it something the Smogon guide doesn't have. I didn't read the whole thing but something that stuck out to me was your recommendation of Fireceus on a sun team, specifically as a Kyogre lure. I really don't see its niche—Ho-Oh's titanic special bulk makes it more useful defensively and Reshiram outclasses it offensively with its secondary Dragon STAB. I know you tried to showcase all the Arceus formes in this section, but the fact of the matter is that not all formes were created equal and some are simply better than others. Including an Arceus viability ranking similar to this would be a good way to get new players looking at the right formes.
  14. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

    Messages:
    1,904
    A + 1 Thunder is a clean 2HKO. Kyogre switches in to try and take it out, and is itself KOd. It's also faster than Reshiram, has Calm Mind and Recover, and packs Thunder(bolt) to smash through Ho-OH, a Pokemon Reshiram really struggles with. I wasn't recommending it over Ho-Oh and Reshiram, I merely said it was worth considering, which it is. I've had great results with it.

    An Arceus viability ranking thread is an interesting idea. It would be quite tricky though.
  15. two sides of one coin

    two sides of one coin sick of all her shit

    Messages:
    1,255
    Tbh, you'd have the ones like Flying and Poison at the bottom, and Ghost and Normal at the top, not too hard to manage. The middle's probably the trickiest bit to do.
  16. puregenius

    puregenius :<

    Messages:
    483
    Fire blast deserves a mention on ek arceus

    Also ur viability section is dodgy at best :/

    otherwise good guide for beginners
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2013
  17. two sides of one coin

    two sides of one coin sick of all her shit

    Messages:
    1,255
    Name them in viability, new players may not know which is which.
    ...Fighting Arceus isn't a C btw
  18. Aurist

    Aurist well, that's another penguin dropped on the dick Tier Leader

    Messages:
    2,230
    I think it's a bad idea to have a viability ranking thing, but anyway agreed that Arceus fight is not a C, easily a B
  19. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

    Messages:
    1,904
    Yeah I agree - I'm going to take it down, since most of them have a niche that makes them viable.
  20. -Manaphy--

    -Manaphy-- Overconsumption

    Messages:
    697
    Naw I think a viability chart is a good idea- people need to know that Bug and Ice are useless and that Normal and Ghost are clearly a notch above the rest. It just becomes really subjective when you get to stuff like Grass and Rock.
  21. KM007

    KM007 Banned

    Messages:
    520
    Very well written. It's kind of funny that fight arceus is a special/support you would think it is psychical. Wouldn't choice scarf/band/specs be viable as options as well and not just psychical/calm mind/support
  22. two sides of one coin

    two sides of one coin sick of all her shit

    Messages:
    1,255
    Arceus-Fighting cannot run Choice items....*headdesk*
  23. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

    Messages:
    1,904
    Only Normal can hold other items besides Plate, and even then it wouldn't want to use Choice Items. 120/120 attack stats are nothing special in Ubers, so there are Pokemon who do Choice Items much better.

    Edit: You can lock this thread now, since I've got it on the Wiki. Thanks for your feedback guys :)
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2013
  24. Titan Laser

    Titan Laser Ultimate Organism

    Messages:
    12
    PO Trainer Name:
    Overlord GAIA
    God Tier

    Arceus-Normal

    Top Tier

    Arceus-Ghost

    High Tier

    Arceus-Water, Arceus-Rock, Arceus-Grass, Arceus-Steel, Arceus-Ground

    Mid Tier

    Arceus-Dragon, Arceus-Dark, Arceus-Fighting, Arceus-Electric

    Low Tier

    Arceus-Fire, Arceus-Ice, Arceus-Poison

    Bottom Tier

    Arceus-Flying, Arceus-Psychic, Arceus-Bug
  25. puregenius

    puregenius :<

    Messages:
    483
    I approve of this list, but I'd put arceus ghost and normal together
  26. two sides of one coin

    two sides of one coin sick of all her shit

    Messages:
    1,255
    Always a controversial one, Arceus-Dark. I'd have it higher myself and maybe Arceus-Water lower, but it's decent in general.
  27. Mario with lasers

    Mario with lasers Banned

    Messages:
    22
    No, they don't need to know that because they're not.
    Ice Arceus does have many opportunities to setup since Ice is an extremely common attacking type (especially on choiced users like Kyurem-W and Kyogre) and it still has the 120/120/120 defenses the other Arceus formes.
    You will not want to face a +1 Arceus-Ice, especially in a tier where ice is such a common weakness.
    While Kyurem-W gives it competition as an ice-type special attacker, they play completely differently: Kyu-W is a wallbreaker that doesn't need to set up, while Arceus-Ice is played as a lategame special sweeper (which are surprisingly rare in ubers; most of them are physical).
    Electric Arceus doesn't pull the CM set nearly as well because Ice STAB is much more valuable than Electric STAB in ubers.

    As for Arceus-Bug, it completely outclasses Genesect as a setup sweeper since it's much faster, has better bulk, a better movepool and access to Swords Dance. It's one of the most unpredictable Arceus formes, being able to go either physical or special and Bug is a solid attacking type in ubers.
  28. ZoroDark

    ZoroDark Shake It Out Tier Leader

    Messages:
    1,355
    Yeah they aren't useless, but there's no need to make it seem like they're good either (since they aren't).

    The problem with Arceus-Ice and Arceus-Bug is their Stealth Rock weakness, in a tier where it's nigh impossible to spin immediately. (Forretress, Tentacruel and Excadrill all need to wear down Giratina(-O) and Ghostceus gradually before actually being able to spin). The complete lack of common resistances on both Iceceus' and Bugceus' part don't help either, considering you'll be entering the field more often than not at 75% (or even lower).

    The comparison between Arceus-Bug and Genesect doesn't go up either. Genesect is a revenge killer who can easily gain momentum, and if you're using him as set up sweeper, you're doing it wrong. Bug will struggle do to anything against sun teams with Reshiram or Ho-Oh on those teams.

    There's a lot more I can say about those, but all I wanted to point out, is that you need a damn good reason to use these Arceus formed, since they're quickly outclassed by something else.

    EDIT: Personally, I still think a viability ranking would be a good idea. The problem is, it's heavily opinionated and some good discussion is probably the best idea beforing adding one. Mine would probably look like this.

    S-Rank:
    Ghost, Normal

    A-rank:
    Fight (seriously, it's sick good use it more often), Grass, Ground, Rock, Steel

    B-rank:
    Water (gah this one's like right between A and B imo), Dragon, Dark, Electric

    C-rank:
    Ice, Bug, Fire, Flying, Psychic, Poison[/HIDE]
    Last edited: May 27, 2013
  29. puregenius

    puregenius :<

    Messages:
    483
    my personal one would be

    great

    ghost, normal

    pretty good

    steel, grass, fight, ground

    good

    water, electric, rock, dark

    decent

    dragon, ice, fire

    pretty shit

    poison, psychic

    shit

    bug, flying
  30. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Piko!

    Messages:
    1,840
    This post is PRETTY pointless, considering how A, this is already on the Wiki, and B, Doom has covered Arceus from just about every angle possible. The holy llama has been dealt with, good sir.
  31. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

    Messages:
    1,904
    I'm sorry you feel that way - I promise I wasn't trying to offend anyone. On the Wiki it's simply called Guide to the Arceus Formes.
  32. puregenius

    puregenius :<

    Messages:
    483
    Post 1 + 1 = 2 and someone somewhere will be offended

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