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[BW2 Ubers] Rain Dance (Drizzle) Water Mono Team

Discussion in 'Teams' started by wilmer007, Sep 24, 2011.

Moderators: fitzy
  1. wilmer007

    wilmer007 New Member

    Messages:
    124
    Hello and welcome to my Wifi Uber Mono Rain Dance Team. I've been using this team for months in the Wifi Uber Tier and i've had my ups and downs as i've gone to 1201 from its early days to at this present time it is 1247 (it took a while to get back to 1200 after losing battles). Also note that its at 1247 for all tiers since i don't stick to Wifi Uber Tier Only. Anyway everyone will say that Mono Teams are no good but this one in particular is (since it's water mono), well at least the way i use it. I personally like it when i make someone rage quit with UU when they have an entire Uber Team as i love shutting down Uber Teams with under dogs and with this you will surely have lots ot time and fun shutting down those Uber Teams. I've included the Threat List that was generated from eRMT. Personally i don't think it's accurate in Threats since i see most of these so called "threats" and handle them very easily. Maybe it's because of my prediction skills or something else but i handle them just fine.

    This team's playstyle revolves around countering what your opponent does. So if your opponent brings in a pokemon to counter your pokemon you switch out and counter that pokemon as needed. Keep in mind that the one flaw to this team is that if your opponent counters you because your countering him then this team will run into problems. Half of the team is bulky and/or designed to stall and troll all at the same time; while the other half is designed to revenge kill.

    Every pokemon on this Team has a Mooch Nickname. This is because they all Mooch off of Drizzle. Feel free to use the Mooch Nicknames or remove them if you like.

    Also Note that i've made quite a few edits to further help out the team by adding in futher details which include weakness and tweaks.

    The Original Tried and Tested Team is down in the Importable with the adjustments within the actual pokemon's analysis.




    So anyways without further ado let's get into the one and only Mono Mooching Drizzle team: ^_^




    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]






    [​IMG] MoochOgre @ Leftovers / Chesto Berry
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef/Def or 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SDef or 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk) or Bold/Calm
    - Calm Mind / Rest
    - Thunder
    - Ice Beam
    - Surf

    Ah yes the lead of any Rain Dance / Drizzle Team and the King of Kings when it comes to ultimate Mooching. If it's not Kyogre it's Politoed. Some people ask me why i use Kyogre over Politoed, and the reason for that is basically just for clutch situations and weather control. Believe it or not i rarely use Kyogre in any of my matches unless he's either one of my last 2-3 pokemons, weather control (such as a T-Tar/Groudon switching in to control weather) or if theres is a high threat lead (such as Swords Dancing Arceus). If theres a lead threat like Swords Dancing Arceus or something like a Forrestress Leading off to setup Spikes, Stealth Rock, Toxic Spikes i will Surf it to death otherwise i just switch out. Now who do i switch out to well that depends on who the lead is. But 90% of the time i switch to Lanturn to absorb Electric Attacks since Leads tend to have Electric Attacks since most people use Rain Dance Teams so i predict it and get a free switch to control the match in my favor from the start. I let Kyogre take sleeps from Dark Void and Spore or use him as a suicide if theres no Weather Control Pokemon such as T-Tar, Groudon, Abomasnow. Calm Mind is there just so that i can get one or two free boosts otherwise it's sweep time. Chesto Rest also works if you want to heal after Groudon weakens Kyogre on the switch to keep Rain going. Nature and EV Spread depends on if you want Offense or Defense Kyogre and if you want it to withstand Groudon's Earthquake on the switch in.

    [​IMG] MoochDra or KingMooch or MoochKing @ Leftovers / Life Orb / Choice Specs
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef or 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Dragon Pulse / Draco Meteor
    - Ice Beam
    - Surf
    - HP Electric / HP Fighting / Signal Beam

    Yes the almighty Special Sweeping Kingdra with the ever impressive 412 Speed in Rain. This guy has 3 nicknames because any of it's nicknames work well with what he does (which of course is Mooch off of Drizzle and be the King of Special Sweeping in Rain). Very few times has it ever been out speed and it's usually do to a Dragon Uber who has to resort to Outrage (yes i' am ranting since Outrage is OP with it's 100 Accuracy and 120 Base Power it needs to be nerfed). If Rayquaza is on the field just switch out since you'll probably die before you get to Ice Beam it to death. Don't bother using it against other Dragon Ubers unless they have been reduced to 50% health first. Draco Meteor works against the Uber Dragons though but i hated losing because Draco Meteor misses at times (not to mention switching out or lowering your Special Attack in the process). Other than these Threats just go ahead and sweep everything else in it's path. Ferrothorn is 3-5 KO so Kingdra has it's work cut out for Ferrothorn. HP Electric is about a 3KO to a full health Kyogre and most of the time you won't be using HP Electric anyways since i've noticed it to be rather weak. It's only there for weak water types or Gyarados. Don't be afraid to sacrifice another pokemon to bring in kingdra to the Dragon/Flying Type to Ice Beam them to death just make sure to choose the correct pokemon to sacrifice depending on what pokemons he has and what pokemons you still have alive and their health. You can also replace Leftovers with Choice Specs or Life Orb and replace Dragon Pulse for Draco Meteor is you want more power with less accuracy. If you want more speed pour the Special Defense EVs into Speed instead. You can also use HP Fighting instead of HP Electric if you want to deal with Ferrothorns and Swords Dancing Normal Arceus (Extreme Killer) with ease not to mention you get more type coverage than if you use HP Electric. Keep in mind though that HP Fighting will cause 30 IVs to SpD, SpA, Spe, and Def so your main stats will drop a little but Steel Types will give you less trouble now since Steel Types resist to your other 3 attacks and you get to give T-Tar a nice beating (even though Surf and Ice Beam already took care of T-Tar anyway). Obviously stay away from HP Fire since it will be weakened in Rain. If Celebi gives you problems since Azumarill couldn't handle Celebi then you can replace Hidden Power for Signal Beam to quickly OHKO it.


    [​IMG] MoochZuMarill @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sap Sipper
    EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Substitute
    - Brick Break
    - Ice Punch
    - Waterfall

    You may be saying why Azumarill with Sap Sipper and i get that asked alot time and time again and the reason is simple... Anti-Ferrothorn ... which is why i started using one with Sap Sipper since i couldn't stand Ferrothorns as they gave me alot of headaches. 95% of my matches Ferrothorn is history right away (just ask all the Ferrothorns who have died to this Azumarill). He's given the nickname of MoochZuMarill simply because he Mooches off of Drizzle and Grass Attacks since he gets a free switch in and a boost to his attack when you predict a Grass Attack thanks to his Immunity to all Grass Attacks including Spore. But don't let this little guy fool you as you also be amazed how much it works wonders on this Mono Rain Dance Team. It has 327 Attack with 1 boost from Sap Sipper, 436 Attack from a second one (if their that dumb to boost you again). I know it's not the same as 600+ with Huge Power but i'll take 100% Attack Reduction and immunity anyday, especially when 600+ is overkill. Since water is weak to grass Azumarill will absorb all the grass moves so that leaves Electric as the other remaining weakness (which Lanturn will be covering). Since you can't use Super Power with Ice Punch and or Sap Sipper Azumarill has to use Brick Break Instead. Oh no it's Breloom or Smeragle with Spore what we will ever do? Watch his face turn blue when he sees Spore won't work around these parts. See a Ferrothorn? No Problem for Azumarill as Brick Break will 2-3KO once it gets a boost from Power Whip or Leech Seed. As long as you switch in to Ferrothorn without it using Toxic or T-Wave Azumarill will be fine since you'll use Substitute the next turn. Even T-Wave isn't going to hurt Azumarill much so it will be okay since it will still be faster than Ferrothorn. If he switches out Ferrothorn then you switch out too. Other than Grass Types and Ferrothorn i just use Azumarill as one of my suicide pokemons (i have up to 4 suicide pokemons depending on what pokemons i'm up against). Usually i suicide him to Sword Dancing Arceus since i get to weaken it with Waterfall or Brick Break for Kabutops to finish it off or i let him take the Dark Void Sleep from Darkrai and switch out so Sleep Clause kicks in. Be careful though since a smart player using Arceus can keep Swords Dancing and not take out Azumarill right away and then Kabutops (and your entire team) is in real big trouble.


    [​IMG] MoochHax @ Leftovers
    Trait: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 128 HP / 252 Def / 128 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Thunder
    - Thunder Wave
    - Confuse Ray
    - Surf

    Oh yeah the powerhouse of any Rain Dance Team. Why no one hardly uses this little guy is beyond me as i even use Lanturn on some of my other teams. Lanturn is given the nickname of MoochHax because of his incredible Haxing Ability (thanks to absorbing Electric Moves and haxing his foe at the same time). This UU little guy has survived Earthquake from a Groudon a couple of times and has gotten my opponents to actually ask me how he survived one Earthquake. This guy will take Special Attacks and will return with parafuse hax as it's retaliation. Oh look a Kyogre mirror match to leadoff. Bam shutdown on the switch and who has the advantage now. Ubers run in fear when they see this little guy coming into the field. Zekrom is the only one who will go around Volt Absorb so to counter that i will suicide a pokemon (such as Kyogre or Azumarill) so Lanturn comes in to Zekrom with full health so it can fight, otherwise Zekrom will KO it long before Lanturn uses T-Wave. The other guy has a Groudon in his team? No problem just leadoff with Confuse Ray so you can catch it on the switch and then you can switch out and try and get a free switch in to Kyogre perhaps. Lanturn getting low on health? Just switch out and wait for free Electric Heals to save the day. Lanturn has personally made a ton of my opponents just rage quit when he parafuse haxes him and slowly cripples the likes of Mewtwo with followup Surf Spams. Whatever pokemon that isn't Ground or Grass Lanturn has them covered with his parafuse hax into surf spam galore.

    [​IMG] MoochiTrolol @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 252 Def / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Leech Seed
    - Surf
    - Protect

    Alright it's time for Rey Mysterio the Heavyweight Champion of the World. I nicknamed him MoochiTrolol because he mooches off of Drizzle and Leech Seed and Trolls the opponent all day long. This guy single handly takes down an entire Uber Team by himself with Leech Seed and Sub+Protect Wall. I like to parafuse hax with Lanturn first and then bring in Ludi to setup the Stall Wall. Oh no little billy is using Calm Mind/Bulk Up to boost his uber... Yeah Okay!!!! Good Luck Hiiting this Wall. Sure Ludi may run out of PP during a PP Stall War but you never actually killed it since you couldn't hit it. Oh look theres a Blissey how cute but around here Blisseys are no good. Lum Berry is there so he can safely switch into the likes of Blissey with Toxic or any pokemon trying to inflict status conditions on Ludis fellow comrades. It's also there so that he can safely Leech Seed Kyogre since Kyogre will be using Thunder so Lum Berry will remove the 30% of Thunder causing paralysis and can wall it to death with no problems after healing itself. Also if Ludi is slower than the other pokemon don't panic because sometimes it's a good thing since you can still wall it to death and get a sub when it dies, so Ludi will have a sub already up for the new pokemon so a easy Leech Seed is next followed by more easy walling. If you want better subs for special walling you can remove the Defense EV's and pour them into HP and 20 EV's into Defense if you like, i however like that like this he can take physical attacks too. If a Grass comes in just switch to Azumarill. Flying attacks rarely gonna out speed Ludi and if they do you can switch out. Poison Types are usually all slower so poison moves are no problem for Ludi and his walling. Ninjask with X-Scissor is the only thing faster than Ludi that can pose a real threat as Ludi will be faster than 90% of all pokemon out there (unless you take into account loss of Rain and quick claw or choice scarf pokemon). Toxicroak with Dry Skin basically shuts down this Ludi so you have to switch out to Lanturn to Parafuse hax + Thunder it to death since Toxicroak will also give everyone else on your team headaches. Also keep in mind that any priority move like Extreme Speed will give Ludi trouble unless he's able to Surf it to death before he gets KO'd. He can also wall Priority Moves well as long as he has high health at the start or that his sub wasn't broken earlier since he has to sub the priority move with extra health. He also needs to setup Leech Seed to a priority move pokemon and thats where the weakness lies since he eats a couple of Extreme Speeds just to set up Leech Seed with the followups right after that he has to endure. Any successful Drizzle Team needs this guy around as he will get the job done no matter what pokemon it's up against (unless it's a Grass, Toxicroak or Ninjask of Course). If Ludi is getting low on health since it wasn't able to set up Leech Seed or Priority Moves are hurting Ludi then don't be afraid to switch out, since you can always use Lanturn to set up parafuse hax then you can bring back Ludi and take advantage of the parafuse hax to set up a Leech Seed and get back to walling.

    [​IMG] KaMoochTops @ Life Orb / Choice Band
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance / Night Slash
    - Waterfall
    - Stone Edge
    - Low Kick


    Now finally we come to the deadly Kabutops. This guy i added in late as i was still looking for good water pokemon (especially a physical sweeper which i was lacking) and came across Kabutops. This god like of a pokemon has an unheard of 518 Speed in Rain. There is nothing faster in the world so speed is not a problem (unless they have quick claw or a priority move like Mach Punch of course). You can use Aqua Jet in place of Swords Dance or Waterfall if you want to work around Bullet Punch/Mach Punch pokemon but i don't since it's a waste to me as i don't mind him dieing if he already took out a couple of pokemon before he died and by then his health is low anyway thanks to Life Orb. I don't use Swords Dance unless theres a Blissey before i Low Kick it to death or Lanturn got the parafuse hax in then i will switch to Kabutops for hopefully the free Swords Dance and go for the win right then and there or take out at least half his team before Kabutops dies. This is my go to guy to quickly kill Arceus and Darkrai. Oh look it's another Sword Dancing Arceus or Nasty Plotting Darkrai with Dark Void. After a suicide pokemon takes one for the team (since Kabutops cannot OHKO Arceus unless it's a critical), he'll be hating Kabutops after his Low Kick has something to say about it as Extreme Speed will not OHKO Kabutops (even with one Sword Dance). If it's Ghost then Waterfall will still hurt long before Kabutops goes down but not without a fight. Dialga doesn't stand a chance as Low Kick will OHKO or at the very least leave it screaming for a medic to Wish it back to health. Also Giratina is a problem for Kabutops since Stone Edge or Waterfall will 2-3KO without Swords Dance and Shadow Sneak doesn't help when Kabutops is usually low on health by the time it does anything to Giratina. You can also replace Swords Dance and Life Orb for Night Slash and Choice Band if you want to take out Giratina with ease.




    Threats:
    [​IMG]Excadrill-
    [​IMG]Conkeldurr-
    [​IMG]Hydreigon-
    [​IMG]Volcarona-
    [​IMG]Terrakion-
    [​IMG]Landorus-
    [​IMG]Chandelure-
    [​IMG]Haxorus-
    [​IMG]Virizion-
    [​IMG]Thundurus-
    [​IMG]Scrafty-
    [​IMG]Reuniclus-
    [​IMG]Victini-
    [​IMG]Mienshao-
    [​IMG]Darmanitan-
    [​IMG]Keldeo-
    [​IMG]Genesect-
    [​IMG]Tornadus-
    [​IMG]Latias-
    [​IMG]Garchomp-
    [​IMG]Salamence-
    [​IMG]Cloyster-
    [​IMG]Politoed-
    [​IMG]Venusaur-
    [​IMG]Ninetails-
    [​IMG]Toxicroak-
    [​IMG]Breloom-
    [​IMG]Ditto-
    [​IMG]Scizor-
    [​IMG]Ludicolo-
    [​IMG]Metagross-
    [​IMG]Infernape-
    [​IMG]Heatran-
    [​IMG]Dragonite-
    [​IMG]Whimsicott-
    [​IMG]Jirachi-
    [​IMG]Rotom-W-
    [​IMG]Gyarados-
    [​IMG]Suicune-
    [​IMG]Kabutops-
    [​IMG]Tyranitar-
    [​IMG]Gliscor-


    Some Noticeable High Threats (as determined by my own personal experience):

    Toxic Spikes
    Stealth Rock
    Spikes
    Arceus
    Darkrai
    Giratina
    Ferrothorn
    Toxicroak
    Ninjask
    Shedinja
    Celebi
    T-Tar
    Abomasnow
    Groudon
    Shaymin-S
    Breloom
    Cloyster
    Quasire
    Suicune
    Swampert
    Gastrodon
    Palkia
    Manaphy
    Jellicent
    Xatu
    Espeon
    Magnezone
    Zekrom
    Reuniclus
    Azelf


    Importable
    MoochOgre (Kyogre) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Thunder
    - Ice Beam
    - Surf

    MoochDra (Kingdra) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Ice Beam
    - Surf
    - Hidden Power [Electric]

    MoochZuMarill (Azumarill) (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sap Sipper
    EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Substitute
    - Brick Break
    - Ice Punch
    - Waterfall

    MoochHax (Lanturn) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 128 HP / 252 Def / 128 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Thunder
    - Thunder Wave
    - Confuse Ray
    - Surf

    MoochiTrolol (Ludicolo) (M) @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 252 Def / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Leech Seed
    - Surf
    - Protect

    KaMoochTops (Kabutops) (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Waterfall
    - Stone Edge
    - Low Kick[/HIDE]



    Sorry for the Big Wall of Text for each pokemon, but i felt you should know how i use each pokemon (along with other optional changes you may like to use) and some of their weakness so you are prepared to counter each weakness.
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2011
  2. Latias11

    Latias11 New Member

    Messages:
    171
    If your having trouble with Ferrothorn, why not replace Azumarill (who will be dead weight without ferro on the opposing team) with Lustrous Orb Palkia. It lures Ferro and Chansey by appearing choiced, when Fire Blast and Outrage 2KO them both, even in rain. This is the set:

    [secret]Palkia @ Lustrous Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
    - Outrage
    - Surf
    - Fire Blast
    - Spacial Rend[/secret]

    I would also move Kingdra's 252 Sp.Defense evs to Speed, as 412 speed isn't great and will be outsped by most scarfers. HP electric isn't that brillant either, as 3KOing Kyogre has a 30% chance of getting you para'd by Thunder. Try replacing it with Draco Meteor, as you can use Dragon Pulse when you need consistancy, and Draco Meteor when you need power. I'm not sold on Lanturn either, but I'm too tired right now.

    Also, you have the OU threat list, the Uber one is here http://pastebin.com/fqi162pb
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2011
  3. wilmer007

    wilmer007 New Member

    Messages:
    124
    I hate having Ubers in my teams (since i consider n00bs having to resort to ubers to win unless of course someone like me who doesn't actually use ubers even if they are in the team) so i like to use OU and UU. I'm only in Wifi Ubers because i have Kyogre who i rarely use. He's there mostly for the Drizzle and the occasional clutch moments and thats it. Me being in Wifi Ubers without a Uber and winning matches says alot. I have a team with Arceus Extreme Killer and trust me i quickly stop using it because it's too easy when your using ubers. Being able to take out an entire uber team will Ludicolo, Lanturn and Sap Sipper Azumarill is more fun for me than to resort to ubers.

    Also yes without ferrothorn in their team Azumarill is useless but not entirely. He can take care of Grass like Shaymin-S and for me he's an easy choice to suicide with. If i win matches with just half a team and the other half are suicides then i'm obviously doing something good as you need actual skills and prediction skills with a little bit of luck to pulloff handicap wins.

    Also trust me this Lanturn is very good. Makes alot of ppl ragequit and can live Earthquakes occasionally like a boss. This lanturn can actually take Grass Attacks from a non Grass Type pokemon and then the parafuse hax will allow Lanturn to recover the lost HP with Leftovers and the eventual slow painful death soon right after for Lanturn's opponent.
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2011
  4. wilmer007

    wilmer007 New Member

    Messages:
    124
    Hmm now you got me thinking of using Palkia even though i really don't want to. Mostly because he can still wall Grass just like Azumarill with more flexability in the process and i can also use a good Mix Sweeper at the same time.

    I'm thinking:

    Palkia @ Lustrous Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
    - Aqua Tail
    - Surf
    - Fire Blast
    - Spacial Rend

    I also went ahead and pour 252 Speed EV's into Kingdra and replaced HP Electric for Signal Beam and its doing good so far.
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2011
  5. Wander

    Wander Shitty Wizard

    Messages:
    1,249
    Foe's Arceus used Swords Dance!

    That text pops up a lot in Ubers. What can your team do to stop that Arceus?
    And it's an Uber tier, nothing wrong with using Ubers.
    Also, I find it strange that your threat list is a composition of OU/UU Pokemon.
  6. wilmer007

    wilmer007 New Member

    Messages:
    124
    If you read the analysis of Kabutops you'll see how Swords Dancing Arceus stands no chance against Kabutops and his Low Kick. Either parafuse Arceus with Lanturn and risk getting lucky with a free swords dance to Kabutops; or use whatever pokemon you have on the field and use Surf to weaken Arceus during the turn Arceus is using Swords Dance. Then since you already know Extreme Speed is coming next you let Arceus kill whatever pokemon you can risk losing (such as Azumarill) and then Kabutops comes in with Low Kick. Usually in my case it's kyogre and azumarill since those are the pokes i hardly use as the others can handle ubers with no problems.

    Everytime i see Swords Dancing uber i love it cuz i already know it's not going to be doing anything to me (especially not doing any sweeping).

    So if you see he has an arceus just don't bring out Kabutops and save it for arceus so Kabutops can take Extreme Speed and Low Kick or Water Fall after it has been weaken (or if Kabutops already has Swords Dance then it's a OHKO). Also the same thing is done to Dialga; you weaken it with one Surf so Kabutops and his Low Kick can KO (just don't let Kabutops take damage). Kabutops needs to come in with full health to start sweeping. You cannot switch him in unless you got a parafuse hax.
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2011
  7. Project Oppenheimer

    Project Oppenheimer [1]

    Messages:
    1,395
    252Atk Life Orb Kabutops (+Atk) Low Kick vs 252HP/0Def Leftovers Multitype Arceus (Neutral): 65% - 77% (292 - 344 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    All right, so that works. But how does Kabutops take an earthquake?
    252Atk Multitype Arceus (+Atk) Earthquake vs 4HP/0Def Leftovers Kabutops (Neutral): 83% - 98% (218 - 258 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    Factor in your LO recoil and Kabutops is instantly dead. Then Arceus proceeds to rape your team.

    Also, how does your team deal with Sun teams at all? Once Kyogre is down, your whole team is destroyed, by, say, Venusaur (YES I RUN VENUSAUR IN UBERS).

    And the fact that Ninjask is high on your threat list speaks volumes about this team.

    Zekrom + Groudon combo ruins this team completely. Groudon shuts off weather. Zekrom uses Fusion Bolt / Dragon Claw / Outrage to tear apart every member of the team very quickly.
  8. wilmer007

    wilmer007 New Member

    Messages:
    124
    ^ with the constant surf spams eventually kyogre will dominate rain since his entire team will eventually get worn down by the barrages of surf spams headed his way and swift swim surf finishes them off if you lose a poke in the process. Most of these pokemon (if not all of them) are designed to take blows and/or usually 2-3KO anything it's up aganst with Surf Spams. I don't know if SpecsOgre can OHKO Groudon but i know for a fact that ScarfOgre will 2KO it with Ice Beam. When you factor in, that that is the standard leadoff matchup most of the time Kyogre will Ice Beam it to death and win the weather control battle. Also if groudon is out theres always suiciding your weakest poke to bring in kyogre to regain the weather control and deal some free damage to whoever Ice Beam/Water Spout/Surf hits.

    Also yes Kabutops will die to Earthquake but be honest when was the last time you saw a Sword Dancing Arceus with Earthquake? Since they all carry Extreme Speed, Recover, and Shadow Claw or Shadow Force. Also if he's using Earthquake he still won't be going first and when was the last time you saw a poke with over 518 Speed that can use Earthquake? The whole idea is that surf will weaken Arceus enough so that Kabutops comes in and guarantees death to Low Kick or Water Fall (the latter for Arceus Ghost). It's no different than Arceus using Swords Dance and dies to a critical hit attack before it does anything. Obviously Earthquake Support from another pokemon will ruin the counter but hey that's part of the luck and countering aspect of competitve play. Besides that earthquake poke will be too busy dealing with all the other waters giving his team a headache.

    Zekrom isn't doing anything because Lanturn Walls Zekrom when you give up a poke for Lanturn to hax it to death slow and painfully.

    The only way Arceus is stoping Kabutops is with a +4 Extreme Speed since +2 is still not enough (even with Stealth Rock).

    Also ninjask is on the high threat list only for his Speed Boost and his ability to outspeed and take down Ludi with X-Scissor. Surf Spams, Thunder and Ice Beams are going to force Ninjask to baton pass without the sub allowing Lanturn to come in and T-wave whatever it Baton Passes to; therefore negating the speed boost purpose (that is unless of course he BP to Groudon)..

    Groudon is the only true threat to this team that needs to be dealth with first at all costs. He maybe switching out to regain the weather control but the switching with just wear down his other pokes with all the Surf Spams they have to endure.
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2011
  9. Project Oppenheimer

    Project Oppenheimer [1]

    Messages:
    1,395
    No, you don't get it. Say a CB Groudon comes in, what the hell do you do? You're completely devastated by it. Kyogre comes in. Oops, OHKO'd with little prior damage. Then you lose, instantly, because your team can't do ANYTHING in sun. You need a better way to deal with Sun.
  10. wilmer007

    wilmer007 New Member

    Messages:
    124
    Kyogre comes in with Full Health so it gets the advantage. Now i don't know if CB Groudon is a OHKO to Kyogre (perhaps not with a defensive EV Spread) but CB will keep forcing him out and i regain the weather while his poke get weaker from surf spams. If i see him constantly bringing in CB Groudon then i try Ludi as ludi can still wall Groudon's Earthquake. If he switches out to pick a new move and Ludi is still alive then Ludi can still Wall it in Sun and start wearing it down. I've done that alot lately (not sure if those Groudon's were CB or not), but anyway while he may be the biggest threat to this team he needs the right support who can take Ice Beams, Surf, and Thunder and hardly no uber can deal with that 3 type assault.

    I would say every single match i've ever lost has been because of a Groudon and only Groudon and definately not Grass Types using Solar Beam. One poke is still very much doable and well if the team loses to a Groudon then you know what one pokemon is still worth the risk. No team build is ever perfect so having just one major weakness still makes it very good. The simple fact that the way i was using it by making myself extremely handicap by using only half a team against ubers that were OU and UU without Kyogre alone (only for his Drizzle and weather control) shows that the team is good when rain is effect. Yes it's got weaknesses but it also has a little bit of Luck so it's a little bit of High Risk High Reward and it's a Mono Team for crying out loud. Even if this Mono Team makes it to like 1400-1500 rating you can't say it does bad for what it is.
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2011
  11. Wander

    Wander Shitty Wizard

    Messages:
    1,249
    I still fail to see how you effectively handle a +2 Arceus.
    Kabutops can't get a Swords Dance off if he's 2HKO'd by EQ + Espeed.
    Low Kick can do up to 70% unboosted, big whoop, that might work if you have Spikes or even Stealth Rocks, but your team sees no hazard support or a decent defensive core (No, Lanturn doesn't cut it).

    I realize this is a Mono team, I respect that;
    But in the actual Wifi Uber tier, I don't see this team winning you much matches.
  12. wilmer007

    wilmer007 New Member

    Messages:
    124
    OMG you guys just don't get it. He WON'T Survive Earthquake + ESpeed. The whole idea is that Kabutops can't take damage since his Life Orb is eating up all his health. A pokemon using Earthquake has to deal with the other waters so minus Groudon they will all be too busy with the other 5 waters. Other than EQ + ESpeed nothing is going to stop Kabutops from taking out Arceus.

    Like i said a million times before this may not work in higher ratings but in the low-middle ratings of Wifi Uber i have done a million matches and have rarely ran into EQ then +2 ESpeed. You know full well everyone is to busy bringing in Arceus to get a free swords dance that they forget about the poke that can take ESpeed and Revenge Kill; and Kabutops does a fine job of taking a +2 ESpeed then revenge killing Arceus once Arceus get weakned by a surf from one of the other poke.

    And can everyone please stop saying that Lanturn doesn't cut it cuz he does. This guy takes Earthquake like a boss. He took a +1 Earthquake from DDance Rayquaza this morning and the guy lost his Rayquaza soon after. He may not cut it high ratings but he DOES cut it in low and mid ratings of Wifi Ubers. Geez i have used this team for months against plenty of <1200 full uber teams to know what i'm talking about.


    You guys are too busy caring so much about high ratings when this team is clearly not designed for high ratings. It's designed for low-mid ratings and trolling your opponent with UU poke like Azumarill and Lanturn. Give this team some slack it packs a punch for such a handicapped team.


    I've entered probably less than 10 Wifi Uber Tours with this team and i've won 2 or 3 so come on don't tell me the team isn't decent at least especially when i was playing handicap and the tours i did not win i sure as hell gave the uber teams a very close and exciting match. 20%-33% chance of winning Wifi Uber Tours with this handicap team is very good in my book.
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2011
  13. Project Oppenheimer

    Project Oppenheimer [1]

    Messages:
    1,395
    >1200 uber teams
    Start playing the tier, bro. Plus, Kyogre itself lays ruin to this team. Nothing can come in on specsogre's devastating attacks. What's more, nothing can come in on a free turn and attempt to kill it, either. Specsogre just RUINS this team. If you can't revenge it, you have a problem.
    Run SD Arceus Water if you want to keep the monotheme, it can at least come in on surf and have half a chance.
  14. wilmer007

    wilmer007 New Member

    Messages:
    124
    I tried Arceus Water it didn't work out and thats when i found Kabutops. I also tried Manaphy. Another thing lanturn takes all kyogres down. If it uses water spout lanturn loses 50% health but guess what ludicolo only takes 25% so ludi comes in and walls it to death.
  15. Project Oppenheimer

    Project Oppenheimer [1]

    Messages:
    1,395
    Your Lanturn is often OHKO'd by Water Spout. Do your calcs first. Ludicolo is ruined by Thunder, can't safely switch in without knowing it's locked into water spout.
  16. wilmer007

    wilmer007 New Member

    Messages:
    124
    Ludi can wall all 3 main attacks with no problems. If kyogre is locked into Water Spout Ludi takes 25% on the switch in. If he's locked into Thunder then Lanturn comes in and heals up and hax it so ludi can try and come in and sub and wall it to death like always. Getting by parafuse will not be easy so Ludi can basically come into Locked Thunder and laugh at Kyogre. Lanturn can also stay into locked Thunder further healing back all his lost HP and KOing Kyogre to death with Thunder. So yes they both wall Kyogre leaving kyogre to not do anything and die a slow painful death.
  17. -Minutemaid-

    -Minutemaid- New Member

    Messages:
    35
    Actually Kyogre cant ruin this team. Kyogre is the only thing this team can counter. But yea, I get your point, it gets destroyed by almost everything else.
  18. Wander

    Wander Shitty Wizard

    Messages:
    1,249
    So your Arceus check is stopped by a really common Arceus set? Interesting.

    Yeah, I get it's handicapped, You won't stop going on about it.
    No, 1200 Rating in Ubers is not impressive.
    So you won 3 Tours with this team, big whoop.
    <1200 full Uber teams? Please, take on the real Uber players for once.
    Yeh, it's decent for a Mono team in Ubers, seeing as there are only what? 10 Other teams to compare them to?

    Anyway, since We're going too far from the actual topic of the thread, and my posts fail to reach you;
    I'll end this off here.
  19. wilmer007

    wilmer007 New Member

    Messages:
    124
    No it's not that you guys are not getting through to me it's just that you guys are clearly talking about a Arceus with EQ + ESpeed which Giratina - O laughs at. Remember that 99% of Arceus carry swords dance and recover as their other two moves so not only does Skarmory laugh at ESpeed and Earthquake but not having Shadow Claw will make taking out Tanking Giratina a difficult task before it gets in it's Roar or DTail.

    If you take out Recover Arceus is gonna eat a new one when hazards drain all it's health down and that is very risky with all the clone teams running around as they become a stall war over who's Cruel and Giratina dies first is the one who loses. And if Swords Dance gets taken out for the 3rd attack well that defeats the purpose of Extreme Killer Arceus and makes skarm walling much easier.

    The other player can bait and switch Arceus to use ESpeed until he runs out of ESpeed now what is Arceus going to do to skarmory and when skarmory runs low on roost from all the EQ he can always keep baiting and switching for free without wasting any of skarms PP making stalling that much harder for the guy using arceus. That is why Shadow Claw is a safer option for Arceus over EQ.

    So since that causes everyone to run Shadow Claw and not EQ, Kabutops takes advantage of it.
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2011
  20. Project Oppenheimer

    Project Oppenheimer [1]

    Messages:
    1,395
  21. wilmer007

    wilmer007 New Member

    Messages:
    124
    ^
    I have yet to run into a Arceus without Recover. Not saying it's bad without recover i'm just saying in the low-mid ratings they are not common hence why it still works until you run into that set.

    Don't say i don't have a giratina because now your not talking about this team anymore since now your talking about high level play


    Player 1 has No Recover Arceus = dies to Taunting Skarm during hazards , dies to Tanking Giratina that uses Dragon Tail even with +2 Shadow Claw without even using WoW. Dies to a faster Extreme Killer switch in when low on health if he comes in during your shadow claw.

    Player 2 has Recover but no Earthquake = still dies to Taunting Skarm (if Arceus is not the last one) but now lasts longer. Perhaps by using recover he can make skarm run out of PP Whirlwind for instance. If Arceus is the last one and the player has Perish Song with SkarmChan and Giratina you better out think your opponent during mind games and hope whatever move you use does not get absorb from immunity and even then Perish Song will kill you. He can also bait switch you into using extreme speed with his giratina until you run out of those 8 ESpeeds since you do not have recover. Had you have Recover during this bait switches you can recover so that you can't die from hazards during Whirlwind/DTail. Now your out of ESpeeds so Giratina and Skarmory just goes to town on your non recovery arceus with Whirlwind and DTail.

    Arceus with Brick Break > EQ still gets walled by Giratina. Mind games galore


    Arceus @ Life Orb / Choice Band
    Jolly/Adamant

    Shadow Claw
    Earthquake
    Extreme Speed
    Brick Break

    gets walled by Tanking Giratina (especially with D-Tail)
    Oh and SpecsOgre with Surf/Hydro Pump should KO it. Not sure if it does but it better have 252 HP or Sp. Defense EVS which still defeats the purpose of this set anyways.

    Mixed Arceus with Ice Beam? Well that can be a problem except where Perish Song with bait and switch wrecks it and you don't have recover to switch out from Perish Song so hazards still kill it.


    CM Arceus = Roared from a Jolly Giratina-O with quick claw/scarf or a arceus with roar carrying Jolly/Timid with Quick Claw or Scarf. Also gets KO'd by Kabutops Low Kick /Water Fall/Stone Edge



    Enough Said
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2011
  22. Project Oppenheimer

    Project Oppenheimer [1]

    Messages:
    1,395
    Who the hell uses a CB Arceus... might as well use a CB Groudon for actually doing any damage. Arceus wants SD, that's usually the only reason for physical.

    And how your opponent's team deals with other teams IS NOT YOUR CONCERN. If an opponent switches in Arceus, you will try and counter it. You will NOT say "Hm, I wonder how he did in his last battle against a Giratina which I have no clue if it exists! Let's assume the Giratina is WoW/Rest/SleepTalk/Dtail! So the opp is a CM arceus with Draco meteor! I'll send in Kyogre and tank it!"
    -Oops, it's Extremkiller with SD / Extremespeed / EQ / Shadow Claw! Guess it's GG!
  23. Latias11

    Latias11 New Member

    Messages:
    171
    How do you deal with scarf Skymin? Azumarill will die to air slashs (it takes 3 to KO, so it can switch in once, not counting any hazards or the 60% flinch chance) and it outspeeds everything bar Kingdra (and outspeeds even that if it's timid). Nothing else can really take seed flares (Ludicolo will be 2KO by air slash/sp.defense drop, Kyogre and Kingdra both take about 75-85%, Lanturn and Kabutops are OHKOd)

    [secret]252SpAtk Shaymin (+SAtk) Seed Flare vs 128HP/128SpDef Leftovers Volt Absorb Lanturn (Neutral): 103% - 121% (438 - 516 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.
    252SpAtk Shaymin (+SAtk) Seed Flare vs 0HP/252SpDef Leftovers Kyogre (Neutral): 74% - 87% (254 - 300 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    252SpAtk Shaymin (+SAtk) Seed Flare vs 4HP/0SpDef Leftovers Damp Kingdra (Neutral): 72% - 85% (211 - 250 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    252SpAtk Shaymin (+SAtk) Air Slash vs 4HP/240SpDef Leftovers Sap Sipper Azumarill (Neutral): 34% - 40% (118 - 139 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
    252SpAtk Shaymin (+SAtk) Seed Flare vs 4HP/240SpDef Leftovers Weak Armor Kabutops (Neutral): 311% - 366% (816 - 960 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.
    252SpAtk Shaymin (+SAtk) Seed Flare vs 0HP/252SpDef Leftovers Ludicolo (+SpDef): 48% - 57% (147 - 174 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 15% chance to 2HKO with Leftovers.
    252SpAtk Shaymin (+SAtk) Air Slash vs 0HP/252SpDef Leftovers Ludicolo (+SpDef): 61% - 72% (186 - 218 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.[/secret]
  24. wilmer007

    wilmer007 New Member

    Messages:
    124
    Shaymin isn't so hard to deal with but can be a problem at times. Azumarill just needs one Ice Punch which will be the switch in free boost into revenge kill ice punch. If azumarill dies Kabutops and Stone Edge says hi. :)
  25. Latias11

    Latias11 New Member

    Messages:
    171
    Scarf Skymin outspeeds Kabutops though, and your opponent will just go to something to take the weak Azumarill ice punch, then Shaymin-S comes in later and gets another kill.
  26. wilmer007

    wilmer007 New Member

    Messages:
    124
    Well if it is faster than 518 i'll take my chances i can always revenge kill with Kingdra if it outspeeds kabutops.
  27. Fate/Dracoflare

    Fate/Dracoflare Kayneth Fried Circuits

    Messages:
    444
    Use Politoed and play OU.Realise that you are gonna face Ubers in Uber tier and if you face anything else..it's obvious that your opponent is a gimmick player or a noob.
    Your threat list doesn't mention a single Uber Pokemon.Who the hell would use a mienshao in Ubers?
    A noob perhaps...
  28. Buneary

    Buneary Member

    Messages:
    133
    I actually peaked in the 1400s with a team that had mienshao in ubers.
  29. Project Oppenheimer

    Project Oppenheimer [1]

    Messages:
    1,395
    Mienshao is actually pretty good in Ubers. A lolzy thing on the threat list would be Whimsicott. Also, Quagsire is high on your threat list, lol.
  30. Fate/Dracoflare

    Fate/Dracoflare Kayneth Fried Circuits

    Messages:
    444
    Well,I just used mienshao as an example...you get my point though ...right?
  31. Wander

    Wander Shitty Wizard

    Messages:
    1,249
    Sorta breaking what I said about not posting anymore by writing this, but this is really lolzy.
    You don't HAVE a Skarmory, you don't HAVE a Giratina.
    So what Iceydude said about that #1 Aceus set is beyond correct, it fucks your team backwards and sideways.
    You named checks that you don't even HAVE, And don't say it's not a viable set because look, it's the most common set.

    K, now I'll resist posting here again.
  32. wilmer007

    wilmer007 New Member

    Messages:
    124
    Arceus with Magic Coat, Swords Dance, Shadow Claw, Extreme Speed gets owned by Dragon Tail from Giratina so Skarmory can taunt it before it comes back in and send it back out with whirlwind since it doesn't have Recover.

    Arceus with Magic Coat, Swords Dance, Shadow Claw, Earthquake still gets owned by Giratina - O

    Arceus with Magic Coat, Swords Dance, Shadow Claw, Brick Break still gets owned by my Kabutops cuz it has no ESpeed


    You see the problem is you guys are talking about what if situations against my team but it's no different then if it happened to your Arceus who didn't have Rain and Kabutops. That means if you want to completely shut down ANY Arceus you'll need Skarmory with Giratina AND Kabutops in Rain.

    This is what i was talking about in another thread made by minutemaid where i said that 2 equal skilled players the match comes down to who has the better team, who makes the right moves, and/or who has the better mind game skills. This happened to me when me and my friend when we where playing a match since i told him to make a new team built around countering my team (this being before i even had Azumarill which BTW it was this same friend who recommended i use Azumarill with Sap Sipper); so anyways then he can counter me (which he did) since i always beat him badly.

    So what ends up happening is that both players then have to basically play mind games on each other and whoever picked the better team would win because now my friend who completely countered my mono team now won't know if i'm gonna use the same team or a completely different one. Effectively negating skills period and all about who picked the right counter team while doing a fake out to his mind. In other words i can mind troll him and then he's screwed.

    So if Giratina has Dragon Tail Arceus loses and if Arceus with one of it's "Common Sets" doesn't have ESpeed then it loses to a Kabutops in Rain when up against a team packing Skarm and Giratina. If Giratina has Roar and no Dragon Tail than any Arceus with Shadow Claw and Magic bounce owns Giratina.

    So while you may have an awesome Arceus that may be uncounterable to your eyes theres always a flaw otherwise their would already be an ultimate god team with Skarm, Giratina, and Kabutops with Rain Dance and 3 other fillers that was already made that would be unstoppable and it would have already spread like wild fire since it completely shuts down any of the common Arceus sets packing Magic Coat.
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2011
  33. dhhaxmaster

    dhhaxmaster You've Been Haxed

    Messages:
    314
    Ok man look, I'm not going to yell or try to get sucked into this argument, but vicutini's right. RMT's are made to talk about your team not how a pokemon would fare against another opponent's team. This is not a suspect discussion about arceus. It's ok if you've faced magic coat arceus' on the ladder, (what advantage does it give toward the normal and proven SD set?) but that means either A) the ubers ladder lost a lot of good players B) people who use gimmicks will run that kinda stuff but believe it or not there are some people who actually run real teams, not little gimmicks or derps or noob. You're pretty much answering your own problem. Mono teams in ubers are part of that derp category in my opinion. If you still wanna run weather you definitely want manaphy, ferrothorn, kyogre, then you can keep your guys that can "beat arceus really well" Whatever it's your team you can do what you want. But you might wanna use this as a RMT thread not a suspect discussion. Please don't drag me into the argument I'm just trying to for lack of a better word knock some sense into you.
    A little delayed call there buddy. I can't help you with the troll factor though, I run hyper offense and nothing else.
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2011
  34. wilmer007

    wilmer007 New Member

    Messages:
    124
    I Understand and appreciate everyone's input. I was just stating my own defense to the metagame.

    Everyone including myself (from the beginning) already knows this is a Troll and get Owned Team where they get owned by UU/OU pokemon in which the team in general has a couple of flaws. If i know the flaws to the team and can accept those flaws for the lolz that the team is then that's my choice right and i'm fine with that.

    All i'm doing is helping out people who would otherwise look the otherway at this team and see that you can have fun with it and have their troll moments at the same time. Sort of like "Hey i'm bored of this top ranked team so let me grab a troll team and lolz the uber tier".


    Anyways let's just end it here and let's just get posts about people who use the team and like it type of posts.

    That way we don't keep going back and forth
  35. bobcat

    bobcat New Member

    Messages:
    26
    I get it. You make a team that is seriously flawed so that when you DO win, its very satisfying. However, this is an RMT. You are supposed to post teams here that you think are good to have them analyzed, criticized, and perhaps improved upon by the community. The community is identifying the flaws with your team and the fact that - against a solid player with a solid ubers team - it has virtually zero chance of winning consistently (hence the 1200 rating). If you don't want to improve the team or understand how it will actually fair against talented players, thats fine. But theres no reason to post it here. In fact, its contradictory to the whole purpose of this sub-forum to do so.
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