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The Best Sun Team (Beats Rain and Sand)

Discussion in 'Teams' started by Wxo, Jan 8, 2011.

Moderators: fitzy
  1. Wxo

    Wxo New Member

    Messages:
    42
    When it comes to weather sweeping, this team excels! Not only is it designed to fight and win weather wars, but its also designed to use your opponents weather against them. (If they use weather.) If your opponent doesn't use weather, just get ready for a nice fire sweep! If your weakness comes, not only are you readily prepared becuase of haven't coverage moves, but you have other strong non fire pokemon to cover them too.


    At a Glance

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    [secret]
    Ninetales (M) @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - SolarBeam
    - Flamethrower
    - Nasty Plot
    - Hidden Power [Ground]

    Kingdra (F) @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Waterfall
    - Substitute
    - Outrage
    - Dragon Dance

    Excadrill (M) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Sand Rush
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide
    - Rapid Spin

    Heatran (F) @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Earth Power
    - Fire Blast
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Stealth Rock

    Venusaur (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 52 HP / 252 SAtk / 204 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Sunny Day
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Giga Drain
    - Sludge Bomb

    Blaziken (M) @ Wide Lens
    Trait: Speed Boost
    EVs: 52 HP / 252 Atk / 204 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Protect
    - Swords Dance
    - Blaze Kick
    - Hi Jump Kick
    [/secret]

    The Team in Depth

    [​IMG]

    Ninetales (M) @ Balloon
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Nasty Plot
    - Flamethrower
    - SolarBeam
    - Hidden Power [Ground]


    Just like Most other sun teams, Ninetails is basically a must for for the sun. Ninetails is capable of one shotting any lead that doesn't resist fire with a flame thrower (or atleast heavily damage them.) . Even if they resist, it still 2HKOs most. Most of the time, ninatails becomes a late game fighter that brings the sun back for good.

    Balloon - Alot of players don't realize that the balloon is there because of the sun ability sorta distracting attention away from it. Also, Sun + Balloon eliminates all of Ninetails weaknesses. That almost guarantees he will survive an attack for a nastyplot. He outspeeds the majority of pokemon (except scarfed users and really fast pokemon such as alakazam and kadonjo)

    Alot of people question Solar Beam instead of weather ball. But the second I tested it, I noticed how many bulky water pokemon there were that needed to be one shotted. Milotic, That Water/ghost thingy that starts with a B, Vaporeon, Suicune, Cloister, starmie, ect, ect, ect. Nintails has decent speed (especially agaisnt those that don't use +spd natures.), so it can become a sweeper sometimes. (Most likely not though.)

    Yes, weather ball would have been good to use in some cases against other teams, but bulky water pokemon were more of a weak spot than weather teams.

    Normally, I don't switch in ninetails in weather wars. Venasuar and Moltres fight those for them. (Especially venasaur, whom loves to be ttars, that hippo thingy, and politoads worst nightmare.)

    The Hidden Power Ground Loves Dittos/Blazikens/Other Ninetails/Shanderas. (49 scarfed dittos where killed by this. Alot more of them were locked into Flamethrower for a kingdra/heatran switch in. It also takes care of Tentacreuls. (2 shots them with a nasty plot.) It also takes care of other fire pokemon. (Heat rans switchins that carry a ballon have to be solorbeamed first.)

    If the opponents lead is very weak to ninetails, use a nasty plot first. (For forestresses, use nastyplot - hidden power - flamethrower to avoid custap explode. You can spin the rocks later or absorb spikes with venasuar.

    [​IMG]

    Kingdra (F) @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Waterfall
    - Substitute
    - Outrage
    - Dragon Dance

    I'm pretty sure most of you get the reason kingdra is here, but I'll explain anyways. It doesn't only patch the many wholes in my sun team, but it also becomes DEADLY to rain teams. (Dory and kingdra both can do well against fire) Sand Teams normally smash on sun teams, but this also helps put a dent in their strategy. He loves any status inflicting pokemon because they normally give him 2 free dragon dances or a free substitue. (Lum and substitute.)

    Most rain teams carry a wall (usually that annoying grass/steel thingy) If you are locked into outrage, then it can possibly kill you. Most times you can get atleast half of its health down first. Normally, I switch in heatran and lay down the rocks. (Most times, they switchout. If not, fireblast em!)


    [​IMG]

    Doryuuzu (M) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Sand Throw
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide
    - Rapid Spin

    Hes basically here for the same reason kingdra is here, but for sand teams. He is a great switchin on ttar and an even better one on the hippo. I chose sash over balloon because there were too many fighting pokemon OHKOing him. I'd much rather have the guaranteed survival for a swords dance/rapid spin. If the sand team uses dory (mine normally outspeeds them because they either don't use jolly or lessen speed stats because they don't need them), just send in venasuar and turn on the sun.

    He also patches wholes this team has too, being able to survive fire with the sash. (Since when does ground not resist fire anyway? Ohh well..)

    [​IMG]

    Heatran (F) @ Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Earth Power
    - Fire Blast
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Stealth Rock

    Great speed, Lays rocks, Resists Dragons/Ice + unaffected by posion+fire. What more could you possibly ask for? The best part is that he is rarely one shotted even against water pokemon, especially when the sun is up.

    If you switch him in on a fire attack predict switch in, he can OHKO just about anything in the sun. Fireblast is the STAB while earth power and dragon pulse provide coverage. Its pretty much the standard heatran. Against any other heat ran/flash fire pokemon (which happens to be a huge disadvantage to my team), you have to hope you win the speed tie. Switchin kingdra (if shes still alive). Dory can usually take down heatran as long as you make sure you get rid of the balloon first. If they have rocks + flash fire at the same time before dory switch in, you are put at a major disadvantage. Its just one of the few flaws of this team. It has defenses against both, but isn't designed to take them both down at the same time.

    [​IMG]

    Venusaur (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 52 HP / 252 SAtk / 204 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Sunny Day
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Giga Drain
    - Sludge Bomb

    Hes the star of the team! Being able to OHKO grass/steels/water/ground/rock pokemon with super effective hits or OHKO/Heavily damage just about any other that doesn't resist all of his attacks. (He hates heatrans and is forced to be switched out. He is the main combatant of sand/rain teams besides dory and kingdra.

    He loves to giga drain them and replenish the health life orb inflicts. If they switch in + switch out, just turn the sun back on and force them back in. Normally, you can catch them trying to use a fire pokemon with a heatran switch in and lay down the rocks for them and earth power them if they don't outspeed.

    He is basically a weather war fighter/sweeper. Sludge bomb is the STAB while the others is for coverage.

    [​IMG]

    Blaziken (M) @ Wide Lens
    Trait: Speed Boost
    EVs: 52 HP / 252 Atk / 204 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Protect
    - Swords Dance
    - Blaze Kick
    - Hi Jump Kick

    This pokemon replaced moltes in my last set. Wide lens is one of the most under estimated items in the game. Why? Becuase blaziken hasn't missed a high jump kick or blaze kick since I've used him. Normally, I'd switch him in on a predicted switchout. (things like skarmory, nattorei, heatran, ect) On their switchout, thats your chance to swords dance.

    After 1 swords dance, he is set to sweep just about ANYTHING in one shot. Even dragons are OHKOed by a blaze kick. They'd better have some sort of ditto miricle planned for him, or others wise its game.

    I haven't gotten to test weather blaze kick or high jump kick was higher damage, but both are reliable STAB moves.

    A debatable switch would be claw sharpen instead of wide lens/swords dance.


    Noteable team defenses/weaknesses
    + takes care of toxic spikes with venasuar
    + venasuar resists rocks and is strong against all opposing weather bringers
    - thunderwave stall can be a problem for this team if you don't like switching alot
    - has nothing for screens becuase I'd rather have high jump kick on blaziken than brick break
    + Kingdra can switch in on status problems, venasuar can switch in on toxic.
    - Kingdra waterfall is weakened by the sun if its up
    + 3 physical attackers/3 special attackers
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 27, 2011
  2. Dark Trinity

    Dark Trinity New Member

    Messages:
    109
    I suggest Energy Ball on Ninetales rather than Solarbeam because a weather switch-in will keep you locked in Solarbeam. I don't think Kingdra and Doryuuzu are needed, because if the opponent does not have a Sand or Rain team, they're pretty useless. Blaziken is completely walled by Burungeru; I suggest you replace Protect with Rock Slide. Venusaur really needs Growth, which boosts your attack and special attack by +2 in the sun. Sunny Day is not needed for him since he doesn't even have a Heat Rock. Sand and Rain pokemon do not belong in a Sun team.
  3. Wxo

    Wxo New Member

    Messages:
    42
    To be honest, I've tested every single one of your suggestions already. I can say with full confidence that the set above is better. (except growth)
    Please test the team first.
  4. Galblade

    Galblade FAT PRINCESS

    Messages:
    1,416
    Try Chople berry on Dory instead of sash. Its useless having your spinner lose his sash before he spins.
  5. Dark Trinity

    Dark Trinity New Member

    Messages:
    109
    I did not test the team, but I am confident that Energy Ball is more reliable than SolarBeam. If a pokemon like Politoed switches in, you'll be trapped in Solarbeam, thus allowing the opponent to quickly end the weather war with a Hydro Pump.
  6. Wxo

    Wxo New Member

    Messages:
    42
    @ galblade

    Thanks! After testing it, works much better theres been countless times rocks broke mah poor sash.

    @ Dark Trinity

    Politoed is normally a lead. If it isn't a lead, there isn't really a need for solar beam. Why? Becuase there aren't many teams that lead with a grass weakness + have a rain team. It hasn't happened to me before int he 500+ battles I've had with this team. At most, politoed switched in on a resisted flamethrower. In that case, I switch in venasuar on the predicted water attack. (i'm telling you this because I've don'e this 50+ times)

    Then, venasuar turns on the sun while politoad normally ice beams or switches out for a resist. Thats when venasuar giga drains (usually switched out for a nattorie, which is common for rain teams). I've actually counted 76 nattories OHKOed by vensuars hidden power fire. Thats when poli toad comes back in to bring the rain, and he turns the sun right back on while it ice beams. Then you rinse and repeat. If they don't switch out politoad, then it dies.

    I've done this so many times, I'm telling you this from memory. Please test the team before suggesting anything else ;).
  7. Dark Trinity

    Dark Trinity New Member

    Messages:
    109
    I have tested your team, now that I have time. As I said before, Sunny Day is not needed on Venusaur. Growth would be a considerable replacement for it. Sunny Day will only last about five turns without a Heat Rock, so it's not so useful. Blaziken is completely walled by Burungeru, as Blaze Kick and HJK will nothing to it. Hope I helped ^^
  8. Wxo

    Wxo New Member

    Messages:
    42
    I'm sure if you tested it, you'd see that sunny day is very necessary for venasuar - especially for weather wars. (I'm sure you've ran across rain and sand teams) When he unsuspectatantly turns the sun back on, that forces them to switch out and back in to get their weather back. You not only get 2 attacks for that one, but you get that fire boost and water resistance. Heatrock isn't necensary, as I can just turn the sun right back on 5 turns later. By the time venasuar dies, the opponent has gone out of their way to kill it, then switch they eather back in. When they do that, I use their weather agaisnt them vbyu swithcing in the weather sweeper.

    Blaziken is indeed walled by that water ghost and gyrados (which are only 2 pokemon that aren't very common.), but I have 5 other pokemon for that matter. every single one of blazikens moves are all too important to get rid of for a simple coverage.if need be, I'd sacrifice blaziken for ninetails to switch back in and set up, as the sun will let him survive the weak water attack or get a free nasty plot.

    I'd might consider increasing speed to max while replacing protect, but I can't get rid of any of his other attacks.
  9. coolguy31337

    coolguy31337 Amor Fati

    Messages:
    387
    Don't use ninetales as a lead, and don't use ninetales as a sweeper. Here's the main reason - it benefits your team much more to have permanent sun up (except kingdra) and ninetales with max speed is horribly vulnerable to Tyranitar. The best set would probably have investment along the lines of 92 HP / 252 SAtk / 164 Spd, which gives you reasonable bulk and still allows you to outspeed Doryuuzu in the sun. Look, right now your Ninetales is quite literally a sitting duck against sand teams, particularly ones with Tyranitar. Banded tyranitar will flat out KO you with pursuit on the switch, and if Tyranitar switches in on a solarbeam, that's a free stone edge right there. As such, it's best to replace Solarbeam with Energy Ball, and also to replace Nasty Plot with Will-o-Wisp to catch Tyranitar on the switch.

    Next, Kingdra is fine if your opponent is running rain or sand, but sun reduces the power of Waterfall, which means your only real attacking move on Kingdra in the sun is Outrage; nerfing your own pokemon in your own weather is never an advantage. There are plenty of bulky waters in OU that check rain teams well; you could also try using nattorei.

    Doryuuzu simply needs any item other than Focus Sash, especially as a spinner. Chople probably works fine.

    I'd add just a bit more Speed investment on Venusaur, give it 220 Speed EVs so it can outrun Scarfchomp in the Sun. Your current Speed investment only allows you to speed tie +1 Base 100s in the sun, and you should at least try to beat those pokes.
  10. Stunt

    Stunt New Member

    Messages:
    125
    Ninetales is best off with a power herb solarbeam.
    Those politoed's will shiver.

    Loving the wide lens on blaziken btw. Hawt stuff.

    Kingdra on a sun team? If the opponent is a sandstorm team, its gg.

    the "beats sandstorm and rain team" in your title should be changed to, beats any sandstorm and rain team who are created by illogical users.
    yeah id like that title.

    I'd kick heatran off the team, because nothing is going to throw fire against your fire team.
  11. Harry

    Harry Banned

    Messages:
    707
    Sash dory is a terrible idea, but also. If you want to beat Sand, use a Gliscor ;)
  12. Wxo

    Wxo New Member

    Messages:
    42
    With the balloon, Ninetails Ges a free nasty plot. Ninetails also already is reasonably bulk because both of its weakenesses are covered. (It can with stand all water attacks except hydro pump in the sun, and the ballon takes care of the ground.)

    I can't explain this enough, but ninetails doesn't get caught in a forced solarbeam often. Even if it does, they normally switch the pokemon right back out because they don't want their weather to die. (All weathers are weak against solarbeam.) Since the speed is higher, they know it will attack first. Basically, I get a free attack. Normally, the opposing team starts off with their weather too. Against sand with the balloon, I get a free nasty plot. Against ttar, I'd use hidden power ground. Against the hippo, I'd switch in kingdra. Because of kingdra's defense, it can withstand it. Tahts when kingdra attacks with an unsuppressed waterfall before it dies. Thats when I send in venasuar. More than likely, they will switch it out for something else. Thats when Venasuar brings the sun back up. (Usually its for nattorie) Thats when venasuar (normally) OHKOes that pokemon and they switch it back in. I use sunny day again, or maybe giga drain it. Then, he gets in a sunny day and 1 attack before he dies. Thats when I switch in heatran and set up the rocks. I do as much damage as I can with heatran. (Noramlly, they take this time out to switch weather again, and that when I send in their weather sweeper that devastates their team until I bring the sun back up.

    A choice scarfed ttar would indeed be a problem for ninetails, but not only are they not common, but I'd just switch in venasuar, or better yet, dory. I'd get a free swords dance on the switch out, and I'd sweep away until something stops it. (thats IF anything stops it.) On top of that, I still ahve sunny day on venasuar (which little to no people expect.)

    Heatran is a great switchin on shandera as a steel and people throw fire against venasuar and dory 24/7. Alot of times

    As for swapping dory and kingdra out for bulky sand and water fighters, I'm more than willing to try that. Could someone post the exports for them? I'd really like to try it. Preferably, I'd like atleast one of them to spin rocks. I'm also willing to add a bit more speed to venasuar as suggested as well.
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2011
  13. Babis493

    Babis493 New Member

    Messages:
    82
    That is a really weird team,by utilizing 3 weather sweepers from different teams...
    But it kinda works with a bit of prediction,to be honest.
    Btw,i <3 that ninetails picture at the top!!!
  14. coolguy31337

    coolguy31337 Amor Fati

    Messages:
    387
    While solarbeam ninetales might work somewhere lower on the ladder, it simply will stop working as you go up. First, Balloon doesn't cover ninetales' Rock weakness. Second, Ninetales simply does not have the bulk to take multiple water moves even in the sun, and it's balloon is unlikely to last forever. Even then, balloon in no way guarantees a free nasty plot anyway. Third, Solarbeam is half-power in any weather other than sun, which means that really none of the opposing weathermon will fear it; in fact, none of the weathermon are KO'd at even +2 and each can OHKO back (I'm ignoring abomasnow because it's rarely seen). HP Ground won't even KO ttar while it can easily KO back; in the meanwhile, Kingdra can't do much to hippo except get roar'd out if it tries to set up. Even if Venusaur can set up the sun again, it's extremely short, giving another pokemon at most 3 turns to utilize it, and even then the opposing team will probably just set up their own weather. Given that every team prepares against Dory and Kingdra, trying to sweep with them is not very reliable.

    Even if Ninetales doesn't get trapped into solarbeam, Ninetales completely dies if ttar switches in. Pursuit will either KO if banded, or leave it with less than 25% on the next switch in if SR is up. Ninetales literally can't do anything to ttar. HP Ground won't even 4KO a majority of the time, which means it won't 2KO even after a nasty plot boost; this also means that you'd need to get to +6 to even have a 1/8 chance of an OHKO.
  15. Wxo

    Wxo New Member

    Messages:
    42
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2011
  16. Deadgye

    Deadgye New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Looks like my old team would have been a lot of trouble for you, lol. But then again we both thought of the awesome idea of using Dory and Kingdra on the same team. (I ran with scarftar/dory/scarftoed/kingdra/abomasnow/scarfgenesect)

    Going through your team I should probably change my kingdra to yours, I for some reason never thought of using sub+lum.

    As for your logs, you have to upload them onto the internet somewhere, can't just link to your c drive when we don't have access to it. :3
  17. Greendemon

    Greendemon New Member

    Messages:
    1
    I use this team, but i switched 2 pokemon out the doryuuzu and the... Kingdra. Personally even with them on this team is almost unstoppable. I've rarely seen anyone beat me so far.. because of me thinking. Before you try this team think of straghtegies i use to just go for good teams but i didnt know wtf to do, so i ended up making the team look like shit.. when it had potential lol. But thanks for this, i love the Venasaur, however thunderwave is quite annoying. However i still phased through it, pretty much this team should be kept away from noobs to be honest. I mean without the mind, this team would SUCKKK.
  18. fidgety

    fidgety New Member

    Messages:
    1,538
    blaze needs a third attacking move edge maybe as the wide lense (i agree it is definitely underapreciated my aianto on my uu team uses it to help off set hustle it is amazing) boosting it's acuracy to 88%.
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