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v 2.4.1


Project RBY 251

Discussion in 'RBY' started by Crystal_, Feb 3, 2013.

  1. Crystal_

    Crystal_ New Member

    Messages:
    156
    RBY 251 has gone live! You can play it ALREADY!


    GET STARTED

    As you can imagine, this basically consists on all 251 GSC Pokemon in a RBY environment: RBY mechanics, moves, no items, no spc split... The metagame is meant to be the answer to the question: How would RBY look like if Pokemon up to #251 had existed in the first generation?

    1. Download the mod here
    2. Open Pokemon Online and go to the team builder
    3. Click Mods -> install new mod
    4. Search the RBY 251 mod and open it (it's a .zip named RBY 251). It will likely be in your downloads folder.
    5. Make a team in Gen. RBY 251 and save it
    6. Now you are ready to go battling! Go online and in advanced connection enter Mount Silver - 83.41.189.64:5080, or search for the server Mount Silver
    7. Find someone to play and have fun!


    Important info/notes

    NFE Pokemon except Scyther have been removed to make room for the GSC Pokemon. It was not possible to keep them because only Pokemon numbered between 0 and 151 could be given a rby special stat. For this reason, GSC Pokemon have been merged with RBY pokemon. They have been sorted alphabetically between numbers 1 and 138.

    This means that the RBY 251 mod is not compatible with any other gen because Pokemon would have different index numbers. If you want to have RBY 251 and non RBY 251 teams loaded at the same time, it's advised that you open Pokemon Online twice, and use one for RBY 251 and the other for everything else. In fact, only the RBY 251 metagame can be played in the Mount Silver server.

    Due to a bug caused by legal combinations and compatibility, pre evo moves such as Beedrill's String Shot and Arcanine's Flamethrower have been merged with level up moves and they all show up as 'Level' in the team builder.

    In the RBY 251 mod, RBY (and GSC) Pokemon will show the correct special stat in the teambuilder instead of the special attack stat of the future gens.

    Remember that signature moves of GSC Pokemon have been kept. This includes Aeroblast (Lugia), Sacred Fire (Ho-oh), Megahorn (Heracross), Sketch (Smeargle), Triple Kick (Hitmontop), Milk Drink (Miltank), Present (Delibird), and Spider Web (Ariados).

    If you think you may have found a bug don't hesitate to contact me to let me know. You can send me a PM here, in Smogon, in RBY2K10, or in Mount Silver.

    Warning: Old battle window must be selected or otherwise you will see incorrect sprites.


    Info on how TM/HM moves have been chosen

    First off, TM/HM moves available in RBY 251 are only the TMs/HMs available in RBY.

    Out of these 55 (50 TM + 5 HM), there are different cases (if a move satisfies 2 or more of the following critera, whichever criterion is first takes precedence):

    Moves learned by every Pokemon in RBY with the exceptions being only Caterpie, Kakuna, Magicarp etc. -> Every GSC Pokemon except Unown and Wobbuffet (and Smeargle who learns everything via Sketch aka level) learns them in RBY 251. Examples: Mimic, Rest.

    Moves that are also TMs/HMs in GSC -> If a Pokemon learns it in GSC, the Pokemon learns it in RBY 251. Examples: Fire Blast, Fly.

    Moves that can be learned by tutor in GSC -> If a Pokemon learns it in GSC, the Pokemon learns it in RBY 251. Examples: Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Flamethrower.

    Moves that can be learned by TM/tutor in ADV -> If a Pokemon learns it in ADV, the Pokemon learns it in RBY 251. Examples: Counter, Body Slam, Sowrds Dance.

    (if a Pokemon can learn a move via breeding but can NOT learn it via TM/tutor, it does NOT learn it in RBY 251). Example: Mantine and Rock Slide (I can't remember more atm).

    There is a very small number of justified exceptions to these rules. Examples: Hitmontop and Rock Slide (the other hitmons don't learn it in RBY), Espeon/Umbreon and Cut (the other eons don't learn it in RBY). The main exception is Reflect, which has a much wider compatibility in RBY than in ADV, where it is a tutor move.

    Reflect and the moves that don't belong to any of the previous criteria have their compatibility chosen according to RBY trends. For example, only Pokemon that can stand in two legs learn Submission, and, like in RBY as well, Psychic and Psywave are learned by the same Pokemon, and the same for Water Gun and BubbleBeam. In addition, Mega Drain <-> Giga Drain, and Skull Bash <-> Headbutt, because of the very similar spread in GSC.

    Hopefully this has helped everybody interested in RBY 251 understand how it's exactly being made!

    For more information check the spreadsheet, which includes the special stat and the TM/HM moves of each Pokemon. For even more info, read the comments in the spreadsheet. The spreadsheet has been set to "view only" since everything is already done.

    Thanks to everyone who showed interetest, and especially Dr.Fuji and Isa for helping out! :)


    Screen capture of the team builder:

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2013
  2. GotThatPopcorn

    GotThatPopcorn Banned

    Messages:
    181
    So, are you stating, that a new game should be made?
  3. Crystal_

    Crystal_ New Member

    Messages:
    156
    No, it's just an idea for now. I'd like to hear opinions first, and then, if people like the idea, it could be developed.
  4. GotThatPopcorn

    GotThatPopcorn Banned

    Messages:
    181
    Well, I see what you mean and am willing to help you, but lets see what others think.
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2013
  5. Crystal_

    Crystal_ New Member

    Messages:
    156
    With plot twist, do you mean to remake a real game with these mechanics and pokemon? I don't think so... it's just an idea for a metagame
  6. Dr. Fuji

    Dr. Fuji New Member

    Messages:
    1,472
    I would love playing this and testing it if you made it and would be willing to help out. However this obviously isn't suitable for a standard tier on the main Pokemon Online server. It is also going to be difficult choosing whether to take special def/special attack for the special set or even a mixture of both.
  7. Crystal_

    Crystal_ New Member

    Messages:
    156
    Actually, I have been thinking about it, and the mod wouldn't be as difficult to do and wouldn't take as much time as I first thought. I just wouldn't bother about NFE Pokemon, and I wouldn't add Unown, Delibird and Wobbuffet either, since they would suck no matter what we do with them anyway.
    Most things could be taken from the gsc mod, and there are just around 7-8 moves to take from there. I could do the mod myself, although if someone is willing to help, that would speed things up for sure :)

    As for the special stat, in some cases it would be up to debate, but in most cases there is always something to look at: rby tendencies for similar Pokemon, rby preevolutions, gsc starters->rby starters, zap/arti/mol->kou/cune/entei, mewtwo->lugia/ho-oh, mew->celebi, eeveevolutions, hitmons, tauros/miltank, dnite->ttar, etc.
  8. AgentSyrup

    AgentSyrup New Member

    Messages:
    10
    I like it. It migth surpass rby (in awesomness). I definitly agree with your ideas about maintaining Dark and Steel but only as defenceive types, and keeping signature moves. I would like to see an rby Meta where Psychics arn't completely dominant.
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2013
  9. Isa

    Isa RBY guy

    Messages:
    465
    Just find somewhere to play. >.>
  10. Blitzamirin

    Blitzamirin ~ Zedd ~

    Messages:
    1,634
    You know, I've thought about Forum Tours using Gen 5 Pokemon in an RBY environment, because it sounds just ridiculous. Regice and Mantine would be monster attackers.

    If this happens, I'd love to test it out, though my only concern is how the Special stat will be handled.
  11. Crystal_

    Crystal_ New Member

    Messages:
    156
    Using logic and consistency whenever possible.

    I have found that the general rule is that, comparing gsc to rby, in almost every case, pokemon of a physical type(s) had the worst of the two special stats in rby (which is often the special attack in gsc) while special pokemon had the best special stat (often the special attack in gsc). So when dealing with random pokemon such as Sudowoodo (gets 30 spc), Skarmory (gets 40 spc), Ampharos (gets 115 spc), Jumpluff (grass is defining type, like in Vict's/Vileplume's case, so gets 85 spc) etc, I think that's a good rule to follow.

    I think Tauros is the only exception to this (has 70 spc in rby and 40 spa/70 spd in gsc), so that would apply to sister Miltank.
  12. Blitzamirin

    Blitzamirin ~ Zedd ~

    Messages:
    1,634
    That works. Stat balancing is such a key factor if this metagame wants to be developed properly, and the steps taken are going into a favorable position.

    With that said, I'd like to have the "Mantine" situation explained in different situations... To what extent? BSTs are a good start, but what about Pokemon with no evolutionary relatives? My curiosity mainly stems from Steelix, Mantine, Ho-Oh, Lugia, etc
  13. Crystal_

    Crystal_ New Member

    Messages:
    156
    Well, steelix gets the low special stat since that's the case for onix. Now, Ho-oh would perhaps get 176 special to keep the BTS consistent with Mewtwo; the other option is 156 special and then Lugia gets 136 special. It's a bit like the espeon/umbreon case, but lugia and ho-oh would be ubers anyway, so in the end, it maybe doesn't matter much. Potential conflictive cases I think are Shuckle, Mantine and Ledian.
  14. Blitzamirin

    Blitzamirin ~ Zedd ~

    Messages:
    1,634
    I thought about Shuckle, but what moves can it actually abuse? It gets no STAB for "offensive" presence, and its stalling options are limited to Rest / Toxic, and the amazing Wrap with that Base Speed (assuming Wrap moves aren't banned).

    Granted, everything is bulkier and there are less set up moves, but Surf / Rock Slide / Sleep moves are common enough.
  15. pokemonnerd

    pokemonnerd No one listens to pnerd. Forum Moderator

    Messages:
    2,255
    Shuckle could possibly be given an attack stat that's workable in RBY.

    Also, after thinking about it this idea would probably be best utilized with that RBY Plus idea/metagame that RBY2k10 made up. I mean we could probably correctly guess exactly what the metagame would be like with just another 100 pokemon added, since there's such scarcity of good moves or options in RBY that there'd either be better or worse versions of what already exists.
  16. Isa

    Isa RBY guy

    Messages:
    465
    This doesn't aim for balance though, instead it aims for...I suppose accuracy is a better word. The only stat to be edited in most cases will be the Special one.
  17. Crystal_

    Crystal_ New Member

    Messages:
    156
    yeah, what Isa said. The point is to make a "logic" rby metagame with gsc pokemon. Only the special stat will be changed; the other stats won't be touched.
  18. pokemonnerd

    pokemonnerd No one listens to pnerd. Forum Moderator

    Messages:
    2,255
    Makes a lot more sense then, either way it seems like an interesting idea to me. Would at least try a game or two if it was made at least.
  19. Crystal_

    Crystal_ New Member

    Messages:
    156
    check first post for updates!
  20. Blitzamirin

    Blitzamirin ~ Zedd ~

    Messages:
    1,634
    That Normal Sludge Bomb with 0 PP. I guess Sweet Scent too, but that sucks.

    And you're doing this yourself? Just wondering
  21. Crystal_

    Crystal_ New Member

    Messages:
    156
    Sludge Bomb is not Sweet Cent, it's the Sludge Bomb move itself with no data. Moves like Sweet Cent and Sludge Bomb have to be removed (from the Pokemon)

    Some people have told me that they are interested in this and maybe that they could help/contribute; now it's about who really ends up helping (or if I end up doing this alone, I hope not lol). If you, or anyone else, is interested in helping with the project check this
  22. Xinc

    Xinc Hideyoshi the Falcon

    Messages:
    1,524
    I would very much like to play this. Good luck with your endeavor.
  23. Isa

    Isa RBY guy

    Messages:
    465
    For future updates please specify what's new... =P
  24. Crystal_

    Crystal_ New Member

    Messages:
    156
    Updates on GSC Pokemon:

    Level up moves that did not exist in RBY have been removed.
    Every pre-evo move that comes from breeding or NYPC have also been removed. Thus, only evolved Pokemon that don't learn every move learned by it's previous stage via leveling up keep some pre-evo moves. These Pokemon are Bellosom, Politoed, Espeon, Umbreon, Slowking, Scizor, Porygon2 and Hitmontop.

    [​IMG]

    This means that once the special stat and TM/HM moves are implemented the mod would be finished!

    You can download the updated mod clicking in the link you can see in the first post, so you can see the progress so far and how things look like. It would also be nice if someone bothers to give everything a quick check; I have tried to put a lot of concentration to avoid making mistakes but I obviously can't guarantee it 100%.
  25. Xinc

    Xinc Hideyoshi the Falcon

    Messages:
    1,524
    Would pokemon retain their normal typing? Such as steel/electric magneton? or just electric?
  26. Isa

    Isa RBY guy

    Messages:
    465
    "Dark and Steel: My idea is that the types are kept but there are no moves of these types. This way Pokemon aren't changed and moves neither. After all, there are no real Dragon-type moves either, so Nintendo programmers would probably have been fine with no dark- and steel-type moves. (Remember: "How would RBY look like if Pokemon up to #251 had existed in the first generation?")"

    It was in the opening post. >_>
  27. Crystal_

    Crystal_ New Member

    Messages:
    156
    And... it still is.
  28. Xinc

    Xinc Hideyoshi the Falcon

    Messages:
    1,524
    So it is to my understanding there are dark and steel typing, but no moves of that type.
  29. Crystal_

    Crystal_ New Member

    Messages:
    156
    true, because no dark or steel type moves existed in rby
  30. borat

    borat New Member

    Messages:
    117
    This sounds better than that one idea rky2k10 community had about remaking (sorry, "balancing") every single pokemon to their own desire. Nostalgia is still first and foremost why most people play these two gens. Why take that away?

    Anyway, good work.
  31. Golden Gyarados

    Golden Gyarados New Member

    Messages:
    7
    What's your stance on the logic behind Gen I TMs that weren't TMs in Gen II? In your example with Meganium, you gave it Body Slam, and Swords Dance from TM because it could get those moves through breeding or other means in Gen II. However, what about things like Mimic or Substitute, which all Gen I Pokemon could learn - can any Gen II Pokemon get it now? Additionally, Body Slam had a very wide distribution as a TM in Gen I, but minimal distribution in Gen II as a level up or breeding move. From a logic standpoint, there are probably Pokemon that, had they existed in Gen I, would have been compatible with the Body Slam TM, even if they never got Body Slam through breeding.

    Are you taking the logic-based approach to all TMs to say, "Even though the Pokemon didn't learn this in Gen II, because of its TM status in Gen I it probably would have been compatible" on a case-by-case basis?

    I think there are a ton of Gen I TMs that could be evaluated on a case-by-case basis for logical compatibility, but the ones with the most competitive impact would be Body Slam, Thunder Wave, Rock Slide, Reflect, Mimic, Seismic Toss, Counter, Submission, Bubblebeam, Double Edge, Swords Dance ...

    As examples:

    Body Slam: I feel like a lot of Pokemon would be eligible for this, like Typhlosion (Charizard got it in Gen I), or Heracross (Pinsir got it in Gen I)
    Rock Slide: If Dugtrio and other grounds can get it in Gen I, Donphan would probably have gotten it, too. Plus Donphan got other rock TMs like Rollout in Gen II.
    Thunder Wave: Granbull would probably get it if Chansey, Wigglytuff, and Clefable did. Xatu would probably get it if most of the other Gen I psychics did

    Etc
  32. Isa

    Isa RBY guy

    Messages:
    465
    This is how it works, yes. Each individual Pokémon, from Chikorita to Celebi, will get a check of RBY TM moves and given those that seem apt. Crystal is very serious about making them right and has researched trends, and I believe that the end product will be very neat.
  33. Crystal_

    Crystal_ New Member

    Messages:
    156
    First off, TM/HM moves available in RBY 251 are only the TMs/HMs available in RBY.

    Out of these 55 (50 TM + 5 HM), there are different cases (if a move satisfies 2 or more of the following critera, whichever criterion is first takes precedence):

    Moves learned by every Pokemon in RBY with the exceptions being only Caterpie, Kakuna, Magicarp etc. -> Every GSC Pokemon except Unown and Wobbuffet (and Smeargle who learns everything via Sketch aka level) learns them in RBY 251. Examples: Mimic, Rest.

    Moves that are also TMs/HMs in GSC -> If a Pokemon learns it in GSC, the Pokemon learns it in RBY 251. Examples: Fire Blast, Fly.

    Moves that can be learned by tutor in GSC -> If a Pokemon learns it in GSC, the Pokemon learns it in RBY 251. Examples: Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Flamethrower.

    Moves that can be learned by TM/tutor in ADV -> If a Pokemon learns it in ADV, the Pokemon learns it in RBY 251. Examples: Counter, Body Slam, Sowrds Dance.

    (if a Pokemon can learn a move via breeding but can NOT learn it via TM/tutor, it does NOT learn it in RBY 251). Example: Mantine and Rock Slide (I can't remember more atm).

    There is a very small number of justified exceptions to these rules. Examples: Hitmontop and Rock Slide (the other hitmons don't learn it in RBY), Espeon/Umbreon and Cut (the other eons don't learn it in RBY). The main exception is Reflect, which has a much wider compatibility in RBY than in ADV, where it is a tutor move.

    Reflect and the moves that don't belong to any of the previous criteria have their compatibility chosen according to RBY trends. For example, only Pokemon that can stand in two legs learn Submission, and, like in RBY as well, Psychic and Psywave are learned by the same Pokemon, and the same for Water Gun and BubbleBeam. In addition, Mega Drain <-> Giga Drain, and Skull Bash <-> Headbutt, because of the very similar spread in GSC.

    Hopefully this has helped everybody interested in RBY 251 understand how it's exactly being made!

    For more information check the spreadsheet, which includes the special stat and the TM/HM moves of each Pokemon. For even more info, read the comments in the spreadsheet. The spreadsheet has been set to "view only" since everything is already done.

    Thanks to everyone who showed interetest, and especially Dr.Fuji and Isa for helping out! RBY 251 will be playable very soon! :)
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2013
  34. Gremlin X

    Gremlin X New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Unown will hit a super-effectice damage against Alakazam, because it can learn only the Hidden Power, so will can learn a Hidden Power Dark or Hiden Power Steel. Only Unown will learn a Dark move and a Steel move, and don't forget Hidden Power Dragon for a REAL damage.

    Awesome !!!
  35. Crystal_

    Crystal_ New Member

    Messages:
    156
    Well, Unown has no moves...
  36. Isa

    Isa RBY guy

    Messages:
    465
    You don't think he gets HP as a signature move then? ;p
  37. Crystal_

    Crystal_ New Member

    Messages:
    156
    lol when/if I actually manage to get the mod work properly then we can move on to these kind of details.
  38. _DRAKE

    _DRAKE New Member

    Messages:
    4
    I like a lot this project. Support from me. T-up
  39. Crystal_

    Crystal_ New Member

    Messages:
    156
    Right now everything regarding the moves data has already been implemented and is working correctly; However, there is an issue with the special stat that I don't know how to fix. This is the only thing preventing RBY 251 from being playable already, so if someone knows about mods and can help me fix the issue I'll really appreciate it and RBY 251 will finally be able to go live! The thread explaining the bug can be found here. Any help is welcome!
  40. Crystal_

    Crystal_ New Member

    Messages:
    156
    RBY 251 has gone live! You can play it ALREADY! Check the first post!

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